Blackhawk Push/Pull Spinner vs TurboTwist High-Low Push-Pull Arcade Spinner

[RetroBorg]

Apache Controls Blackhawk Push/Pull Spinner vs Groovy Game Gear Turbo Twist High-Low Push-Pull Arcade Spinner Control

I'm thinking of getting an up/down spinner for Discs of Tron and was just wondering if anyone has used both of these and if so which one do they prefer?

While I can find some reviews on the Blackhawk I can't find any reviews on the Turbo.

Any opinions on either of these spinners?

[zallax]

I am a huge DoT fan and have had both spinners. 

My first control panel had the Blackhawk.  It is a serious piece of solid hardware.  It has very good spinning momentum.  Occasionally, though you could hear a little metal on metal while spinning, but spinning seemed unaffected.   The springs on mine were really tight which sometimes made it difficult to move up and down, however, it was readily adjustable.  Mounting was relatively easy as long as you have really long and skinny drivers.  The only bad thing I can say about it is it is huge.  It will take up some serious control panel real estate beneath your panel.

When I built my second control panel, I did not have the room my first one had.  So, I went with the TurboTwist High-Low.  It unit is very compact and despite being small the spin action seems fine (at least for DoT).  The Hi-Lo feature doesn't have much throw.  I have accidentally changed DoT targeting levels while using this, unlike the Apache.  Since the unit is self contained, there is not a way to tweak this over time, which worries as springs start to wear.  Mounting this spinner is a nightmare.  You just can't use a spade or hole saw.  The mounting hole is circular with three circular nubs cut out of it.  I did a rough cut with a jigsaw and lot of filing and sanding to make sure that I did not mess it up.  Also, depending on your taste, you may want to route it flush, which adds more complication to the mounting.

As for the spinning knobs, I like the look of TT Hi-Lo's better because it is polished, rounded, and has the concentric rings on it.  Just wish it came in colors.   The Apache is far less polished, had some nice grooves on it for better accuracy and came in red or blue. 

As for performance, the highest score I ever made on Discs of Tron with the Apache was 112,000.  While, just recently, I broke 151,000 with the Turbo Twist Hi-Lo.  Now, I had learned some tricks and gained some experience between the usage of the two spinners which could account for the difference.  I just wanted to let you know that if your scores on DoT are not near these, then it may not matter to you as both products are acceptable.

IMHO, if you have the room for the Apache, go with it.  If you are limited on space, the TT Hi-Lo will work as well. 

[BobA]

Bump for an Apache Spinner in Buy and Sell. Brand New Spinner for Sale

[RetroBorg]

Thanks zallax, that's exactly the sort of feedback I was after.

I do have one more question though, which spinner did you prefer for other games like Tempest, Arkanoid etc that don't rely on the push/pull thingy?

[RetroBorg]

Bump for an Apache Spinner in Buy and Sell. Brand New Spinner for Sale

I'll keep that in mind if I go that way and it's still available.

[zallax]

I have two other spinners on my Control Panel and both are GroovyGameGear TurboTwist 2 with extra inertia weight.  Tiny footprint, can spin forever, and can double as steering wheels if your layout is right.

[Bender]

I'd echo everything zallex said

I too have both spinners
The Apache is a big heavy solid piece of arcade machinery I like the feel best for DOT
The GGG Hi/lo is very small but well built. It's a great all around spinner it has a much higher resolution which is noticeably smother in Arkanoid, but that is because that game had such a ridiculously sensitive spinner, The Apache was fine for every other spinner game I tried including tempest
I did have some trouble with setting up the GGG Hi/Lo software in XP64 but eventually got it worked out


So the short answer is:

Apache for a dedicated DOT good for everything but Arkanoid
GGG Hi/Lo for all around Mame spinner that can play DOT very well (might want to avoid if your running XP64)

[RandyT]

I did have some trouble with setting up the GGG Hi/Lo software in XP64 but eventually got it worked out

As for the spinning knobs, I like the look of TT Hi-Lo's better because it is polished, rounded, and has the concentric rings on it.  Just wish it came in colors.

These two statements are a little out of date.  The knobs do come in colors now...Silver, Black, Red and Blue.  And there is no software required for the High-Low or any of our spinners.  They are "plug and play".  If one wishes to up the polling rate of the driver in their OS, then that's up to the individual. But it's not necessary to do so as the interface has had built in backspin elimination code for a couple of years now.

As for "Arkanoid only" differences, that's not entirely factual.  A difference will also be seen on any game which originally used a geared spinner (pretty much all driving games) and any games which originally used an analog potentiometer control. 

There is also a mechanical design difference which was not mentioned.  The High-Low does not rub against the switch actuators when turning the knob while pushed or pulled.  The importance of this will be based on individual preference and the application.

RandyT

[zallax]

I did not know the the Hi-Lo knobs now come in color.  Randy, can you throw a pic of the set in color?  Also, I don't see anywhere on the web site where one could order one without buying the spinner.

[pinballwizard79]

I'm a fan of the Apache....

& the GGG Tron shell 

[RetroBorg]

I'd echo everything zallex said

I too have both spinners
The Apache is a big heavy solid piece of arcade machinery I like the feel best for DOT
The GGG Hi/lo is very small but well built. It's a great all around spinner it has a much higher resolution which is noticeably smother in Arkanoid, but that is because that game had such a ridiculously sensitive spinner, The Apache was fine for every other spinner game I tried including tempest
I did have some trouble with setting up the GGG Hi/Lo software in XP64 but eventually got it worked out


So the short answer is:

Apache for a dedicated DOT good for everything but Arkanoid
GGG Hi/Lo for all around Mame spinner that can play DOT very well (might want to avoid if your running XP64)

Thanks Bender, that's good information there.

At this stage I'm leaning towards the GGG Hi/Lo, main reason is the small footprint but I'm a bit worried about the mounting of it.

[Gray_Area]

I imagine the Apache is essentially the same as the original DOT.

I played this games perhaps twenty times at Six Flags Magic Mountain in '84, and I don't recall whether I got to variable field and fire. Since MAME, I've been used to not having the option*, and just running back and forth and evenutally, hopefully, getting Sark.

However, today I finally had a run with the TT hi-low, and I found it just hard as hell to play the game. So much going on, and targeting wasn't exactly as it would've seemed. And I didn't at all understand how to aim for the ceiling.

*Old MAME allowed trackball use - probably around .69 - but I haven't used that in a while.

[equlizer]

is it ok to lube the bearings on the apache?  if so, with what type of oil/grease? thx

[RandyT]

However, today I finally had a run with the TT hi-low, and I found it just hard as hell to play the game. So much going on, and targeting wasn't exactly as it would've seemed.

Did you adjust the sensitivity of the control within MAME?  At full sensitivity, the High-Low would be about 3x the resolution of the original, making it difficult to play.  Try reducing the sensitivity down to about 36% (I don't have the exact number at the moment) and see if it works better for you.

RandyT

[Gray_Area]

However, today I finally had a run with the TT hi-low, and I found it just hard as hell to play the game. So much going on, and targeting wasn't exactly as it would've seemed.

Did you adjust the sensitivity of the control within MAME?  At full sensitivity, the High-Low would be about 3x the resolution of the original, making it difficult to play.  Try reducing the sensitivity down to about 36% (I don't have the exact number at the moment) and see if it works better for you.

RandyT

I was afraid I wasn't clear. There was no issue with the axis. I had problems with controlling up and down, which I think is related to where the 'targeting line' appears to be and where your discs actually hit in relation to it.

[equlizer]

im having issues with the spinner not working after hooking up a trackball. The trackball works fine but then no spinner   Any help?