Which spinner?

[monkey puzzle]

I am about to order some U360 restrictor plates from Ultimarc, so I thought I might as well buy a spinner also to combine shipping costs. After looking at the spinner tops available from Ultimarc I couldn't really see one which I like, but I am rather fond of the "ElecTron" top from GGG. Can anybody tell me if this spinner top is compatible with the Ultimarc Spintrak? And if I am buying from both companies anyway which spinner should I buy (Spintrak or TT2)? It would be good to know which spinner is favourited by people.

[Well Fed Games]

I am about to order some U360 restrictor plates from Ultimarc, so I thought I might as well buy a spinner also to combine shipping costs. After looking at the spinner tops available from Ultimarc I couldn't really see one which I like, but I am rather fond of the "ElecTron" top from GGG. Can anybody tell me if this spinner top is compatible with the Ultimarc Spintrak? And if I am buying from both companies anyway which spinner should I buy (Spintrak or TT2)? It would be good to know which spinner is favourited by people.

I am not sure there is any practical difference, other than the tops, and the fact that two TT2s can be chained to one board. Just googling "Turbo Twist vs Spintrack" brought up some threads on this forum. Not sure about the tops being interchangeable... I imagine so but I am sure someone can confirm. Personally, I have a TT2, used only a little (still building the cab) and playing spinner games with it is awesome, and I have yet to really tweak any settings.

[pinballwizard79]

100% Apache!

http://www.apachecontrols.com/products.html = the best IMHO

I've had 2 GGG, 2 Tornado, 1 ultimarc & 1 apache so although this is just my opinion its important to know I've played em all

Some talk about the Apache's "low resolution" but I compare that to buying a 1080p tv just to display 600*800 resolutions.... it doesnt make sense.

I still buy stuff from Andy/Randy @ GGG/Ultimarc, they are good guys but now that I've held an Apache in my hands all other spinners feel how shall I say this..... "almost".

Ultimarc knobs & GGG knobs ARE NOT interchangable.

Here is my #2 choice although it is not a push/pull spinner: http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement/gameparts/201314.htm

Just my $0.02, I am not the authority on spinners 

[mgb]

I'm happy with my Turbo Twist 2 from GGG.
but I have never tried any of the others

[scofthe7seas]

haha pinball wizard.. number 2, the spinner that shall not be named!
I also have one of those, and I like it well enough, though like mgb, I don't have experience with others.
Sucks that you have to get it at Happ though..

[pinballwizard79]

scofthe7seas did you know DreamAuthentics sells evil SS parts too via their sister website?

http://www.retroarcadeslive.com/webstore/webstore.asp

Ok, hijacking done... back to spinner sassin

[RandyT]

Some talk about the Apache's "low resolution" but I compare that to buying a 1080p tv just to display 600*800 resolutions.... it doesnt make sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense as the analogy is, unfortunately, flawed.  Try playing an analog dial game, or Arkanoid 1 and 2 with a hi-resolution spinner, and then a low resolution spinner.  If you can't see and feel a difference in gameplay, you probably don't play those types of games too often.

It should also be mentioned that every driving game originally used either an analog potentiometer, or a geared optical encoder.  Both of these are very high resolution, and many folks successfully use their high-resolution spinners to enjoy this type of game as well.

RandyT

[pinballwizard79]

Phooey

I play racing games & Arkonoid with my Apache all the time.

We shall just agree to disagree, I dont want you to ignore my future orders  

[RandyT]

Phooey

I play racing games & Arkonoid with my Apache all the time.

We shall just agree to disagree, I dont want you to ignore my future orders  

Heh, not to worry about that.  I didn't say it wouldn't work, it just doesn't work as well .  Great examples are SuperSprint and Pole Position.  The controlability with a high resolution spinner over a low-res one is a night and day difference...at least in my experience.  The original TurboTwist (version 1) was the first non-geared spinner to be able to play Arkanoid properly.  It was invented to address playability concerns, which have been voiced over and over on these forums.  The TurboTwist2 handles the even higher requirements of Arkanoid 2, as well as the analog dial and steering wheel controls.  If there was nothing to be gained, the high resolution spinners wouldn't exist.  That's not to say that low-res spinners don't do a great job on the titles they are suited for.  It's only that the performance falls short in a number of applications.  If those applications are important to the user, they should probably take resolution into consideration.

RandyT

[t3design]

Is there a way to increase the resolution of an old optical spinner (like a Tempest spinner)?

Would creating a new encoder disc with more holes make any difference?

[RandyT]

Is there a way to increase the resolution of an old optical spinner (like a Tempest spinner)?

Would creating a new encoder disc with more holes make any difference?

Possibly.  You would need to make sure the aperture density is compatible with the spacing of the sensors, and that the sensors worked with the finer pitch of the encoder wheel.  But you probably won't achieve what the native high-resolution encoders can achieve without a much larger footprint.

[Xiaou2]

Mame allows you to sort of cheat, which makes the illusion that control is Ok with a low resolution spinner on a high resolution game...  with analog adjustments that the user can tweak.

 How does it work?   Instead of each optical signal counting as one pixel movement on screen... mame can allow you to make each signal worth 10 pixels movement on screen.

 While this gives the needed resolution to use a low resolution spinner... it does not give the player precise accurate control.  The players movements can also be a bit jumpy visually.  It can also make the game easier, by limiting the range of possible responses.

 
 On the other hand, a spinner too sensitive may not work well with a low res game... unless you can adjust the sensitivity by a huge factor.   Many high resolution laser mice have a button or setting which enables you to do just that.  Ive not checked Randys method, and Im sure he will chime in, but it probably works the same way.  (as I dont think mame has enough range to reduce the resolution enough on its own)

Is there a way to increase the resolution of an old optical spinner (like a Tempest spinner)?

Would creating a new encoder disc with more holes make any difference?

 Tempest has an encoder which has a ton of holes on it as is.. and putting more on it would create structural problems with the disc itself.  Dust would also be a big problem at that level of density.  As far as it appears from looking at the outside assembly, the high res encoders are near microscopic, and are fully enclosed to prevent any damage and dust issues.

 There might be a way to modify an older spinner with a lasermouse on a encoder wheel what has no holes on it.  Only problem is that lasermice are probably still fairly pricey, and theres still modification needed.  Anything less than a decent lasermouse is probably going to be too erratic and laggy.
 

 

[RandyT]

On the other hand, a spinner too sensitive may not work well with a low res game... unless you can adjust the sensitivity by a huge factor.   Many high resolution laser mice have a button or setting which enables you to do just that.  Ive not checked Randys method, and Im sure he will chime in, but it probably works the same way.  (as I dont think mame has enough range to reduce the resolution enough on its own)

MAME can do this fine on it's own.  When reducing, it works in percentages.  A sensitivity of "1" (the lowest) would make a 1200 transition per revolution spinner be seen as a 12 tpr spinner. 2 would be 24 tpr, 3=36 tpr, 4=48 tpr, 5=60 tpr and 6=72 tpr...and so on.  6 is the magic sensitivity number that coincides with the original 72 tpr encoder used on Tempest and similar titles, when using a 1200 tpr spinner like the TurboTwist 2.

There are no drawbacks to using a high-res spinner, only advantages.

[D_Harris]

Phooey

I play racing games & Arkonoid with my Apache all the time.

We shall just agree to disagree, I dont want you to ignore my future orders  

You never mentioned why you thought the Apache was the best.

Does it have to do with the "feel" of the spinner?

The only third party spinner I have an original Tornado gathering dust. (All the other spinners I have are original arcade spinners from Arkanoid, Tempest, Star Trek, & a couple of Midways from unknown games).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[NelsonPJ]

MAME can do this fine on it's own.  When reducing, it works in percentages.  A sensitivity of "1" (the lowest) would make a 1200 transition per revolution spinner be seen as a 12 tpr spinner. 2 would be 24 tpr, 3=36 tpr, 4=48 tpr, 5=60 tpr and 6=72 tpr...and so on.  6 is the magic sensitivity number that coincides with the original 72 tpr encoder used on Tempest and similar titles, when using a 1200 tpr spinner like the TurboTwist 2.

This is interesting... I'd never thought about what the analog sensitivity setting actually meant.  As a recent TurboTwist 2 customer, do you have a list of recommended MAME settings for spinner games?

[(+_+)]

100% Apache!

http://www.apachecontrols.com/products.html = the best IMHO

I've had 2 GGG, 2 Tornado, 1 ultimarc & 1 apache so although this is just my opinion its important to know I've played em all

Some talk about the Apache's "low resolution" but I compare that to buying a 1080p tv just to display 600*800 resolutions.... it doesnt make sense.

I still buy stuff from Andy/Randy @ GGG/Ultimarc, they are good guys but now that I've held an Apache in my hands all other spinners feel how shall I say this..... "almost".

Ultimarc knobs & GGG knobs ARE NOT interchangable.

Here is my #2 choice although it is not a push/pull spinner: http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement/gameparts/201314.htm

Just my $0.02, I am not the authority on spinners 

$50 shipping to Quebec for the Apache.  I don't think so. That so expensive, it's retarded.

Cut and pasted from the checkout

Item total:$139.98 Shipping and handling
Shipping and handling (to ) $50.00 Estimate shipping and taxSelect ship-to country (optional)

Total:$189.98 USD

[BobA]

See my ad in BST for a new Apache Spinner.  $90 US plus shipping.

Apache Spinner

[pinballwizard79]

Phooey

I play racing games & Arkonoid with my Apache all the time.

We shall just agree to disagree, I dont want you to ignore my future orders  

You never mentioned why you thought the Apache was the best.

Does it have to do with the "feel" of the spinner?

The only third party spinner I have an original Tornado gathering dust. (All the other spinners I have are original arcade spinners from Arkanoid, Tempest, Star Trek, & a couple of Midways from unknown games).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Yes, thats exactly it. I like the heft, up/down throw distance, feel, spin & above all the knob.

[popsicle]

 

[popsicle]

MAME can do this fine on it's own.  When reducing, it works in percentages.  A sensitivity of "1" (the lowest) would make a 1200 transition per revolution spinner be seen as a 12 tpr spinner. 2 would be 24 tpr, 3=36 tpr, 4=48 tpr, 5=60 tpr and 6=72 tpr...and so on.  6 is the magic sensitivity number that coincides with the original 72 tpr encoder used on Tempest and similar titles, when using a 1200 tpr spinner like the TurboTwist 2.

This is interesting... I'd never thought about what the analog sensitivity setting actually meant.  As a recent TurboTwist 2 customer, do you have a list of recommended MAME settings for spinner games?

+1

[nick3092]

MAME can do this fine on it's own.  When reducing, it works in percentages.  A sensitivity of "1" (the lowest) would make a 1200 transition per revolution spinner be seen as a 12 tpr spinner. 2 would be 24 tpr, 3=36 tpr, 4=48 tpr, 5=60 tpr and 6=72 tpr...and so on.  6 is the magic sensitivity number that coincides with the original 72 tpr encoder used on Tempest and similar titles, when using a 1200 tpr spinner like the TurboTwist 2.

This is interesting... I'd never thought about what the analog sensitivity setting actually meant.  As a recent TurboTwist 2 customer, do you have a list of recommended MAME settings for spinner games?

You have to do some basic math, but here is what you are looking for:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinner_Turn_Count

[Necro]

Even with all of the above, I wanted to just note there's definitely a different feel between spinners that may be important.  For me, I played a LOT of Arkanoid on a cabinet.  Even though I have an Oscar spinner (a tempest spinner, basically), and it's regarded as a very good spinner, I still went and purchased a Arkanoid spinner as well.  Playing the game on the Tempest spinner just feels 'wrong'.  Likewise, trying the opposite doesn't work well either.

In short, because I have a headache and feel crappy and don't want to type anymore - get a high res one that spins freely if it's all you're going to use.  But be prepared to get something else if you want the right 'feel'. 

[ragnar]

Arrgghhhh

Never thought of using a spinner for racing games.  Now i think i have to retrofit my panel.  Any reason to do 2?   Should any buttons be located nearby?

[Gray_Area]

Start at 0 and move up in increments of 10. Find what you like.

[NelsonPJ]

MAME can do this fine on it's own.  When reducing, it works in percentages.  A sensitivity of "1" (the lowest) would make a 1200 transition per revolution spinner be seen as a 12 tpr spinner. 2 would be 24 tpr, 3=36 tpr, 4=48 tpr, 5=60 tpr and 6=72 tpr...and so on.  6 is the magic sensitivity number that coincides with the original 72 tpr encoder used on Tempest and similar titles, when using a 1200 tpr spinner like the TurboTwist 2.

This is interesting... I'd never thought about what the analog sensitivity setting actually meant.  As a recent TurboTwist 2 customer, do you have a list of recommended MAME settings for spinner games?

You have to do some basic math, but here is what you are looking for:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinner_Turn_Count

That's what I was looking for...  What I find most interesting about that wiki page are the comments about how much one turn of the spinner moved on screen - like one turn in Tempest equaled five spaces.  I can remember playing these games in the arcade, but not to that level of detail...