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Author Topic: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up  (Read 9159 times)

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pinzach

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Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« on: September 26, 2011, 10:55:51 am »
Have played a lot of the classics on MAME recently and realized while some have held up very well and still play great, some have not. I was surprised by playing some games that I loved in the arcades in the 80s that I am disappointed in today... And conversely. I have found many games I wasn't into then, that I love now.

My graph of it all is on my MAME blog here...

http://mamezach.blogspot.com/

codefenix

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2011, 11:16:53 am »
Interesting read, although it's largely subjective.  Donkey Kong would be much further to the right on my grid, as it holds up very well today.  It's an overall good quality game that defines the arcade genre.  But again, that's just my opinion.

pinzach

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 11:43:21 am »
Interesting read, although it's largely subjective.  Donkey Kong would be much further to the right on my grid, as it holds up very well today.  It's an overall good quality game that defines the arcade genre.  But again, that's just my opinion.


Indeed, it is ALL subjective.  Thanks for the input.  This is how I see them, not necessarily how I think they are viewed by everyone else.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 11:53:57 am »
Very subjective and yeah, definite argument starter. Take the game topic at hand for example: Donkey Kong. The problem I have today with just about any game that involves "platform jumping" aspects is that I've grown too accustomed to how polished character control has become today. So to then play a game where your character jumps in weird ways, can't fall off the end of girders, has a hard time "grabbing" the ladder, etc and it's a recipe for fustration.  Of course Donkey Kong's controls are tolerable compared to other "platformers" of the era like Roc N Rope.

I'm glad to see Berzerk down in the corner. It's a slow game with awkward controls. But Crystal Castles? come on man....


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 12:28:06 pm »
I'm generally with you on the right side of the graph. Most of those games are the dedicated cabinets I will buy when I figure out how to monetize being lethargic.

Btw, keep up the good work on the site, I love editorial comments on retro gaming. Make the posts longer, though... I read fast.  ;D
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Working on: Pinball Re-theme, Homebrew arcade arena shooter

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2011, 01:30:01 pm »
Missing are the games like TMNT, Simpsons, Gauntlet and several other insert coin to continue games which lost a lot of appeal for me by not actually using coins.

boardjunkie

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2011, 03:34:07 pm »
TMNT and Simpsons ain't exactly in the classic genre....

codefenix

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2011, 03:39:49 pm »
Gauntlet is.   ;)

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2011, 03:45:04 pm »

Donkbaca

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 04:18:42 pm »
I am always astonished that people find centipede fun

Rando

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 04:24:06 pm »
I am always astonished that people find centipede fun
One of my wife's favorites, this would be higher on my "Like it now" radar than my "Liked it then" likely because I was never very good and it would eat my quarters quickly.
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 05:53:28 pm »
Here is some info that is sort of related but only because we are talking games.

Apparently the amount of money spent on games for PCs or Tablets or Pads is on the increase and will soon be much greater than the amount of money spent on console games.  

The biggest driving factor seems to be social network type games and women players.   Spending money in farmville or buying angry birds is an example.   The money spent to buy non tangible items on many pad type games is becoming a huge source of income.   I know WOW started it on the PC but it its now skyrocketing.

There are also alot of older style arcade games gaining new life and money with their release on phone and other touch devices.

Will post the link if I find it again.

Link
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 05:58:01 pm by BobA »

Gatt

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2011, 06:44:16 pm »
@ BobA (Because the quote function hates me)

It's really not much of a surprise,  console games have three fatal flaws...

1.  Platforms are defined by their controls.  Console games are primarily limited to those types of games that can be converted to a gamepad,  excluding significant genres such as RTS,  and making other genres awkward at best.

2.  Consoles are dominated by sequel-itis and "Me too"-itis,  because of their buisness structure.  As closed platforms,  new ideas do not readily enter the system because they usually come from new studios who lack the funding to aquire platform licenses,  and because platform owners ultimately have control.  Brian Fargo,  the old Interplay dev,  once complained that he presented Microsoft with an RPG they wanted to develop,  and were denied a license because "We have RPG's covered for the next couple years".

3.  Consoles suffer from a unchanging hardware base.  They cannot innovate,  because what you had on day 1 is what you have on day 1000,  and you cannot introduce new techniques or features because the hardware itself is limiting over time.  Today,  cell phones have nearly as much memory as the 360 does.

That's why they tried to do hardware refreshes every 5 years,  to avoid the hardware limitations and ease the first two problems by being able to add some new features to the same few games over and over.  But,  much like the SNES/Genesis era,  they've maintained the platforms too long,  made the same game too many times in a row,  and now people are starting to get fatigued from it.  So,  they return to the Open PC platform that has a great deal more potential variety,  lower barrier to entry,  and much more evolved hardware.

Personally,  I think we've seen the last generation of consoles.  I don't think they can overcome the heat and power limitations of the small form factors,  and I think by the time they do,  tablets and multi-multicore home servers pushing screens in the house independently will have taken over.

Which is fine with me,  because tablets lend themselves well to arcade type games,  and I favor PC gaming over console gaming,  though I do own both.

jimmy2x2x

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2011, 06:59:24 pm »
I agree with the bulk of what you are saying:

because tablets lend themselves well to arcade type games

is something I take issue with, how can you possibly justify that?

Arcade type games benefit from rugged, tactile, precise controls - the total opposite of what tablets offer.   I would even go as far as to say that tablets offer the least arcade friendly controls seen on any system.



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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2011, 07:34:12 pm »
Response:

1 - All platforms are designed by their controls, whether it be PC, tablet or console.  If anything else, consoles have been the leaders in terms of the way people interact with games, and continue to do so with their peripherals.  If people wanted to play RTS games with say a mouse and a keyboard, there is nothing stopping them from doing so, all you would have do is release a mouse and keyboard peripheral.  This is not a fatal flaw in my opinion, nor is the argument you are making

2 - That's just the nature of all media, there is a natural gravitation towards copying success. If anything right now, the iphone, ipad and face book are dominated with farmville wanna-be's.  

3- This isn't an issue, because there are very few games that are released that push the envelope in terms of what a console is capable of.  Long hardware cycles are good because they allow for more market penetration, which means a bigger market for games, which translates into bigger investments into game development.  Also, this is not true, peripherals get introduced that add fundamental changes to game play possibilities.  Look at the kinect, look at the move, heck look at the motion plus for the wii, the wii fit board, etc.  Not to mention the rockband controllers.  Constant hardware turnover is BAD for gaming.

The PC platform does NOT have low barrier to entry. You can get a refurbed 360 for a nundred bucks, to find a PC with comparable gaming  capability, you are looking at spending at LEAST that much on a video card.

You keep talking about hardware.  Hardware doesn't matter, its the software that plays on the hardware that matters most.  Look at the failure of the 3DO, the Atari Jaguar and many, many other consoles that touted the virtues of superior hardware.  

The main reason there has been this shift in gaming is because the industry is paying attention to a niche of gamer that it never has before.  The largest jump in gaming has been women in their forties playing farmville and angry birds, you are telling me this hardware driven?  

honkey

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 08:21:23 pm »
Galaga is hands down my favorite game. I also still enjoy Frogger, but it would drop a little bit in comparison to how much I used to enjoy it.

leapinlew

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 09:12:30 pm »
I agree with the bulk of what you are saying:

I don't know how you can agree with any of it. It's a load of crap.

codefenix

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 09:30:08 pm »
Thread subject achieved.

leapinlew

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 09:45:00 pm »
Thread subject achieved.

NO IT HASN'T!

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 12:07:01 am »
Missing are the games like TMNT, Simpsons, Gauntlet and several other insert coin to continue games which lost a lot of appeal for me by not actually using coins.

Arcade games, especially post-JAMMA/90s games SUCK with free credits. Those games ate quarters back in the day, and it's part of the whole experience. Even back then TMNT and all those beat em ups would have no value without the insane challenge. I still find value in playing a game like Double Dragon for example when I moderate how many credits I have and try to get as far as I can. A beat em up with no tokens is like poker with no chips. Not sure how anyone can enjoy any game made after '85 without some token dropping and a game over screen lol. It's even more awkward when these classics get a re-release on consoles with unlimited lives. BOOOOORING.

And as for the graph, I didn't grow up in the 80s so I can't comment on how much I use to like any of those titles, but I gotta say can't believe you once hated Juno First. That's one great game that's really stood the test of time! An all time favorite over here. Same with Tapper! And I agree with Crystal Castles. Compared to other golden age games, CC sucks ass. But you lost me with Frogger and Donkey Kong. And Ghost & Goblins nearly dead center? Blasphemy. Ghost & Goblins is damn timeless my dude lol!


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 01:46:29 am »
Ghosts and goblins is 1000 times more fun than centipede

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 02:51:10 am »
Ghosts and goblins is 1000 times more fun than centipede

Lol now hold up. Is Centipede all that bad or are you bad at Centipede lol. Jus jokin. I like Centipede almost as much as GnG (...almost). I love retro shmups like that centiped, galaga, or juno first. Millipede on the other hand is a piece of garbage.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 07:43:30 am »
I dont see arkanoid on there  :afro:
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2011, 08:46:38 am »
Ghosts and goblins is 1000 times more fun than centipede

You forgot the IMO at the end....


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2011, 10:54:27 am »
Ghosts and goblins is 1000 times more fun than centipede

You forgot the IMO at the end....
I never saw G&G back in the day, heard it mentioned favorably a few times here, tried it on my MAME cab, meh.  :dunno
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2011, 11:05:10 am »

And as for the graph, I didn't grow up in the 80s so I can't comment on how much I use to like any of those titles, but I gotta say can't believe you once hated Juno First. That's one great game that's really stood the test of time! An all time favorite over here. Same with Tapper! And I agree with Crystal Castles. Compared to other golden age games, CC sucks ass. But you lost me with Frogger and Donkey Kong. And Ghost & Goblins nearly dead center? Blasphemy. Ghost & Goblins is damn timeless my dude lol!



Keep in mind, just because I didn't love something back then doesn't mean I hated it.  Lots of games I was just indifferent to.  They just didn't compel me to play them much in the arcades.  So games on my chart like Astro Blaster, Juno First and Black Widow - I didn't hate, I just wasn't into them at all - but now I think they rock.

I didn't deal with sequels in my chart (Ms. Pac-Man, Stargate, etc) but I will say that I thought Ghouls n' Ghosts was a much better game than Ghosts n' Goblins.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2011, 11:18:56 am »
I didn't deal with sequels in my chart (Ms. Pac-Man, Stargate, etc) but I will say that I thought Ghouls n' Ghosts was a much better game than Ghosts n' Goblins.

Galaga is the sequel to Galaxian
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2011, 11:26:27 am »
When Donk was 5, he was bit by a centipede. Ever since then, it's colored his perception of things.
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2011, 11:43:15 am »
The only thing remotely interesting about centipede is the novelty of the trackball.  Ghosts and Goblins is fun, its freakin' hard, but fun.  If you are the type of person that can play centipede for more than 5 minutes, I can't imagine that there would be many games that you would consider boring...


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 12:02:48 pm »
Yea....yer right. Not like Centipede was a big success or anything....

Kangaroo....now *that* was a dog....

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2011, 12:05:53 pm »
Right... because if it was successful it must be good, so DDR is the best arcade game of all time.


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2011, 12:22:25 pm »
Guess anyone who likes Centipede is mentally deficient then. You must be of the fighting game generation. I grew up with and appreciate the "golden age" games....I could care less about most games made after 1985. I must have built 100 fighters from Golden Axe on up and never wanted to play a single one of them.....

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2011, 12:27:49 pm »
I never said they were mentally deficient, just that they have a low entertainment threshold.  I appreciate "golden age games"  but centipede really isn't that fun.  Its a game that cashed in on the trackball novelty. You honestly tell me that can't pass by a centipede without wanting to put a quarter in it?  Can you honestly play that game for more than 20 mins?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 12:48:20 pm by Donkbaca »

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2011, 12:42:58 pm »
I love that we're debating the merits of a fellow enthusiast's opinion. I think the dedication is pretty amazing. It's almost like reading a blog of modern games, just 30 years late. Great stuff "IMO"  First time I've seen the site and I definitely agree in principle with most assessments and it's given me a list of games I haven't even played yet.

Good work, Zach. Don't let the surly elite get you down.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2011, 01:02:12 pm »
The only thing remotely interesting about centipede is the novelty of the trackball. 

I think it has a bit more going for itself besides that.  Centipede is essentially Galaxian/Galaga with a playfield littered with barriers (mushrooms).  The movement of the titular centipede itself can be unpredictable, you're constantly fighting off spiders and flees that come in without warning, and there's no time to relax between levels.  It's a real endurance test when compared to other vertical shooters at the time, and I think that's why people like it.

And yes, I can honestly say that when I walked by an actual Centipede machine at Cedar Point a few weeks ago, I put in a quarter and played it.  Unfortunately, the trackball wouldn't move up or down, but oh well...  :(

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2011, 01:06:13 pm »
It is nothing at all like Galaga.  Galaga only moves alone one axis, the enemies are more diverse, the sound in Galaga is way better.

Centipede is one of the most overrated games.  Its just boring.


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2011, 01:17:09 pm »
Lol now hold up. Is Centipede all that bad or are you bad at Centipede lol. Jus jokin. I like Centipede almost as much as GnG (...almost). I love retro shmups like that centiped, galaga, or juno first. Millipede on the other hand is a piece of garbage.


I think Millipede is an improvement in just about every way over Centipede, including more variety/less repetitiveness, increased game speed and difficulty, all without radical changes to the original game.  It also has that rare quality where you get in a zen-like trance while you are kicking ass, sort of like Robotron.  It's one of the few great sequels I can think of.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 01:18:57 pm by ahofle »

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2011, 01:18:38 pm »
I can play Centipede for 20 minutes. I wasn't very good at it as a kid, but having a trackball on my cab has allowed me to appreciate how much skill is involved. It's a fun game that is more than just a novelty (and trackballs weren't really novel by then- other games had them years earlier).
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2011, 01:20:38 pm »
It is nothing at all like Galaga.  Galaga only moves alone one axis, the enemies are more diverse, the sound in Galaga is way better.

Centipede is one of the most overrated games.  Its just boring.
Wow,
I totally feel the need to defend Centipede!  Love the trackball movement, graphics are clean, sound is great, speed of play is perfect... A great game!  Could I play more than 20 minutes?  No clue, I play my cab in 10 minute increments when taking breaks from other household activities.  For now though, I'll choose to Play Centipede or Galaga or Asteroids for a quick fix over Space Invaders, Galaxian, Pac man, or Donkey kong.

But that's just me and this entire thread is subjective!!  IMO. :)


Another post was just posted, so...
I also prefer Centipede to Millipede.  Don't know why, other than I don't like the look of those arrow things.  I was under the impression that Centipede was the sequel, to me it looks better.  Guess I got that backwards, but personally still prefer the Cent.
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2011, 01:23:57 pm »
I like centipede, but prefer millipede as well.

Robotron wins hands down over all. It is the alpha and omega.  ;) Thought I'd fuel the fire.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 01:57:19 pm by (+_+) »
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2011, 01:38:56 pm »
I've lost all respect for you Donk. Used to find your posts funny and usually spot on. You need some Centipede schoolin' boy!
NO MORE!!

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2011, 01:48:45 pm »
Centipede is also a good get-together game. Lots of people played it way back when and want to play it when they see it on my cab, men AND women.
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2011, 02:09:19 pm »
For the most part I agree with Donk. Centipede wasn't for me, but I realize it wasn't a bad game. Just not for me. Anyhow, maybe this will change his mind


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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2011, 02:11:28 pm »
That's what we're talking about ^

I think the classic games (and the list is long due to varied tastes) are all alive 'n kicking and have held up very well. The reason being most of us are building cabs or controllers to allow these games to live on in our hearts. I know I've spend at least $5000 dollars on the hobby just to be able to continue playing games that most people wouldn't look at twice without laughing at the cheesiness (graphics, sound, simplicty, etc) of it all. But we don't care. The classics are just that... classics. The same thing applies to music. My kids think the classics from yesteryear suck, but I don't care about that either. I laugh to myself because I know what I like and I also know what they've missed growing up with 'our games'. I have probably had more fun overall playing the oldies as a kid that I have had playing the best of breed games of today. IMO of course.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2011, 02:59:06 pm »
I used to like centipede when I was a kid.  Got a trackball,, plugged it in, fired up Centipede and thought "I spent 60 bucks on a trackball to play this????"

I thought, hey maybe I'm missing something, fired it back up played it for a little bit, then decided not to put a trackball on my cab.  Game's not that fun.  Only reason I considered a trackball was to play Rampart.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2011, 03:02:30 pm »
Missile Command?  Marble Madness?  Don't those scratch you where you itch?

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2011, 03:07:37 pm »
Missile Command is so old, and there are so many ripoffs of it that I have no desire to play it in my cab.  Marble Madness is okay, not good enough to dedicate space on my control panel for it.  Just like Ikari Warriors was fun, but I'm not gonna get rotary sticks to play it, not worth it to me.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2011, 04:54:33 pm »
Quote
trackball novelty.

 A trackball isnt a Novelty.  Its a unique method of control... just like a mouse is different from a joystick.  Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

 A trackball for example, is better than a joystick / mouse  in games which you want the player to really work, such as Atari's XO Football. (need to roll the ball faster to run faster).    Trackballs provide direction and acceleration and speed control, that not many things can match.

 I didnt care too much for Centipede back when I was a kid, cause it stomped me... and there were other more interesting games to play.  However, I did like the control of it, and did play it occasionally.

 After we got an Atari 2600, we also picked up a trackball for it.  My stepfather played Centipede often.  He would roll the score counter.  I didnt like him, so I felt it necessary to beat his score.  In a few weeks, I was rolling the score over as well.  I appreciated the game much more after giving it some serious effort.

 The game starts out a little boring and slow, but quickly graduates to insanity level action.. and from that point on, it becomes a lot more fun.   
(especially when the scorpions come out frequently)

 You just have to get to that point where you are willing to give it a fair chance, jump in rather than dip a toe in... Take a bite, rather than just smell it.

 Its not my fav game, but when I see it on location, I do tend to give it a go.

 
Quote
Missile Command is so old

 A LOT of things are Old.  You will be one day too.  But it does not factor into what makes something good or bad.  In fact, not many games are as good and fun as Robotron, and I suspect that even 100yrs from now, people will still be rocking it.

 I prefer Centipede to Missile Command however.

 Crystal Castles however, is one of the best trackball games!  Its like a pumped up version of pacman, without that horribly slow gameplay speed.

 Marble Madness, I can play and replay that game to death and still love it.

 I suspect Donk just does not have the patience or attention span to actually play a game past the 60 second mark.  Not a very competitive player, gives up very easily... which is one reason he will prefer Smash TV, because Smash TV is easy: Just add more credits to win.  Robotron forces you to develop and have skills, if you want to get far into it.


 How anyone could think less of Gorf is also beyond me.  I always have a blast playing it.  Love the different types of levels, different attack patterns, boss ship..etc.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2011, 04:56:20 pm »
How anyone could think less of Gorf is also beyond me.  I always have a blast playing it.  Love the different types of levels, different attack patterns, boss ship..etc.

Agreed.... for once.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2011, 05:28:21 pm »
Yeah, Gorf rules. Hands down cool game. I don't quite enjoy centipede either, but it was never a favorite of mine. I came to recently realize is that I seem to enjoy more spinner games than trackball games these days. It's amazing how time can change a man.  :D

Oh, and needs more 1982  ;D Dig Dug, Pole position, Burgertime, Satan's Hollow.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2011, 05:50:21 pm »
There are many games that I didn't put in the chart.  I will definitely need a part II.

http://mamezach.blogspot.com/2011/09/arguechart-how-classics-have-held-up.html

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2011, 05:54:47 pm »
I definitely didn't include lots of games that I could have.  I'll have to make a chart - part II.

http://mamezach.blogspot.com/2011/09/arguechart-how-classics-have-held-up.html

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2011, 05:58:40 pm »
 :woot I would always be up for a sequel on this.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2011, 06:34:02 pm »
Me too.

JOUST over DEFENDER?

What, no STARGATE?

Can I get a little WIZARD OF WOR or MAJOR HAVOC?

I think age may be playing a role here... argument starter indeed.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 06:36:35 pm by smartbomb2084 »

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2011, 07:13:11 pm »
To each his own.  I'd personally move Frogger and Star Wars up and to the right.  Other than that, I think we have a lot of game tastes in common.  Go Robotron!

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2011, 08:19:02 pm »
Lol now hold up. Is Centipede all that bad or are you bad at Centipede lol. Jus jokin. I like Centipede almost as much as GnG (...almost). I love retro shmups like that centiped, galaga, or juno first. Millipede on the other hand is a piece of garbage.


I think Millipede is an improvement in just about every way over Centipede, including more variety/less repetitiveness, increased game speed and difficulty, all without radical changes to the original game.  It also has that rare quality where you get in a zen-like trance while you are kicking ass, sort of like Robotron.  It's one of the few great sequels I can think of.

Centipede didn't have a whole lotta frills but to me it's one of the most balanced 80s shmups ever. In terms of the game's pace, speed, difficulty, controls, and overall fun factor, Centipede was just a very balanced and well made game. I felt like a lot of the improvements added in Millipede only got in the way and ruined the consistency of the original. The game just feels a bit too quick, confusing, and choppy to me. Their attempts to make the game better just ruined the perfect formula if you ask me. It's not a bad game on it's own merits, but it's like Donkey Kong 3. Compared to it's predecessor it jus feels bland.

Now Missile Command, there's a borin ass game I jus couldn't get into.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2011, 06:46:20 pm »
I'm glad to see Berzerk down in the corner. It's a slow game with awkward controls. But Crystal Castles? come on man....

Slow ? HAHAHAHAHA. Let me see you respond in the first second of a new level above the 10000 score.

Awkward controls ? Left, right, up, down, diagonal and a fire button, what's awkward about that ?

Berzerk (WITH A ZZZZZZZ not BerSerk !) is a brilliant game. I would rate it low as liked in the past. Although I never played the arcade version BITD I played it a lot on the A8 (which is almost a perfect conversion). Thought it was a fun game then, but nothing special.

Now I own the cab....I love it. I think I easily rate it 2nd after my SW cockpit as my favorite.

By the way, Centipede is brilliant too. Can't understand it's getting so much bashing here...

I think DK would be completely up in the right corner for me though...

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2011, 06:57:30 pm »
By the way, Centipede is brilliant too. Can't understand it's getting so much bashing here...

I think DK would be completely up in the right corner for me though...

Actually, only one person has consistantly bashed it. Most of us like it and recognize why it's a classic. I don't think it's a gimmick at all. Arm Wrestling? Now THAT'S a gimmick-y controller!
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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2011, 07:09:19 pm »
Yep, for the record, even though centipede is not my cup of tea, I recognize that it is a very involved game. Probably more strategic than most games at the time. I never quite worked out a good technique, but I am guessing it has to do with how and where you take out the mushrooms.

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Re: Argument Starter - a Graph of how Classic Games have held up
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2011, 07:37:59 pm »
Yep, for the record, even though centipede is not my cup of tea, I recognize that it is a very involved game. Probably more strategic than most games at the time. I never quite worked out a good technique, but I am guessing it has to do with how and where you take out the mushrooms.

The trick is to catch the centipede when its comin straight down a row of mushrooms, then blast that muhfuh piece by piece. works everytime!