Control Panel Design advice (Work in Progress)

[lord-jaffa]

So ive been editing out theob42's design that he kindly provided, however im unsure as to how to proceed on the Trackball Area, I want some more bubble bobble themed stuff but am having trouble finding high enough res images!

Also would like peoples opinions on if/where I should add 2 trackball buttons? (if even needed!) I'm using 8 buttons since ill be having alot of console emulation (basically anything I can find!)

Id like to keep the admin buttons as they are kinda handy for ease of use (Using hyperspin).

Anyone have any advice?

[bkenobi]

Layout looks fine to me as do the graphics (nice work).  I do have a question is about the joystick graphics, though.  I assume you are lining the center 2 joysticks up so that up is aligned with the larger diamond in the foreground.  Are the outer players' joysticks also lined up this way?  It appears that they would be based on the way you have not rotated the graphics.  If that's your intent, that seems a bit awkward.  If they are rotated from the center positions so that up is aligned with the buttons (as would typically be done), then your graphics are a bit confusing.

I'd rotate the diamond and square for the outer position joysticks to eliminate any potential confusion.  It would look better that way too, IMO.

[lord-jaffa]

Layout looks fine to me as do the graphics (nice work).  I do have a question is about the joystick graphics, though.  I assume you are lining the center 2 joysticks up so that up is aligned with the larger diamond in the foreground.  Are the outer players' joysticks also lined up this way?  It appears that they would be based on the way you have not rotated the graphics.  If that's your intent, that seems a bit awkward.  If they are rotated from the center positions so that up is aligned with the buttons (as would typically be done), then your graphics are a bit confusing.

I'd rotate the diamond and square for the outer position joysticks to eliminate any potential confusion.  It would look better that way too, IMO.

I understand what you mean, the joystick graphics for P3/P4 are aligned so that Up is Up (ie towards the screen), the edges of the graphic are meant to symbolise the directions of play.

[Nephasth]

Layout looks fine to me as do the graphics (nice work).  I do have a question is about the joystick graphics, though.  I assume you are lining the center 2 joysticks up so that up is aligned with the larger diamond in the foreground.  Are the outer players' joysticks also lined up this way?  It appears that they would be based on the way you have not rotated the graphics.  If that's your intent, that seems a bit awkward.  If they are rotated from the center positions so that up is aligned with the buttons (as would typically be done), then your graphics are a bit confusing.

I'd rotate the diamond and square for the outer position joysticks to eliminate any potential confusion.  It would look better that way too, IMO.

I understand what you mean, the joystick graphics for P3/P4 are aligned so that Up is Up (ie towards the screen), the edges of the graphic are meant to symbolise the directions of play.

That seems to be the preferred way of mounting/playing P3/P4 joysticks, but it is a debated issue.

But why 6 buttons for P3/P4?

[Malenko]

vectorize bub and bob, then you can scale it without loss of quality.

[lord-jaffa]

Layout looks fine to me as do the graphics (nice work).  I do have a question is about the joystick graphics, though.  I assume you are lining the center 2 joysticks up so that up is aligned with the larger diamond in the foreground.  Are the outer players' joysticks also lined up this way?  It appears that they would be based on the way you have not rotated the graphics.  If that's your intent, that seems a bit awkward.  If they are rotated from the center positions so that up is aligned with the buttons (as would typically be done), then your graphics are a bit confusing.

I'd rotate the diamond and square for the outer position joysticks to eliminate any potential confusion.  It would look better that way too, IMO.

I understand what you mean, the joystick graphics for P3/P4 are aligned so that Up is Up (ie towards the screen), the edges of the graphic are meant to symbolise the directions of play.

That seems to be the preferred way of mounting/playing P3/P4 joysticks, but it is a debated issue.

But why 6 buttons for P3/P4?

To tell you the truth I havent got around to editing P3/4 buttons, I was considering leaving them due to the possibilitys of needing them for N64 games (mario kart etc) and a just in case scenario.

For the most part its the Bubble Bubble section im having issues with! I can't decide if it looks ok the way it is and if its just going to look crowded if I put some of the other characters from it there.

Also the admin buttons need changing, I dont need a Menu and admin button, since they are the same, so im considering moving all three over to the P1 side.

[Malenko]

they need some sort of bubble bobble themed background art behind them instead of just black

[bkenobi]

So is position 1/4 up vertical or 45°?  I would assume they would be angled since that would create an awkward playing position with the buttons angled.  If so (and I think that's the "normal" way of doing a 4 player curved panel), I'd still rotate the joystick graphics so they were consistent with the other player positions.

As for N64...unless those are analog sticks (U360 for example), you will not be happy with them for playing those games IMO.  I have 7 buttons with a digital stick per player and absolutely HATED N64 with that config.  I picked up a couple Logitech Rumblepads and they are very good for almost all console games.  They do not match the N64 controls for things like Golden Eye, but who would expect that!

Overall, it looks really nice!

[lord-jaffa]

3/4 are both angled directly up, so the sticks will be all set the same way (Up, down, left, right). Ive done this because it seems unnatural to play with the sticks angled differently from the directions on the screen and its how i remembered the old arcade games being (simpsons and tmnt!) As for their buttons, im considering just using 4, but this might mess with the uniform of the graphics if the buttons are all angled weird!

As for the bubble bobble artwork, ive been trying to rasterise some of the images but not having much luck so far!

[lord-jaffa]

I found some great artwork that id like to try but im unable to vectorise or rasterise it for some reason, anyone able to give it a shot?

http://fav.me/d1083es

[Turnarcades]

If you want to see how others are doing 4 player panels, then check out some of our 4 player machines. You'll notice that we use 6 buttons for the centre players and 4 for the outer players for the same reason you mention about playing console games; 6 really is plenty for most games (even PS1 & N64 where many buttons originally weren't often used or could be remapped) and with the outer players, this is truer still as multiplayer games tend to be simpler still (most arcade games 2/3 will do, very few used 4, multiplayer console games rarely used more). With regards to the sticks, angled sticks have never been a problem for us, customers or show attendees so if you did decide that you'd be safe.

Our layout is obviously not for everyone's needs but obviously we have a lot of experience and feedback to work from so have decided our default layout covers most bases. Certain things like extra admin buttons are also normal for us and we use a coin button forceach player which obviously helps with console emulators, but they're a good reference point even if you don't have these features. The way we position our spinner and trackball is also worth noting as although they simply seem to be fitted in convenient spaces, the trackball position offers most space around it, and the spinner is placed so that the hand and arm rests in a space free of controls whether left or right handed.

For the best close-up pictures see our facebook page or YouTube videos.

[bkenobi]

So you are saying the Red arrows, right?  I would think the blue arrows would be more comfortable considering the button orientation.  It just seems awkward if the buttons are angled and the joystick is 45° off.   

[Turnarcades]

I'm saying the blue arrows, as much as people disagree. When people refer to joysticks being 'angled', they usually mean in relation to the screen, as I did.

[lord-jaffa]

So you are saying the Red arrows, right?  I would think the blue arrows would be more comfortable considering the button orientation.  It just seems awkward if the buttons are angled and the joystick is 45° off.   

Yes the red arrows are how I intend to angle the joysticks, its how ive always played them in the arcades and I find it more natural, after all pressing UP/RIGHT to move Up on the actual screen just doesnt seem right to me. I remember TMNT and Simpsons being this way so its how I prefer it, I move the stick the way that I see the character moving on the screen!

Anyway I have a little update, I managed to vectorise the artwork I found, (VectorMagic is waaaaay superiour to illustrator for this). The red admin buttons will be removed and I havent finished the outline for the middle graphics yet (or changed P3/P4 to 4 buttons)

[quarterstringer]

There doesn't seem to be enough wrist/palm area on that control panel. I don't like feeling the edge of the cp, so my cp has 7 inches from the bottom of the joystick/buttons to the bottom edge of the cp. Check out the control panels on this page. Most of them allow plenty of room between the joystick/buttons and the bottom edge.

[bkenobi]

When a 4 player CP is flat along the edge so all 4 players shoulders are lined up, it is common for the joystick and buttons to all line up like the red arrows.  Typically, if the CP is curved and the buttons are angled like yours are, I think it's standard to have the joystick line up with the buttons.

I have never tried playing with the joystick rotated like that, but it just seems like it would feel awkward to move in those directions (45° right or left rotated) to move the players for games like SF.  The alternative would be for the players to be facing the screen rather than rotating their body to align with the inputs.  If they do that, then the button angle would be a bit awkward since players' fingers would not naturally line up with the buttons.

I highly recommend building a test CP out of cardboard or scrap plywood before you finalize the rotated design.  If it works out, sweet!  The thing that would suck is finding out it hurts players' wrists after you've spent the time and money to put the CP together!  What would be worse would be having an unfair advantage for positions 2 and 3 that kept friends from wanting to play.  What's the point of a 4 player CP that doesn't get used since it's unfair!

Either way, I really like how the graphics are coming along.  Nice work!   

[lord-jaffa]

There doesn't seem to be enough wrist/palm area on that control panel. I don't like feeling the edge of the cp, so my cp has 7 inches from the bottom of the joystick/buttons to the bottom edge of the cp. Check out the control panels on this page. Most of them allow plenty of room between the joystick/buttons and the bottom edge.

That is a very good point, ive adjusted it so that there is approx 4.5 inches between the bottom of the joystick and the edge of the control panel, does seem to work out better, ive also moved the trackball up a little bit.

I was wondering if its worth having 2 buttons for the trackball also? It would be nice to have full mouse control on the panel and I don't mind the extra buttons and cost isn't an issue.

There is a few other jobs to do, finalise the admin buttons, decide on 4 or 6 buttons for Player 3/4, dim the bubble bobble section slightly so it doesnt stand out so much!

[quarterstringer]

ive also moved the trackball up a little bit.

If you're using player 1's buttons for trackball games, it might feel awkward having the trackball that high. I like the trackball placement and the spacing between players on this 4p panel. But allowing that much space between P1 and P2 will make you change your graphics.

[lord-jaffa]

Yeah decided to add designated buttons for trackball, changed the graphics some also today!

[lord-jaffa]

Mario or Spiderman?