Opinions On Including Atari 2600 Games?

[wizkid32]

I am building an arcade machine project in bits and pieces, and have finished the cabinet.  I am trying to get the software portion up and running while I work on wiring the controls.   My question is this: Should I include Atari 2600 games in addition to arcade games?  Please share your opinions and reasoning!

What I think thus far:

PROS:
Easy to legally obtain.
Simple controls.
Quite a few arcade-style games.

CONS:
Not really arcade quality.
Game "Modes" are irritating!


I apologize if there is another post concerning this, but I couldn't find it.

PS. Also open to other early game systems that have arcade-style games!

[Howard_Casto]

I would say no. 

As you probably already know, Atari was an arcade manufacturer first and then went on to create the 2600. 

90% of your atari games have a arcade equivelent that is vastly superior. 

As for the ones that don't..... well..... the 2600 hasn't aged well.    Most of the "games" offter 30 seconds to 5 minutes of gameplay at the most before they become dull as hell.  Combat! of course being the exception. 

[SavannahLion]

I would say no. 

As you probably already know, Atari was an arcade manufacturer first and then went on to create the 2600. 

90% of your atari games have a arcade equivelent that is vastly superior. 

As for the ones that don't..... well..... the 2600 hasn't aged well.    Most of the "games" offter 30 seconds to 5 minutes of gameplay at the most before they become dull as hell.  Combat! of course being the exception. 

I say no but I'd like to expand on what was quoted.

To be honest, I think it's absurd to put console games into a cabinet just as I think it's absurd to put (most) arcade games into a console based unit.

Arcade games are specifically designed to earn the operator money. In other words, they're designed to entice you (the player) to drop a quarter (or two or four) of your limited funds into a game that is just easy enough to entrap you but just hard enough to ensure that you either A) feed more quarters in to continue playing (Gauntlet) or B) wander off and feed more quarters into another machine to let player B (not you) also feed quarters into the machine. There's nothing quite the same as hearing the kachunk! of that last quarter landing in the bin and striving to see how far you can get. That enticement and challenge goes away as soon as you use a button to virtually "pump in quarters" without limit.

Console games are designed to be played at home without the need to "feed" the machine. Therefor, the game developers needed to create an entirely different way to entice you to keep playing the game for as long as possible. Either by creating a party game (Combat or Warlords), a long play time (Adventure) or whatever. My favorite times are staying up for two or three days straight to see if Gauntlet (NES) ever ended or burying myself in the crud filled couch (life in the mountains) and racing the storm to see if you can finish a round of Pong before the snow kills the power.

What's your favorite Christmas memory? Sitting on the floor in your pajamas as you wailed away on Kaboom! for the first time or pushing and shoving your way through a crowd in a dim room as the sounds of 50 different cabinets blurped and warbled to grab your precious quarters?

[ark_ader]

I would say no. 

As you probably already know, Atari was an arcade manufacturer first and then went on to create the 2600. 

90% of your atari games have a arcade equivelent that is vastly superior. 

As for the ones that don't..... well..... the 2600 hasn't aged well.    Most of the "games" offter 30 seconds to 5 minutes of gameplay at the most before they become dull as hell.  Combat! of course being the exception. 

I say no but I'd like to expand on what was quoted.

To be honest, I think it's absurd to put console games into a cabinet just as I think it's absurd to put (most) arcade games into a console based unit.

Arcade games are specifically designed to earn the operator money. In other words, they're designed to entice you (the player) to drop a quarter (or two or four) of your limited funds into a game that is just easy enough to entrap you but just hard enough to ensure that you either A) feed more quarters in to continue playing (Gauntlet) or B) wander off and feed more quarters into another machine to let player B (not you) also feed quarters into the machine. There's nothing quite the same as hearing the kachunk! of that last quarter landing in the bin and striving to see how far you can get. That enticement and challenge goes away as soon as you use a button to virtually "pump in quarters" without limit.

Console games are designed to be played at home without the need to "feed" the machine. Therefor, the game developers needed to create an entirely different way to entice you to keep playing the game for as long as possible. Either by creating a party game (Combat or Warlords), a long play time (Adventure) or whatever. My favorite times are staying up for two or three days straight to see if Gauntlet (NES) ever ended or burying myself in the crud filled couch (life in the mountains) and racing the storm to see if you can finish a round of Pong before the snow kills the power.

What's your favorite Christmas memory? Sitting on the floor in your pajamas as you wailed away on Kaboom! for the first time or pushing and shoving your way through a crowd in a dim room as the sounds of 50 different cabinets blurped and warbled to grab your precious quarters?

That is just plain crap.

Console and Arcade games should be bundled together as they are the same conceptual model.  I plan to do the same with my space being a constraint. 

At the moment I have to power on a console, find a title insert it, connect the X arcade...   It's a PINA.

Having everything together is a great idea.   Do it and you will have endless fun.

Nostalgia is one thing, ease of use is another. 

[Malenko]

Neo Geo would disagree with all that as well.


Also, 2 words:

Barn Storming

[Dartful Dodger]

If you're over 30 definatly include the 2600. If you're under 30 there is no point to it.

The atari 2600 is one of the consoles that actulaly get played on my cabinet.

Yes the games suck, but it's the console people remember and want to play (if only for 30 seconds to 5 minutes).

In my cabinet everybody wants to play and laugh at the 2600 Pac-Man. The arcade version hardly ever gets played.

[opt2not]

Two words (and a smiley face):  Yars' Revenge

[ChadTower]

Forget everything they said.  There is only one question that matters:

Do you want the 2600 games on there?

[Well Fed Games]

Two more words: River Raid

Seriously, it is all about your interest in playing those games nowadays. 2600 collections came out for the PS2, both an Atari one and a Activision one, and I do put them in every once in a while. Of course, I had one in its heyday, so I have plenty of nostalgia.

Forget everything they said.  There is only one question that matters:

Do you want the 2600 games on there?

This, basically.

[DaveMMR]

I'm of the "console-games-belong-on-the-couch" belief myself. But then, without fail, people walk up to my cabinet and ask if they can play "Pitfall".  So yeah, why not? Just don't put every single VCS game on it; only the ones that'll work well with the controls and aren't a bad port of an existing arcade title.

[popsicle]

There are a few 2-player simultaneous pick up and go games on the 2600 that can be crowd-pleasers.  It's the simplicity that is the draw, esp. with alcohol and trash talking 

Freeway
Fishing Derby
Bowling
Combat
Air Sea Battle
Outlaw
Boxing
Frog Bog
Basketball

[Hoopz]

There are a few 2-player simultaneous pick up and go games on the 2600 that can be crowd-pleasers.  It's the simplicity that is the draw, esp. with alcohol and trash talking 

Freeway
Fishing Derby
Bowling
Combat
Air Sea Battle
Outlaw
Boxing
Frog Bog
Basketball

I didn't realize that the 2600 had the Intellivision. I thought it was just on Intellivision.

[popsicle]

Typo Hoopz? 

I really want to play Intellivision Sea Battle and Baseball on my cab... too bad I don't have a couple of 49-way joysticks and 15 buttons per player.  Future project maybe. 

[hypernova]

Two more words: River Raid

River Raid alone is totally worth it.

[Hoopz]

I meant that I didnt realize that the 2600 had Frog Bog.   

[Malenko]

I meant that I didnt realize that the 2600 had Frog Bog.   

The 2600 had frogs and flies, which is pretty much the exact same game. Common mistake

[SavannahLion]

That is just plain crap.

Let's see.... 12 (16 counting the D-pad) buttons and two sticks for my PS3 controller vs the average seven buttons + 1 stick for your MAME cabinet. Don't see a whole lot of direct ports to the arcades. Mostly the other way around from what I can tell.

At the moment I have to power on a console, find a title insert it, connect the X arcade...   It's a PINA.

Jesus, it's the 21st century. Anything older than current gen is downloadable. It's a menu selection away. X-Arcade? Are you mad?

Nostalgia is one thing, ease of use is another. 

Hence a nice warm comfy couch, a big fat pillow and a huge glass of ice cold (soda/tea/beer/whatever).

[ark_ader]

Jeepers, it's the 21st century. Anything older than current gen is downloadable. It's a menu selection away. X-Arcade? Are you mad?

Well the OP was suggesting Atari 2600 inclusion into his cabinet.  I was thinking literally.  As my last cab (before I chopped it up, set fire and danced around it) had a built-in Dreamcast.  Now due to space I have everything stacked in every nook, so putting a console(s) into a cabinet is a big decision to any arcade cabinet builder.  Personally I like the original 2600 as it is.  Emulation just spoils it.

My 2600 collection is in my Xbox1 but the OP might have original hardware kicking about, and we do love originality especially with old kit.  Mentioning having to flip switches to get a game going was an indicator. 

Am I mad?  Cuckoo as a Swiss clock.  It has taken me three months to hook up 8 consoles to the X Arcade, 2 sound systems, 3 PCs, 4 Monitors + Projector, 3 NAS drives, 2 laptops and a tablet in a 8x7 box room, so an arcade cabinet with consoles and PCs inside looks very appealing right about now.    My cable runs are a key feature, as is the electricity bill.

I think augmented arcade cabinets is a good thing.  Emulation is one thing - having the real deal is totally different. Besides how many times do you play with your consoles? Three times a week for me.  I'm always buying games.

I agree with your point menu wise - anything solidly emulated in the Xbox1, but anything kind of recent is a long way off IMO.

[SavannahLion]

Alright, you got me there on the cable run thing. I have an entertainment center with a gap and shelf  around the back for the express purpose of snaking cables around the back. I personally think an improvement can be done on this thing since it's an absolute monster bit that's a discussion for another thread.

[Howard_Casto]

I agree with the whole "consoles don't belong on a cabinet" thing.  Hell I'm pretty sure I started the movement!  I just didn't want to go into that whole broken record speech again. 

What bothers me is how people justify adding them in there "to save space". 

How are you saving space exactly?

Let me just go down the list of options BETTER than throwing games on a cabinet. 

1.  Use the original console.  You are seriously telling me you don't have 1 foot by 1 foot to spare?  (The average size of a console, a couple of controllers and a stack of games).

2.  Hook a pc up to your tv.  With modern pcs and dvi/hdmi connectors  literally all you need these days is a cable long enough to reach to your tv.  Grab a cheap gamepad and you have the console experince only everything is virtual so you have access to ALL consoles.  You also have a gamepad, which is superior to arcade controls 90% of the time when playing a console game.  Pc too far away?  Get a longer cable.  Or how about a laptop?  Seriously you are typing on something right?

3.  Just play them on your pc period.  At least this way you are in a sitting position, which is infinately better than standing/sitting on a stool for hours at a time.



Here's the thing.  There are lots of things you technically CAN do but you probably will just wear yourself out doing things the wrong way.  I mean I CAN use a rock to drive a nail, but it makes a lot more sense to use a hammer.  I CAN use a dime to drive a screw, but a flathead works a whole heck of a lot better. 

Oh and btw pointing out the one system that was specifically designed to play direct arcade carts (neo-geo) is lame.  As it is to mention one of the handfull of games that do work pretty well on a arcade cab.  Obviously any console port of an arcade game would play well with arcade controls, but considering that until we get to the DC era all console ports are DOWNGRADES to the original, why wouldn't you just play the original?  Get with the program people, we are talking about in general, not absolutely 100% of the time. 

[ark_ader]

I agree with the whole "consoles don't belong on a cabinet" thing.  Hell I'm pretty sure I started the movement!  I just didn't want to go into that whole broken record speech again. 

What bothers me is how people justify adding them in there "to save space". 

How are you saving space exactly?

Let me just go down the list of options BETTER than throwing games on a cabinet. 

1.  Use the original console.  You are seriously telling me you don't have 1 foot by 1 foot to spare?  (The average size of a console, a couple of controllers and a stack of games).

2.  Hook a pc up to your tv.  With modern pcs and dvi/hdmi connectors  literally all you need these days is a cable long enough to reach to your tv.  Grab a cheap gamepad and you have the console experince only everything is virtual so you have access to ALL consoles.  You also have a gamepad, which is superior to arcade controls 90% of the time when playing a console game.  Pc too far away?  Get a longer cable.  Or how about a laptop?  Seriously you are typing on something right?

3.  Just play them on your pc period.  At least this way you are in a sitting position, which is infinately better than standing/sitting on a stool for hours at a time.



Here's the thing.  There are lots of things you technically CAN do but you probably will just wear yourself out doing things the wrong way.  I mean I CAN use a rock to drive a nail, but it makes a lot more sense to use a hammer.  I CAN use a dime to drive a screw, but a flathead works a whole heck of a lot better. 

Oh and btw pointing out the one system that was specifically designed to play direct arcade carts (neo-geo) is lame.  As it is to mention one of the handfull of games that do work pretty well on a arcade cab.  Obviously any console port of an arcade game would play well with arcade controls, but considering that until we get to the DC era all console ports are DOWNGRADES to the original, why wouldn't you just play the original?  Get with the program people, we are talking about in general, not absolutely 100% of the time. 

That is great if you have the room, even if you did the idea of a 1x1 space actually I have a 1X10 nook which each console is stacked all connected to a LCD monitor and my X Arcade.  But to have emulated Dreamcast or Sega Saturn isn't going to play all the titles.  And I do have all of them.  But since we do not play every rom in Mame or every game in DC we have a small collection that we do play, and that works well in its native hardware. 

There is no reason not to incorporate hardware into a cabinet.  That is what a cabinet is for. Most of DC games are ports from the original.  Atari 2600 Games are unique to this conceptual model.

Again you use the wrong analogy Howard.  You can use anything of weight to knock a nail in.  You cannot use a PC to emulate all the games in a DC catalogue.

[Howard_Casto]

No, again I use the correct analogy, and the fact that you don't get that proves that you are misguided in your assumptions.  Again, while you technically can use a rock, it is much more difficult to hammer in the nail than with a hammer.  If you don't think so then you've obviously never tried to use a improvised object as a hammer. 

You are mixing and crossing your examples here.  If you are using a mame cab obviously you are going to run the games in an emulated state, so the whole "you won't have room for all the consoles" doesn't apply in that setup as you wouldn't be storing them in the cab anyway... reagardless, they would take up the same amount of space no matter which setup you use. 

If you enjoy playing DC games without an analog stick, without shoulder triggers and without a vmu, then you really are hammering a nail with a rock. 

I could see playing a few select saturn games on an arcade stick because most don't use all 8 buttons, but once you get to the 8 button games you've got this akward two rows of four layout that just isn't fun to use. 

Regardless, remember in the last post where I said "quit nit-picking you are talking in general"  and "prior to the DC console arcade ports were inferior"  In other words, I granted an exception for the dreamcast and said that in rare instances it does make sense to run them on a mame cab. 

That being said, the whole analog controls problem still stands.  Can't properly play crazy taxi without a wheel.  Can't play the fishing games without some sort of fishing controller, ect....  That is unless you just use the gamepad... in which case why play it in an arcade cabinet?

You mentioned 2 consoles out of roughly 35...   One that consists of 75% arcade titles and one that is extremely unpopular.  So the point still stands. 

 

[Necro]

I'm leaning towards the all MAME plus a very small selection of MESS'able console games (influenced a lot by the fact that I need video mirroring only available via MESS and MAME emu's).

I'm ALSO now leaning towards a small EMU 'console' computer also...my HTPC is a nettop so that's not an option...maybe something more powerful, focused specifically on emu's.

[SavannahLion]

Howards got all the points and more. Exceptions exist but damn it, I doubt a majority of the arcade pogrammers sat down and said, "gee, maybe we should make sure the game we create is suitable for the console market as well." Or vice versa.

[ChadTower]

If it helps the OP:

I'm in the process of building a MAME cab right now.  It will also be set up for any console game that works with an 8 way stick and 4 buttons per player.  I don't care how anyone outside my house feels about that and neither should you.  It's your cab.  Set it up how you want.

[wizkid32]

Wow, that's a lot of replies!   There are a lot of excellent opinions, but PLEASE, BE NICE .

@ SavannahLion, good point.  I'm actually a member of the younger crowd, but I still love playing a lot of classic games!

@ ChadTower, I am considering it, that is why I posted this thread.  

@ DaveMMR, excellent suggestion.  It might be a good idea to whittle my game choices down to just a few classics (that would go well with my control scheme)  On that note, I will have game-pads to use as controls for any console games I add...

@ hypernova , I have played River Raid (and River Raid 2), and they both are simple, yet fun.  Also, both have simplified controls that would be good with an arcade cabinet.

@ ark_ader (post #2), I do not have an actual VCS.  When I talk about including games in my arcade machine, I am talking about via emulator.  I don't know where you heard "switch"...

@ Howard_Casto (post #2), You have a point, but what I was asking about is would VCS games be an asset to my machine, not if putting them in there to save space would be a good idea.

@ ark_ader (post #3), same as above.

@Necro, good idea!

@SavannahLion (post #4), While that is perfectly true, you must keep in mind that there are many old games which actually play much like arcade games.  Granted this tends to be the exception rather than the rule (especially on modern systems), there are actually quite a few exceptions.  

[Vigo]

  It sound like it is worth the time for you to set up the 2600 then, don't worry about the purist talk that console games are not for the arcade. You said it right when you said that a lot of console games play like an arcade game, and I think that the 2600 is a good console for that kind of game.

I haven't tried the 2600 on the arcade, but I am sure there would be enough good titles. I think going head to head with Combat could be awesome. Maybe a little Threshold, Robot Tank or Chopper Command. As mentioned earlier, Frogs and Flies is fun too.

[yotsuya]

It sound like it is worth the time for you to set up the 2600 then, don't worry about the purist talk that console games are not for the arcade. You said it right when you said that a lot of console games play like an arcade game, and I think that the 2600 is a good console for that kind of game.

I haven't tried the 2600 on the arcade, but I am sure there would be enough good titles. I think going head to head with Combat could be awesome. Maybe a little Threshold, Robot Tank or Chopper Command. As mentioned earlier, Frogs and Flies is fun too.

I have fun playing Atlantis on the 2600 using my cab. It works just fine.

[ark_ader]

If you enjoy playing DC games without an analog stick, without shoulder triggers and without a vmu, then you really are hammering a nail with a rock. 

I have a VMU attached, I also have the X arcade which gives both digital and analog, but most games are pure digital.  So you could say I am using a rubber mallet to hammer in a nail. 

[Malenko]

Oh and btw pointing out the one system that was specifically designed to play direct arcade carts (neo-geo) is lame.  As it is to mention one of the handfull of games that do work pretty well on a arcade cab.  Obviously any console port of an arcade game would play well with arcade controls, but considering that until we get to the DC era all console ports are DOWNGRADES to the original, why wouldn't you just play the original?  Get with the program people, we are talking about in general, not absolutely 100% of the time. 

Why is it lame? The whole point of consoles back in the day was to replicate arcade games on a TV, the NeoGeo did it perfectly. Until we got to the DC era all console ports were downgrades? really? Excite Bike, Hogans Alley, Mario Bros, Duck Hunt, and Super Mario Bros (not to mention a crapton of others) on NES were pretty much arcade perfect (wont mention all the play choice 10 games cause that'd be lame) Playstation 1 was out before DC, and it had better than arcade versions of Soul Caliber, Tekken, and other system 11 games

As for console games getting ported to arcade, Guitar Hero comes to mind (even though it was a rip off of an arcade game to begin with)

Sorry for the late reply, I was on the other side of the world (literally) and I was saving my 5,000th post for my project announcement =)

[Dartful Dodger]

3.  Just play them on your pc period.  At least this way you are in a sitting position, which is infinately better than standing/sitting on a stool for hours at a time.

If you play any 2600 game for hours, you have bigger problems than the console/arcade debate.

Heck, when the 2600 was the next-generation console you wouldn't spend more than an hour at a time playing it.

[yotsuya]

3.  Just play them on your pc period.  At least this way you are in a sitting position, which is infinately better than standing/sitting on a stool for hours at a time.

If you play any 2600 game for hours, you have bigger problems than the console/arcade debate.

Heck, when the 2600 was the next-generation console you wouldn't spend more than an hour at a time playing it.

My cousins and I EASILY spent more than an hour at a time playing it, but combined we had something like 30 games for it.

[Necro]

At a party I was at this weekend my cab came up in conversation.  Someone actually asked if you could play that game with the guy jumping from rope to rope.  I was like 'Jungle King?  Jungle Hunt?'.  Nope.

'Pitfall?'....yup.

  Timely I thought, given this thread.

[Dartful Dodger]

In college I worked at a hotel and one night we hooked up a NES to the projector in the amphitheater and played some Pole Position type game. It was funny to see and play it on the big screen, but it looked horrible.  Even when the NES was still a current console it looked bad when it was on a bigger screen.

I doubt anyone, even the cheapskates on this board use a TV that's under 27 inches, but most of our arcade cabinets on the other hand have a 19-21 inch monitor, which is the perfect size for a pre-32 bit console.

'Pitfall?'....yup.

I forgot about Pitfall.

I'll be playing that tonight.



But I won't be playing it for more than an hour.

[Malenko]

that reminds me of the old SNES launch commercials , where they played Pilot Wings andF-Zero at an old outdoor movie theater on the giant screen.

[wizkid32]

Thanks for all the great opinions!

[SavannahLion]

Slightly O.T.

that reminds me of the old SNES launch commercials , where they played Pilot Wings andF-Zero at an old outdoor movie theater on the giant screen.

That reminds me of an old story in school of a kid (always a friend of a friend's cousin third adopted.... you get the idea) playing video games projected from a satellite against the sky. SNES era I believe since the game of choice was always SFII. I remember arguing with every kid the failure of logistics in this but..... Like the hoverboard from BTF2, the damn story refused to die.

[wizkid32]

I doubt anyone, even the cheapskates on this board use a TV that's under 27 inches, but most of our arcade cabinets on the other hand have a 19-21 inch monitor, which is the perfect size for a pre-32 bit console.

My Monitor is actually 22", but then again, it is a 16:9...
Anyway, imagine my surprise to find this topic revamped...(Good surprise, keep the posts coming!)

[BobBorakovitz]

That reminds me of an old story in school of a kid (always a friend of a friend's cousin third adopted.... you get the idea) playing video games projected from a satellite against the sky. SNES era I believe since the game of choice was always SFII. I remember arguing with every kid the failure of logistics in this but..... Like the hoverboard from BTF2, the damn story refused to die.

you mean the SNES Satellaview?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview

it existed... also the Sega Channel to download 16 bit sega games to your Genesis.

[harveybirdman]

I decided against it, although I am emulating Genesis, NES, and SNES currently.   And I am considering DC and PSX to supplement what my current Mame PC isn't fast enough to emulate (3D fighters) or for games that aren't currently working in Mame (Ikaruga)

Here's why I decided to scrap the Atari plans but one may use the same reasoning to opt for putting it in.

1) Nostalgia, do you have it?:  We were slow to get everything in my family, all my friends had remotes to their TV's long before we did so it was little surprise that we got into the console game late. We got the Atari 4000 for Christmas when I was a kid and we had four games, Pac-Man, Centipede, Missile Command, and Star Raiders.  None of my friends had a 4000 and there were no games readily available for it, in fact we never bought anymore games.  So most of my Atari memories are playing games that kick tons more ass in Mame.  Granted I played hours of Combat and Pole Position with my cousin and other kids that had the more popular 2600 and many more games but not enough to warrant some special place in my cabinet.  Perhaps these games mean enough to you to earn a spot in yours

2) Emulator options:  I mean I'm sure there are some perfectly good options out there but I wasn't thrilled with any that I downloaded.  Pretty much if I can't intuitively figure out an emulator and I don't REALLY REALLY want to play a specific game then you can bet that I'm not going to trouble with it especially considering after I learn it I have to make it jive with my front-end, which depending on the emulator can be a PINA for morons like me.

3)The Pokemon effect:  I spent freaking all kinds of time getting Virtual Boy running on my machine and watched all kinds of videos to learn how to emulate the trading Pokemon feature by running two instances of Virtual Boy at once because I just "HAD" to experience Pokemon evolving correctly non-hacked.  Once I got into playing the game I realized... you know what this really wasn't worth it.  So just because something seems novel now, doesn't mean that it will stay that way going forward.