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Author Topic: My Paint Job Looks Terrible  (Read 7532 times)

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stalemate

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My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« on: October 24, 2011, 11:01:55 pm »
I am to the painting stage of my cab and mostly it has gone pretty well but I'm having some issue with the black metallic paint I am trying to use for the last coat of paint before the clear.

My cabinet is made of plywood and I used a spray high build primer to get the surface smooth, then I put on a couple coats of Rustoleum Flat Black. At that stage everything looked great but then I tried to do the metallic.

I am using the Rustoleum Black Night metallic cans of paint as seen here: http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=30

I started with my flat black and sanded it down smooth and then I put a coat of the metallic on, waited about 20 minutes and then put another coat on. Here is what it looks like now:



When any light hits it, the paint has those streaks. I just put the 2 coats on yesterday so it had been about 30 hours since painting when that picture was taken.

I've seen streaks like this in my flat black coats early on just from uneven coverage, but these also have a different texture. The streaks that show a lighter color in this picture are a rougher texture and the darker, glossier parts are a smooth texture. It kind of seems like the lighter colored spots went on more "airy" or dryer or something (I'm a noob so it is hard to explain). The rougher spots seem to flake off somewhat in my hand if I rub my finger tips over them and apply any pressure at all.

Any advice here? I can see it being a few different things:
1 - I just need to put on some more coats
2 - There is something wrong with my technique
3 - This is perfectly normal and there is some other step I need to take to even it out or something (rubbing it with something? I don't really know, just speculating).


What should I do? If I have to strip this metallic off, I will probably just go back to a flat black and call it good. And I don't really want to spray more metallic on there just hoping that it is going to look right later, but if I felt any confidence that more coats would fix it, I would be all for it.

I play to apply a clear coat over this whole thing if that affects the advice any.

Thanks for reading!

Grimoz

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 11:21:02 pm »
Use a small roller instead of spray, thats what I used on mine and it came out really good.

mytymaus007

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 11:23:25 pm »
are those waves in the wood hi and low spots

lilshawn

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 11:24:05 pm »
Ive found metallic spray bombs need a really heavy coat to look decent. I would agree with rolling. Spray tends to drip and sag when you put it on thick.

stalemate

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 11:26:46 pm »
No, no waves in the wood, the wood is nice and flat and looked great before the metallic went on. I think what you are seeing is the effect of the light shining differently from the different textures I ended up with from the metallic paint.

Is there rollable metallic paint? I've never seen it, but that doesn't mean much. I'd be ok with rolling on a coat of metallic.

AlienInferno

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 11:42:34 pm »
I found this link where a guy talks about painting a model rocket with the stuff.  Not really much detail but it gives a few tips and techniques.  Mainly more common sense stuff but it might help you out.

http://www.skypirate.net/rocketry/con_paint_01.htm

404

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 09:59:05 am »
As others have said here, i would encourage the use of a roller. If you are absolutely dead set on having a metallic finish, I would go ahead and try getting a small bit of metallic automotive paint, add plenty of reducer and give that a shot using a fine roller. My only concern would be that the metallic particles are heavier than the rest of the paint and may essentially coagulate or clot to one side of the roller due to gravity. It may work though.

If you can't get any automotive paint, you may be able to puncture a few cans of what you have been using as long as you can make a sealed container to puncture the can in as they are under pressure. Never tried it myself, It's just an idea in my head but it just might work.

ChadTower

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 10:24:31 am »

Some spray paints look like that after a couple coats.  Keep up with thin coats, 15-20 apart like you did, but do a bunch of them.  The solvents on the paint will probably blend the coats together after 4-5 coats and those lines will go away.  Then mist lighter coats if you need more coverage.  I would probably sand that back down to even, now that you have let it cure, before doing more coats.

dithrin

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 10:40:16 am »
i have not used them personally, but all of the reviews for the metallic paint says to stay away,  uneven coverage life you are experiencing and also not durable,  the clear top coat should take care of the durability though, and as the above poster said i would try more coats close together 15-20 minutes and hope that will even it out.

Good luck

please let us know how that works.  I am going to be painting my cab soon and was curious to use the metallic paint in a few spots as well but was going to shy away from the reviews i read.

404

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 10:50:06 am »

Some spray paints look like that after a couple coats.  Keep up with thin coats, 15-20 apart like you did, but do a bunch of them.  The solvents on the paint will probably blend the coats together after 4-5 coats and those lines will go away.  Then mist lighter coats if you need more coverage.  I would probably sand that back down to even, now that you have let it cure, before doing more coats.

normally that wouldn't be a problem. This time around however, he is using metallic paint. Sanding metallic paints is a major no-no. Sanding will dull the metallic flakes or completely remove it.

stalemate

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 12:03:10 pm »
Maybe sanding the metallic wouldn't be a big problem if I was going to go back over it with more? Would the dulling/discoloration issue get covered up by the next coat?

404

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 12:35:19 pm »
Maybe sanding the metallic wouldn't be a big problem if I was going to go back over it with more? Would the dulling/discoloration issue get covered up by the next coat?

If you are starting over, it wont be a problem. Honestly, i had the same issue as you with some semi gloss black that i used on a piece of furniture that the old lady wanted painted. I just couldn't figure out for the life of me why it did that. I live in Florida USA so at first i thought it was the humidity that caused it. I could never really figure it out. That's why i suggested the roll on method.

ChadTower

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2011, 12:37:44 pm »
If you are starting over, it wont be a problem.


This.  My advice was to pretty much start over without actually sanding it completely clean.

stalemate

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2011, 12:53:39 pm »
I wondered about the humidity too. I'm in Arkansas and it gets pretty humid here.

My spray coats of flat black have looked great, so if I scrap the metallic I'll likely just stick with that and then clear coat it. Would a clear coat make the flat black nice and shiny or would I need to use a gloss paint?

I might try going over with another coat or two of metallic and see if it gets better (just on one side as a test) and if it doesn't get better just sand it off and go back to flat black.

404

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2011, 01:54:51 pm »
I wondered about the humidity too. I'm in Arkansas and it gets pretty humid here.

My spray coats of flat black have looked great, so if I scrap the metallic I'll likely just stick with that and then clear coat it. Would a clear coat make the flat black nice and shiny or would I need to use a gloss paint?

I might try going over with another coat or two of metallic and see if it gets better (just on one side as a test) and if it doesn't get better just sand it off and go back to flat black.

Clear coating flat black will give it almost like a sub flat/satin finish. Kind of like how the hot-rodders of old (or the newer ricer) car enthusiasts paint their cars.

http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/magazine-stuff/satin-black/17059075/satin-black-vinyl-car.jpg

Chances are you can find some paint manufacturers do make a satin black but most of the time it requires mixing. You would be best to just go with the roll on method.

stalemate

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 02:48:08 pm »
If I roll on some black paint (not metallic), what kind of paint do I need in order to get a nice shiny finish after clear coating? I don't know what finish to tell the paint mixer guy at the store. :)

404

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 03:59:38 pm »
If I roll on some black paint (not metallic), what kind of paint do I need in order to get a nice shiny finish after clear coating? I don't know what finish to tell the paint mixer guy at the store. :)

Depends on the gloss of the first coat. If you like the satin finish that was mentioned above, i know for sure that rust-oleum does sell satin black in spray can form. You could always just buy one can and give it a shot on a piece of scrap wood. If you don't like the way it turns out or if its giving you the same problems like your metallic coat, you can get another black finish.

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2011, 06:28:25 pm »
The problem with car bodywork paints in aerosol cans is that they only tend to go uniform on the intended surface (prepared metal) with a fair bit of skill involved. Regardless of the prep work, applying it to wood will usually always end up like this, likely because of the propellant additive to the aerosol cans. Getting a good finish with automotive paint is possible, but usually only with very good prep work and application by a proper air gun, where no propellant is involved and you can ensure uniform coverage. You may need to start again if you want an acceptable finish.

cmarion1024

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 03:45:36 pm »
From an automotive finish stand point, metallic is very hard to do correct.  Its best to use an air HVLP gun for metallic.  Metallic spray paints have the most aerosol propellant per volume of any spray paint, because of the weight of the metallic specs. (Hence why huffers who sniff spray paint buy metallic).  Using a can sucks.  Period. Its not really intended for a huge area without looking like garbage. If you are spraying with the panel vertical, the metallic will go down with gravity to the wettest portion of the paint. Different paint requires different technique, but you have to factor in the air drying the paint before it hits the target.  In the automotive world its air pressure.  To much causes a cloudy overspray look, because the paint is being pushed with so much air its forcing it to begin to dry midstream. Easiest way to explain.  Spray to close and it will run.  Yours looks like overspray from being to far away. I don't know how much you have left to do a test area, but try this.  Take a can and do a uniform spray from left to right. Start off the left edge and continue till you go off the right edge.  Over lap by half when going from right to left, again begin spraying before you touch the target and stop after you leave it.  Do maybe two feet top to bottom like this, do not wait for it to fully dry.  Give it like five minutes and go again.  See if you can get the paint to mold together before it has a chance to dry and cover evenly.

If you are dead set on metallic, go to Harbor Freight (or whatever your equivalent is) and get their gravity fed spray gun, very easy to use. http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html       <=- this has no regulator attached, if you need one there is a model with one. Or buy an external.

Go to your local automotive paint supplier and get the color you want.  They will advise you whats best and if you need additives.  Dont buy the most expensive paint, you arent doing a show car.  Personally for this I would get single stage, it contains your base coat(the metallic black) and top coat (clear) in one.  (If they do that there) You will have a reducer to add in to it.  When you add the thinner or reducer, it doubles your total quantity.  So a half gallon will turn into one whole gallon in the end.  You will lose some with air, so half gallon should be good.   Use two good primer coats for the paint to bond to, wipe off excess dust or dried primer dust from being airborn with a rag and acetone, and begin to spray.  Wait 24 hours, and your done.  You can wet sand with 1500 grit sand paper and buff with compound if you want too.  Make sure to put acetone in your paint cup of the gun before and after spraying to get any contaminents out.  You can also adjust your spray pattern (fan) before painting.  Spray about 12-15 inches away from your target, using the same method I told you for using a can.  This route  you could do the left side, then do the right side, go back to the left side and back to the right side and you should be good.  The clear will float to the top.  This may cost you with paint and gun $80.  Sounds like a lot, but metallic spray cans are what $5 a pop? And turns out like that.

Rolling metallic for the most part, does do what was mentioned. It wont lay easily and evenly off a roller.  The plus of using the automotive paint is you can choose a metallic color from what ever make of cars you want.  What ever you pick, do not use GM/Chevy/Pontiac/GMC.  Their black is actually a brown when hit with a flash light at night.  Its not really black.  Understand though, the more expensive the manufacturer the paint will follow.  So Mercedes color paint will be more expensive because the cheaper brand may not have the available ingredients required to produce that color that the expensive end does.  As long as you do a good job using primer as your base, it should adhere. Im not a fan of using filler primer, its intended for spots not an entire area.

EDIT: **WARNING** If you use an HVLP gun to paint with, where a respirator or mask with filters.  Not those dust masks you see the Chinese wearing in every photo.  Harbor freight has a decent one that will suffice for about $15.  You will die from fumes if not.  
 http://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-66554.html    <=- this will give you about five different times or painting worth of clean air before the filters are clogged.  Works great for sanding with an electric/air orbital too.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 04:01:12 pm by cmarion1024 »

stalemate

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2011, 11:53:56 pm »
Just to update in case anyone comes across this and wonders what I ended up with...

I eventually gave up on spraying all together. I got a gallon of black paint and rolled it on. I don't know if I had bad technique, bad paint, bad weather, whatever, but the spray thing was costing me a lot of time and effort and not turning out right.

Oh well, I am past it now. My paint job looks pretty good but I did scuff it up a little bit getting it up the stairs. I'll have to touch it up some after I am done messing with it to install stuff.

I still have to finish out and paint my CP box but it should go much, much faster since I know what not to do now.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Well Fed Games

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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 08:48:24 am »


I eventually gave up on spraying all together. I got a gallon of black paint and rolled it on. I don't know if I had bad technique, bad paint, bad weather, whatever, but the spray thing was costing me a lot of time and effort and not turning out right.



I am in the same boat. I bought a sprayer, quality paint, etc, but cannot get good coats (I end up sanding off most of it in the end). From now on, I am rolling it on with the exception of the occasional black spray paint- and my next project is going to use laminate!

Great to see the progress!  :cheers:
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Re: My Paint Job Looks Terrible
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2011, 04:18:58 pm »
I wonder if alternating vertical and then horizontal sweeps would help? Of course, in your case, the question is moot.