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Author Topic: Sync issues with Nanao MS9  (Read 3786 times)

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retrorepair

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Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« on: October 08, 2011, 10:32:05 am »
So I'm using a Sapphire Radeon HD 3850 with the ATI drivers on a dual sync Nanao MS9 which is almost identical to my first setup (that uses a Power Color 3850) but on this one the vertical sync is totally screwed up.

I set it as "GENERIC" and dotclock to 8.5 just like my other cab but no matter what the resolution the vertical sync just won't have it. Soft15khz didn't do this on this monitor, so why are Calamity's drivers?  :dizzy:
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Calamity

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 11:07:16 am »
It might have to do with sync polarities. VMMaker only supports negative sync polarities by now, as it's enough most of the time, however I'll planning to add a polarity option in next release.

You may try to install Catalyst Control Panel (only CCC not the driver), here:

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/9-3/Pages/radeonaiw_xp.aspx?&lang=English

Then try enabling composite sync.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 03:07:33 pm »
Hmm, CCC isn't detecting a monitor to be able to adjust those options  :badmood:

Is there something I can do on my VGA cable so it knows something's plugged in?
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 04:12:23 pm »
So if you install Soft-15khz over the drivers does it sync again?

Do you mean you're using a PC monitor as your primary device and it's not finding your arcade monitor through secondary VGA?

You do need to plug your arcade monitor as the primary one. I'm working at the moment to add supply for the second device.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 04:30:07 pm »
No, I only have the arcade monitor connected, I installed and checked CCC through un-sync'd mess  :dizzy:

I'll try and install soft15khz over the top, won't that screw up your driver though?

As an aside, how do I set it up to display 15 and 24khz? I have a switch set up for when I play model 2 games. I guess I'd have to set up the monitor specially but I've no idea what I'm doing there..
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 03:17:09 pm »
So it turns out it's my chassis. I tried it on my other cab and it came up fine so I guess I have to send it off for repair  :badmood:

For kicks I tried soft15khz and same thing, vertical sync just goes nuts.

I upgraded from a GeForce 7600 GT and that didn't do this with soft15khz, so what's the difference between the cards in terms of sync? I just tie the sync lines together, might the ATI card not like that?

If it makes a difference, with no drivers I can see windows just fine (albeit in two halves). So I'm wondering if there's something I can change in the VMMaker ini to get round it?
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 03:38:21 pm »
Check if you're chassis has some sort of sync polarity switch (many have). I don't think your monitor needs repairing, it's a sync polarity issue. I'll need to add some options to vmmaker for that, I'm still figuring that out.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 04:47:44 pm »
Well MS9s don't have a switch or jumper, they just use regular negative comp sync. It's not constantly rolling either, it's randomly "jittering" with little bits of tearing. Thing that rings alarm bells though is is gets better/worse when I move the horizontal shift pot. I suppose maybe the timing on this card is a bit different to the geforce?
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 05:01:45 pm »
Interesting. You could play with Arcade_OSD horizontal geometry settings, try to increase/reduce the sync pulse width or even front/back porches, just to see if you find a point where it gets stable, then you could write down those timings (on the right) in order to build your own custom monitor_specs line.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 08:05:34 am »
Yeah I will do. I did go through to see if any built in resolution worked but no dice, so we'll see if I can find something it likes :)
My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/retrorepair

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 11:24:56 am »
Yeah I will do. I did go through to see if any built in resolution worked but no dice, so we'll see if I can find something it likes :)

I believe the key will be to enable composite sync by means of the modeline definition, hopefully that will be possible in next release.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 07:22:53 pm »
Well I tried all I can but it's just having none of it so I swapped the chassis out from one of my other cabs and we are back in business. That's the second one that's ok with this setup. Guess the original chassis just has issues, it certainly looks to have had a hard life.. I'll try it later when you update the driver.

I have new problems now though  :banghead:

Just about all my 3D games have problems that were not present on the GeForce. For example:

*EDIT* Disabling vsync by force in CCC fixed my issues.

The other big question is, how do I keep 15k functionality for 31k and 15k resolutions while getting 24k resolutions to display properly? Like I said I have a dual sync chassis and like to play daytona, scud race etc in the proper res since I installed a switch to change 15-24k.

Also m2 emu won't even run with your driver installed, I guess since it's set to full screen @ 496x384 and can't find that res. I assume VMMaker discarded it?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 09:14:57 pm by retrorepair »
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 03:27:23 am »
Hi,

Why not add 24Khz resolution with soft 15Khz ?

In that way you should have :

15khz reso on 15Khz mode
24Khz reso(496x384) on 24Khz mode
31Khz reso on 15Khz mode but in interlaced as MS9 is not tri sync


Calamity

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 04:24:35 am »
The other big question is, how do I keep 15k functionality for 31k and 15k resolutions while getting 24k resolutions to display properly? Like I said I have a dual sync chassis and like to play daytona, scud race etc in the proper res since I installed a switch to change 15-24k.

Also m2 emu won't even run with your driver installed, I guess since it's set to full screen @ 496x384 and can't find that res. I assume VMMaker discarded it?

All that is perfectly possible using the proper options in vmmaker.ini. But first, do you happen to have your monitor's manual available? That would help me figure out the right settings.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 10:09:28 am »
I tried just adding 24khz with soft15khz but it just screwed up the driver, arcade osd showed just 3 resolutions.

I'll try and find the info but I think there's not much in the way of a manual for the ms9, just pages with adjustment info.
My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/retrorepair

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 10:21:57 am »
Looks like it's near impossible to find (segashed is out of stock too): http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89688.0
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My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 10:55:27 am »
I think the best info I can find is here on page 15: http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/images/9/96/Sega_New_Astro_City_Manual.pdf

It says 24khz mode is 24.83khz and 15k mode is 15.7khz. That's about as in depth as it gets  :-\

My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/retrorepair

Calamity

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 04:48:00 pm »
These settings may be good for your monitor.

In vmmaker.ini (run vmmaker and reboot)

Code: [Select]
MonitorType = "CUSTOM"
monitor_specs_0 = "15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448"
monitor_specs_1 = "23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768"

In mame.ini

Code: [Select]
monitor_specs_0   15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs_1   23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768

If you want to explicitly create a resolution, edit ReslList.txt in vmmaker folder before running it, and paste a line for the resolution you want, like this:

Code: [Select]
496 x 384 @ 57.524160 system24
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2011, 06:41:30 pm »
That did the trick, works great now  :applaud:

Maybe it'd be an idea to add that as a generic dual sync profile?

Thanks for all your help Calamity!  :cheers:
My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/retrorepair

Calamity

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 07:02:41 pm »
That did the trick, works great now  :applaud:

Maybe it'd be an idea to add that as a generic dual sync profile?

Thanks for all your help Calamity!  :cheers:

Great! It would be good add it as a new monitor preset rather than a 'generic' one. Is 'MS9' label specific enough for it?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2011, 09:01:16 pm »
Yeah it's full model title is MS9-29 (some have a suffix too) but most people just call it an MS9. Should be fine for the older MS8 too which is also dual sync  :)
My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 01:10:08 am »
What exactly was accomplished here? I have an ms9 that is able to auto switch between 15khz and 24khz.  With these 2 lines, groovymame will support 15khz and 24khz games natively on my monitor?

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 05:23:26 pm »
What exactly was accomplished here? I have an ms9 that is able to auto switch between 15khz and 24khz.  With these 2 lines, groovymame will support 15khz and 24khz games natively on my monitor?

Yes that's the idea  ;)
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2012, 05:54:02 am »
Quote
I have an ms9 that is able to auto switch between 15khz and 24khz.

Hold onto that chassis, most MS9s require a jumper to be moved with the monitor turned off to switch 15/24khz. The auto switchers are quite rare.
My arcade racing setup:
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RetroRepair
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/retrorepair

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2012, 09:12:45 pm »
These settings may be good for your monitor.

In vmmaker.ini (run vmmaker and reboot)

Code: [Select]
MonitorType = "CUSTOM"
monitor_specs_0 = "15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448"
monitor_specs_1 = "23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768"

In mame.ini

Code: [Select]
monitor_specs_0   15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs_1   23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768


Hi I was hoping you could help me, I have a Nanao MS8 which supports 15/25hz but manually only. I only want to leave it in the 15hz position so does that mean I only add the monitor_spec_0 line to my vmmaker.ini file?

Also when I run a 25hz game will it display interlaced if I set a ini file for the game? Or can I not run 25hz games?

Thank you.

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2012, 06:52:10 am »
Hi I was hoping you could help me, I have a Nanao MS8 which supports 15/25hz but manually only. I only want to leave it in the 15hz position so does that mean I only add the monitor_spec_0 line to my vmmaker.ini file?

Also when I run a 25hz game will it display interlaced if I set a ini file for the game? Or can I not run 25hz games?

Thank you.

Yes, if you want to leave the switch in the 15 kHz position then you're not going to be using the 25 kHz range, so you must not add the corresponding monitor_specs line.

If you're using GroovyMAME, you shouldn't use inis for forcing explicit resolutions.

With this setup, GroovyMAME will automatically pick the best interlaced mode for 25 kHz games.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2012, 07:01:43 am »
Great, thank you for the updates. What's the best resolution for desktop if I don't want it interlaced? And what software do I use to set it?

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Re: Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2012, 07:02:35 am »
Great, thank you for the updates. What's the best resolution for desktop if I don't want it interlaced? And what software do I use to set it?

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2012, 07:17:47 am »
If you want a progressive resolution for your desktop use something with 288 lines. However that will involve having your monitor's vertical amplitude adjusted to get those lines fit the screen, which can make readjustment necessary when playing 224-line games. I find more convenient to use an interlaced resolution for the desktop. You can use Arcade_OSD to select the desired resolution for the desktop.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Sync issues with Nanao MS9
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2012, 07:44:47 pm »
Thanks a lot for adding NANAO MS9 support!  :cheers: