Custom Driving Cabinet - WIP Actual Progress!

[mbasile35]

Hey everyone

I decided a few weeks ago to try and build a driving cab, and as the project its going a lot quicker than i thought, i figured its time to start a thread about it. Anyway, I've always loved Mario Kart for N64 and to this day its probably still my favorite video game, so i decided i wanted to theme my cab around Mario Kart 64.To start out, i had previously   tried my hand at cabinet building, but i was lucky enough to have a neighbor throwing away an old NBA Jam. I took all my parts and put them in the NBA Jam cab and i was left with two sides of my custom cabinet. When i decided to build a driving cabinet, i knew i wanted to use my sides that i already had. this is a pic of one of the sides:



I spent the last week or two coming up with something that would fit within the already cut out sides of my previous build but i finally have something that I'm happy with. I really like the newer style driving cabinets like Sega Racing Classic and H2Overdrive so i tried to do something like that. what i came up with is a pretty thin and small cabinet that will house a 26" LCD. Its about 68" high and 28" wide and with the seat attached it'll be about 58" long.



the black is my original design, the green is the seat and seat base which are obviously rough sketches because they're not designed yet. last, the red is my dash board. this is the part that's been the most perplexing so far. I took measurements off of Faster Than Speed cab where i work and that's what i used for the spacing between the pedals, the seat, and the steering wheel, but i just don't think it looks right. what do you guys think? Any input on the dash/ control panel would be great!



So this is where i am right now:

-I've created a template for the sides (the black part anyway) and as soon as i resolve the dash board issue, I'll be cutting those out
-i got a great deal on a red namco seat (similar to the mario kart gp seat)
-I'm waiting for the pc components i ordered to start putting that together

[BadMouth]

Rough measurements for the sega cab are in the info thread linked in my sig.
It's from an older cab, but Sega Racing Classic uses the same base and the seat and pedals are in the same place.

What you do with the dash depends on what you are using for a steering wheel?

[mbasile35]

Cool thanks for that link. I'll definitely check that out. And for the wheel I'm gonna use the happ force feedback wheel and that hack that thesharkfactor did..or at least try lol.

[mbasile35]

Quick update: tonight I cut and routed one side of the main cabinet and prepped the other side for cutting. I ended up making the 20 inch dash all one piece with the side, I figured i can leave it long and trim it if I need to once I get my seat base built and the seat mounted. Also i ended up going wider. Im not sure on te exact dimensions but I traced the back and moved the template up  a few inches and then traced the front. I'll post pics as soon as I can get back to my buddy's shop to take them. Right now it's looking like tuesday night we'll be finishing the sides and hopefully start assembling the main cab.

Also my pc components are set to arrive on Monday so I'm going to start putting that together and getting all the software I need.

Well that's about it for now
Mike

[mbasile35]

Hey everybody

I got a chance to go to my friends shop again and got more work done last night. The first thing wee did was cut and rout the second side so I now have two complete sides. Here's a picture of one side before it was done being routed straight
http://img14.imageshack.us/i/imagedsa.jpg/

And now a picture of both sides completely cut and routed
http://img29.imageshack.us/i/imagemiz.jpg/] [url]http://img29.imageshack.us/i/imagemiz.jpg/[/url]

Then we cut a few of the font panels and start assembling them. To join the panels we're using glue and screws drilled into pocket holes. We ended up doing the bottom front, the bottom floor and the panel that the pedals will be mounted to. Here's a picture of two of the panels joined with the pocket holes
http://img402.imageshack.us/i/imagexek.jpg/

Other than that I got my pc all put together and I've tested a few games.  I'm still waiting fo the seat to build the seat base so I can measure what needs to be trimmed from the dash board. Overall I'm really happy with how this project is going.

Does anyone have an advice on cutting slots for t molding? Can anybody point me in the right direction for the right router bit? And questions and comments are more than welcome


Mike

[mbasile35]

Well nobody seems to be interested in this project so I haven't been updating the thread but I'm making some pretty good progress. As of right now the main cabinet is almost done. Tomorrow I'm going to cut the t-molding slots and hopefully assemble it. Then will come painting and figuring out how I'm going to mount the TV in there (i have a few ideas but not sure what's going to work best). Ill be sure to bring my camera tomorrow and take some good pictures as my phone just is cutting it.

Also. my work on the computer is coming together pretty well. I got a logitech PC wheel and have configured the M2 emulator with and also I've been tweaking the settings to get the best feel in Project 64, which has proved to be a lot tougher than i thought. I've also started configuring Hyperspin but I'm not too happy with it and might just end up going with MaLa with which I'm way more familiar. I'm also trying to get the Dolphin emulator (gamecube and wii) running so i can play those Mario Kart games on the cabinet. Finally, I'm trying to work up the courage to upgrade my 32 bit XP to 64 bit 7. I know it's gonna be a big headache but I think it'll be worth it once its done.

As far as the rest of the cabinet goes I've got a Namco seat (not sure what its from but i got a really good deal on it brand new) and a set of pedals from work. The pedals aren't in the best shape but nothing a little rustoleum can't fix.

My biggest uncertainty right now is audio. I want to do 2 speakers in front, 2 speakers in the seat's headrest and a sub in the back of the seat or in the seat base. The problem is i don't want to spend too much on a 4.1 or 5.1 surround system because I'm pretty sure that none of my games even support surround. What I', thinking of doing is just getting a 2.1 amp to power both front and rear left speak es, both front and rear right side speakers and the sub.


If anybody can offer and advice I'd really appreciate it. Any questions or comments are more than welcome as well, and hopefully I'll have some pics up tomorrow or definitely by the weekend





Mike

[mmonden]

Pics help  you may want to mount the TV with a wall mount. check out Monoprice.com very cheap

Also, Tmolding.com sells the t molding router bit http://www.t-molding.com/store/home.php?cat=6

Good Luck!

[jayska01]

never buy just 20ft either haha

[BadMouth]

Well nobody seems to be interested in this project so I haven't been updating the thread but I'm making some pretty good progress.

Pics get people interested and they don't like having to click links to see them.
So far, this thread has one pic of the side of a cabinet you decided not to build. 

I'm glad you are making progress!
Now show it. 

[Rick]

I'm with this guy up here.  I want pics, and stories work just as well.  Put 'em up!  (Pics, that is.)

 

[Yvan256]

I'm simply repeating what the others have already said, but hosting images for a project on an external website like imageshack isn't helping. First of all ImageShack is simply way too slow, I hate their stupid interface when all I want to do is look at the source image to have the best resolution, etc.

A lot of projects have lost their photos exactly because of external hosting services. Photos on external websites get deleted, URLs change because they remake their website or the service just dies completely.

In short: host your images on ArcadeControls. 

[mbasile35]

Hey guys

Thanks for all the replies..and sorry for gettin a little whiny   

Anyway i got some more done tonight, however i forgot to bring my camera so my phone pictures will have to suffice for one more day. I've also uploaded a some pictures from before. The first pic is the side cut out before i trimmed the dashboard.

The next picture is an example of the pocket holes that we used to put the whole thing together

The third picture is the seat i got. its from something by namco but i don't know what.

The fourth picture is the pedals all taken apart as I'm in the process of restoring them. You can see in the pic that they aren't in the best shape.

And finally, the work i did tonight. I'm really really happy with how it's going. First we did all the t-molding slots which went really well and it was a lot easier than i thought. Then we started assembling. the last two pics are from the end of tonight.

Let me know what you guys think, I'm gonna get back over there Sunday and hopefully be able to take it home.


Mike

[mbasile35]

having trouble uploading the pictures

edit, got it working. when i put them all on the previous post it was too big but this seemed to work

[Martijn]

+ 1 Good progress,+ 1  better quality pics, + 1 better space for building. Keep it up 

[mbasile35]

Hey guys, not too much progress over here but i do have the cabinet back at my house and i'm ready to go! The guy who was helping me with the woodwork needed the space back in his garage so i let him finish up with out me there. I'm pretty happy with it except a few minor details but I'm sure it can all be fixed.



Here's my biggest concern. I think there was a little misunderstanding on how i wanted the top and this is how it turned out. I don't think it'll be a big deal to fix. Basically when i make a panel for the back of the marquee light housing i'm going to attach a short panel for the top and then the marquee retainer will screw into that

Also its hard to see in these pictures but we didn't cut t-molding slots into the part on the sides where the marquee will be because we had already cut a dado on either side for the marquee to slide into and we were worried that the deep t-molding bit we had would disturb the dados. What we did to fix this was glued thing pieces of wood(you can see clearly in the pics) so that the slots wouldnt be to close to the dados, but he forgot to cut the t-molding slots-not too big a deal that can be fixed soon enough.


Here's a shot of the back panel frames. Panels still need to be cut but that can be done later too.



And last pictures of what you've already seen.

As of now, I've updated the pc with win 7 and i'm in the process of configuring all of the front end stuff.I ordered the tv on tuesday and that'll hopefully be here by monday. I haven't had any luck finding a used steering wheel assembly but I'm still lookin and my pedals are about done..just another coat or two of paint and i have to find the pots to interface the pedals with my logitech wheel. I think i figured out what I'm going to do four audio but I'm not positve.


Thats about it for now
Mike

[BobA]

Looking good.     Nice use of pocket holes for assembly.

[BadMouth]

Looks like top notch woodworking.

Got a color scheme or theme in mind?

[mbasile35]

Looking good.     Nice use of pocket holes for assembly.

Looks like top notch woodworking.

Thanks! I'd like to say it was my idea but like i said i had a family friend helping me. He's quite the perfectionist and i'm overly happy with how it came out.

Got a color scheme or theme in mind?

Originally my the was going to be Mario Kart but I may change it to just generic driving. I'm not sure. If i go with the Mario Kart idea i was thinking red cab with blue t-molding and blue speaker grills. Not too sure yet. Any ideas?

[Sp3c7r3]

Originally my the was going to be Mario Kart but I may change it to just generic driving. I'm not sure. If i go with the Mario Kart idea i was thinking red cab with blue t-molding and blue speaker grills. Not too sure yet. Any ideas?

you can check out the real deal

[BadMouth]

Something like this with a generic checkered flag border above and below it would look pretty good and cost next to nothing.
(of course, cut off the wii part)
You could also order Nintendo stickers off fleabay for a few bucks to put above it.
http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Mario-Video-Poster-Print/dp/B0047ELNVK/ref=acc_glance_t_ai_ps_t_3


The wall graphics they have would also work pretty good.
http://www.amazon.com/Mario-Kart-Removable-Decorations-Child/dp/B004NHKKG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1318000463&sr=1-1

[gbeef]

This is looking awesome, a Mario kart cabinet would be pretty sweet

[mbasile35]

This is looking awesome, a Mario kart cabinet would be pretty sweet

Thanks that means a lot coming from you and seeing the awesome racer you did!

Something like this with a generic checkered flag border above and below it would look pretty good and cost next to nothing.
(of course, cut off the wii part)
You could also order Nintendo stickers off fleabay for a few bucks to put above it.


The wall graphics they have would also work pretty good.

Thanks that's really cool. I'll definitely be ordering a few of those posters..can't really beat $0.01 each! And thos wall stickers are perfect too



I've gotten a little more computer work done. I got mario kart double dash and mario kart wii both working on the dolphin emulator. I was really pleased with how well MK Wii played with a wheel. Double Dash took a little bit more tweaking but i think i've got tit down pretty well.

I've also started making a marquee by tracing elements from the Mario Kart 64 box in inkscape. I'm not too far along on that so i'll show you guys that in a little bit


I think that about does it for now
Thanks for following
Mike

[mbasile35]

Hey everyone

Just wanted to show you the mario i traced for the marquee.



this is what i'm tracing off of using inkscape. This was my first time using inkscape and i really like it. It's very easy to use and get used to. Anyway here's what i've got so far:


I just colored it in really quickly. I still have a little more tracing to do on the actual kart. Just uploading this now i've noticed a few minor things but do you guys see any problems? Also where the rating for the game is (the white box on my trace) i'm not sure how i'm going to draw the missing part of the kart frame. I may end up just throwing a nintendo logo over or something. Other than that I think it's looking pretty good i just hope that i'll be able to shade it to look like the pic rather than the flat colors. I'm not really sure how to go about shading it though. My plan was to do all the flat colors in inkscape and then shade it with gimp. I've never used gimp tho so I'm not really sure if that'll be best.

Mike

[BadMouth]

I got mario kart double dash and mario kart wii both working on the dolphin emulator.

Does dolphin still limit you to one controller?
(i.e. you can't map both the keyboard and a gamepad to the player one controls)

It's been a while since I messed with it.

It's still on my cab, but I didn't add it to my front-end because it wouldn't let me use the buttons hooked up to my keyboard encoder in addition to the wheel.

[gbeef]

I got mario kart double dash and mario kart wii both working on the dolphin emulator.

Does dolphin still limit you to one controller?
(i.e. you can't map both the keyboard and a gamepad to the player one controls)

It's been a while since I messed with it.

It's still on my cab, but I didn't add it to my front-end because it wouldn't let me use the buttons hooked up to my keyboard encoder in addition to the wheel.

How you tried mapping your keys in Logitech profiler? Im sure it will play like crap but just wondering.

[mbasile35]

I got mario kart double dash and mario kart wii both working on the dolphin emulator.

Does dolphin still limit you to one controller?
(i.e. you can't map both the keyboard and a gamepad to the player one controls)

It's been a while since I messed with it.

It's still on my cab, but I didn't add it to my front-end because it wouldn't let me use the buttons hooked up to my keyboard encoder in addition to the wheel.

Yeah you can still only use the one controller. I'm only playing the two mario karts as of right now so i haven't had any trouble because I only use like 4 or 5 of the buttons on the wheel

[BadMouth]

How you tried mapping your keys in Logitech profiler? Im sure it will play like crap but just wondering.

It's not a matter of posting keys.  It's that you're limited to ONE input device and my steering wheel doesn't have enough buttons to cover everything.
I can't use my arrow buttons/start, etc because they are going through a keyboard encoder.

You can get by on most games by mapping the steering wheel buttons to the d-pad & start, but it's hard to remember how they're mapped.
(unless you have a d-pad on your wheel)

I could probably make an autohotkey script to make the keys register as wheel buttons, but I figure they'll change dolphin before too long.
I rarely play console games anyway.  

[mbasile35]

hey everybody

Unfortunately i haven't made ANY progress on the cab in way too long, however i have been doing a lot of work on the computer getting all of the software going. As of now, I have Project 64, Dolphin, and Model 2 all working perfectly with my controls and through the frontend. My current task has been learning supermodel 3, which once i took the time to read, was pretty easy. My next task is going to be getting any MAME games i can play with a 270 degree wheel, and i can't think of too many i know i want besides cruis'n. Anyway, if anybody is interested here's a video of my front end,showing the main menu and all the games. Right now  its mostly n64 games which I've never even played most of them so i need to see if i wanna keep them. But here it is:



As far as the cab goes, i'm hoping to start painting soon. from there I need to mount the tv and pc components, then i need to finish restoring my pedals and and acquire a happ FFB steering assembly and complete the logitech hack, build a seat base and get the slide assembly for the seat, or just figure something out that's cheaper, and then get artwork made/ printed.

For the time being most of my time is going to be put into the software. Also does anyone know how to get forcefeed back going on Supermodel? I made sure i have the correct rom in my rom directory for each game and i've also made sure that i'm using the -force-feedback command when lucnhing games. Thanks in advance

I'll update when i can
Mike

[gbeef]

to  get FFB in supermodel working you need the most up to Mame ROM set .

[BadMouth]

Cool.  I didn't know Hyperspin would allow you to have the game wheel at the bottom and have a steering wheel instead of the joystick.
........I might be changing front-ends.  The wheel jumping up an down off the screen is a bit annoying IMO.  Is it possible to keep it stationary?
(I'm asking for myself, not saying you should change yours)

There's not much to making ffb work in Supermodel, just make sure your rom zips (.143u6) contain the drive board roms mentioned in the force feedback section here:
http://www.supermodel3.com/AdvancedUsage.html
If they do and you're using -force-feedback, you shouldn't need to do anything else.

[mbasile35]

to  get FFB in supermodel working you need the most up to Mame ROM set .

I'm pretty sure i do.

Cool.  I didn't know Hyperspin would allow you to have the game wheel at the bottom and have a steering wheel instead of the joystick.
........I might be changing front-ends.  The wheel jumping up an down off the screen is a bit annoying IMO.  Is it possible to keep it stationary?
(I'm asking for myself, not saying you should change yours)

There's not much to making ffb work in Supermodel, just make sure your rom zips (.143u6) contain the drive board roms mentioned in the force feedback section here:
http://www.supermodel3.com/AdvancedUsage.html
If they do and you're using -force-feedback, you shouldn't need to do anything else.

No i totally agree. The default is like all of the different things you can do with the joystick (ie up and down to change and left and right to skip) so thats why it jumps up and down. Ideally i'd like to change it to stationary i just haven't messed with it. I actually couldn't find any animations besides the default so i ended up making that myself with a trial of flash. I drew the wheel in inkscape and exportred it as a png to flash, thats why it looks a little pixelly so i want to re draw it in flash i just have to learn how...better hurry up before those 30 days are up. If you do wanna switch to hyperspin i'll be sure to send that animation your way

As for my romset...scudp.zip it started off as this

except for epr-19338.bin which i read is the driver board rom and i had to download and add that in seperatley.

thanks for the quick replies guys
Mike



edit: didnt realize you wouldnt be able to read those filenames, i'll upload the screenshot right here so you can see full size


edit...again: i just realized the file i downloaded is epr-19338.bin and not epr-19338a.bin I'm gonna rename the file and try again

[BadMouth]

If you can't find the single file, look for .143u6 update roms. They'll be in there.

[mbasile35]

yeah renaming the file didn't work. I'll have to look around for the updated romset. thanks for the help. also i DID figure out how to make the steering wheel animation stationary, just so ya know.


Mike

[mebronx2000]

hey everybody

Unfortunately i haven't made ANY progress on the cab in way too long, however i have been doing a lot of work on the computer getting all of the software going. As of now, I have Project 64, Dolphin, and Model 2 all working perfectly with my controls and through the frontend. My current task has been learning supermodel 3, which once i took the time to read, was pretty easy. My next task is going to be getting any MAME games i can play with a 270 degree wheel, and i can't think of too many i know i want besides cruis'n. Anyway, if anybody is interested here's a video of my front end,showing the main menu and all the games. Right now  its mostly n64 games which I've never even played most of them so i need to see if i wanna keep them. But here it is:



As far as the cab goes, i'm hoping to start painting soon. from there I need to mount the tv and pc components, then i need to finish restoring my pedals and and acquire a happ FFB steering assembly and complete the logitech hack, build a seat base and get the slide assembly for the seat, or just figure something out that's cheaper, and then get artwork made/ printed.

For the time being most of my time is going to be put into the software. Also does anyone know how to get forcefeed back going on Supermodel? I made sure i have the correct rom in my rom directory for each game and i've also made sure that i'm using the -force-feedback command when lucnhing games. Thanks in advance

I'll update when i can
Mike

i see you have crusin exotica is that the mame version or n64 ? thanks

[mbasile35]

i see you have crusin exotica is that the mame version or n64 ? thanks

N64. Cruis'n Exotica doesn't play in MAME, i'm pretty sure its not a speed issue so much as it is bad graphic emulation

[mebronx2000]

i wish someone would do an arcade version !!! 

[mbasile35]

I got mario kart double dash and mario kart wii both working on the dolphin emulator.

Does dolphin still limit you to one controller?
(i.e. you can't map both the keyboard and a gamepad to the player one controls)

It's been a while since I messed with it.

It's still on my cab, but I didn't add it to my front-end because it wouldn't let me use the buttons hooked up to my keyboard encoder in addition to the wheel.

just messing around in dolphin and i realized you actually CAN map keys and buttons from different input devices to one players controls

[gbeef]

how did you get the wheel at the bottom in hyper spin?

[mbasile35]

i made the animation myself with a trial of flash and replaced the file "Special1A.swf" i'm going to clean it up before my trial is up but if you're interested i can send you the file

[gbeef]

Sorry what meant was how did you move  wheel to location from the right to the bottom?
nice work so far on everything.

[mbasile35]

lol ohhhh, well thanks. Its in hyper hq under wheel seetings in the "wheel" tab the first option is style. To put it on the bottom you choose "pin"

[BadMouth]

 

any progress on this?

I was just tinkering with Dolphin and you are correct about being able to map the buttons using multiple devices.
I'm not sure how I got it in my head that I couldn't.

[mbasile35]

any progress on this?

I was just tinkering with Dolphin and you are correct about being able to map the buttons using multiple devices.
I'm not sure how I got it in my head that I couldn't.

Unfortunately no. I ran into a rough patch after i installed the graphics card where hyperspin wouldnt load every time and a bunch of other annoying little problems. I've also been spending a lot of my time building a chirstmas light controller board and messing around trying to make my own sequences.

Anyway the little work i have been doing is strictly computer stuff. The only thing thats keeping the cab from being done is my fear of making the paint look crappy. Once its painted i have everything i need besides art a marquee and the arvade wheel to get it complete.  Have you had anymore luck with FTS ans max speed in Demul? I tried getting them working but gave up quickly. Also, i still can't get FFB in supermodel. I know the roms i have are current and i know that the option is enabled so i dont know what else it could be.

Thanks for checking on this, you made me want to start getting stuff done now!

Mike

[BadMouth]

Have you had anymore luck with FTS ans max speed in Demul? I tried getting them working but gave up quickly. Also, i still can't get FFB in supermodel. I know the roms i have are current and i know that the option is enabled so i dont know what else it could be.

The atomiswave games run "ok".  I never got the brake pedal working and max speed crashes randomly.
Never did get fullscreen working, but you can adjust the size and position of the window to make it appear fullscreen.

I've considered writing up a more comprehensive tutorial on setting up all the emulators.
Maybe even a game by game setup for some, but it's going to take a LOT of time.
I'm reluctant to because most of them require autohotkey scripts and those can behave differently on different computers and operating systems.
If I decide to go through with it, I'll start with Demul and add a section on the Demul .5.7 WIP.

Not sure what to tell you about Supermodel.  I'd still suspect that your roms are missing the required drive board files.
Read the help section at www.supermodel3.com carefully and search the forum.

[ScottoKong]

Hey mbasile35

Any updates?

Have you started you Logitech hacking to the HAPP motor?
I'm a week or so away for getting stuck into it myself and I'm looking for all the help I can get!

SCott

[mbasile35]

Hey mbasile35

Any updates?

Have you started you Logitech hacking to the HAPP motor?
I'm a week or so away for getting stuck into it myself and I'm looking for all the help I can get!

SCott

Nope nothing really new, unfortunately. Badmouth was nice enough to help me with some software issues, and i haven't even got around to playing with them. As far as the wheel goes, i'm still waiting to get a good deal on a used one and i'm sure once i get that this whole project will start coming together. As of right now, i've spent the last month or so messing around with animated christmas lights. I should be done building my display in a week or so, then %100 of my attention is going back into this cab.


Mike

[mbasile35]

Hey everyone


Now that the holidays are just about over I've gotten back into my project. Thanks to Badmouth i finally have force feedback in Supermodel. I am wondering though, is the ffb in supermodel adjustable? I also still need to get MAME roms and i still can't figure out Demul, but those are my last computer issues, then i'm going to start the wheel hack.

I found the wheel and amp, but as far as the power supply goes, is there a certain wattage power supply i should look for?

Anyways, thats all for now!

Mike

[brad808]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

[mbasile35]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

Thanks brad. Have you (or anyone else) messed with these a lot? I just read in the read me file that you can assign values higher than 100. I dont have a hacked arcade wheel yet so maybe its just my wheel, but the FFB seems really weak even at 100 for each option.

[brad808]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

Thanks brad. Have you (or anyone else) messed with these a lot? I just read in the read me file that you can assign values higher than 100. I dont have a hacked arcade wheel yet so maybe its just my wheel, but the FFB seems really weak even at 100 for each option.

I have messed around with them but the only model 3 game I'm going to be using right now is scud race. The others still have quite a few problems that I'm sure will get sorted out in the next few versions of supermodel. My numbers are all below 100 but i doubt they will work for your system. The type of gears used, power supplies used, donor wheel used, amplifier settings and voltage used are all going to play a part so each person will have to mess around and find correct settings depending on how their system is setup.

I basically set my ffb as strong as i felt i would ever need it on my hardware using the windows device manager where you can test ffb effects. From that point I tuned using a combination of logitech profiler and the emulator settings to get a good feeling effect. In most cases it's lower, but i left myself that headroom in the event i ever need it but it's plenty strong.

With that being said I'm still in the process of setting my games up and only have 5 or 6 that i feel really comfortable with.

[BadMouth]

I have scud race cranked way up.
The default is waaaay too weak.
(still using my old logitech MOMO wheel)

Just copy and paste this at the bottom of your cfg file.

Code: [Select]

[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0
I think I have them around 200 in Daytona 2, but I'm not sure.

DirectIpnutFrictionMax doesn't do anything in any of the games
DirectInputSelfCenterMax does nothing in Daytona 2, but affects centering in Scud Race.

DirectInputVibrateMax is the shaking, like when you drive accross grass
DirectInputConstForceMax is what pulls the wheel to one side when you hit the wall or another car.

Also keep in mind that there are ffb strength adjustments in Logitech profiler and under Game Controllers in windows.

[brad808]

I have scud race cranked way up.
The default is waaaay too weak.
(still using my old logitech MOMO wheel)

Just copy and paste this at the bottom of your cfg file.

Code: [Select]

[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0
I think I have them around 200 in Daytona 2, but I'm not sure.

DirectIpnutFrictionMax doesn't do anything in any of the games
DirectInputSelfCenterMax does nothing in Daytona 2, but affects centering in Scud Race.

DirectInputVibrateMax is the shaking, like when you drive accross grass
DirectInputConstForceMax is what pulls the wheel to one side when you hit the wall or another car.

Also keep in mind that there are ffb strength adjustments in Logitech profiler and under Game Controllers in windows.

Just keep in mind those are YOUR settings for your wheel. unless he has the same wheel/ power supply those may not work for him. If I load those settings on my arcade wheel, my stock driving force, my driving force pro or either one of those wheels with a slightly different power supply voltage it will be much different on every wheel.


Edit: just for reference and to show how much they can vary my scud race settings are in the 50s. Profiler settings will also have an effect.

[mbasile35]

Thanks for the help guys. I mess around more when I get home. I was also wondering what the model of servo amp you used was. Can I pretty much use anything for brush type motors? Right now I'm lookig at three different AMC amps with the model numbers: 25A2OT-LF2  25A2OT-LF3 and 25A2OV-LF3. Would any of these work?

[mbasile35]

Hey everybody

I've just ordered a FFB wheel assembly off of a Cruis'n USA. Now I'm looking for a servo AMP, a PSU, and pots. As far as the PSU goes, on the HAPP page with the steering assembly, it shows under "people who bought this also bought" a 24volt power supply thats rated for 5 Amps/120 Watts. So i figure something with those specs will suffice. I'm still waiting for a response to the Servo Amp model question, but after i figure that out I'm either going to just buy one, or buy a broken one for way cheaper off of ebay and try to fix it. As far as pots go I'm about as lost as you could get. I have no idea where i could get the pots from. I need 50k for the pedals and 100k for the wheel. Happ has 100k ones for $35 and still I don't know if it has the right sized shaft. Any leads on where to find the right pots? I'm looking to put them in standard HAPP pedals and wheel.

[BadMouth]

Thanks for the help guys. I mess around more when I get home. I was also wondering what the model of servo amp you used was. Can I pretty much use anything for brush type motors? Right now I'm lookig at three different AMC amps with the model numbers: 25A2OT-LF2  25A2OT-LF3 and 25A2OV-LF3. Would any of these work?

I'll check the model number on mine when I get home, but 
Mine is 30A8T
pretty much any one for brush type motors should work.
The 25A that the part number begins with means that it can handle 25 amps of current.
I know mine starts with 15A 30A (apparently I don't know).  There are links in the driving cab thread to Mark Shaker's and TheSharkFactor's builds.
I'm pretty sure Mark gives the part # and you can see thesharkfactor's in the pictures.
You might be better off with a higher amp one.

I just bought the 15A 30A one because it was what I came accross (I think I paid $40).
There might be better ones out there.
It's probably a case where not enough people have done it for there to be a standard one that everyone uses.

I wouldn't be in any hurry.  I've only tested mine a few times to make sure it was working.  
It isn't in the cab yet and I havent played very many full games on it.
Let Brad808 work out all the kinks, then follow his lead.  

[brad808]

Hey everybody

I've just ordered a FFB wheel assembly off of a Cruis'n USA. Now I'm looking for a servo AMP, a PSU, and pots. As far as the PSU goes, on the HAPP page with the steering assembly, it shows under "people who bought this also bought" a 24volt power supply thats rated for 5 Amps/120 Watts. So i figure something with those specs will suffice. I'm still waiting for a response to the Servo Amp model question, but after i figure that out I'm either going to just buy one, or buy a broken one for way cheaper off of ebay and try to fix it. As far as pots go I'm about as lost as you could get. I have no idea where i could get the pots from. I need 50k for the pedals and 100k for the wheel. Happ has 100k ones for $35 and still I don't know if it has the right sized shaft. Any leads on where to find the right pots? I'm looking to put them in standard HAPP pedals and wheel.

I sent you the link for the servo amp I bought but if for some reason your able to find the other ones cheaper then they should work. Like badmouth said the first numbers are the amp rating. I bought a 6.5 amp power supply based on other peoples research and recommendation stating that the most the happ motor would draw is 6amps. Again not my research I just bought what I was told... and it works. With that being said the servo amps with 12a,15a,25a,30a etc will all work. The 20 after the 25a is going to be the maximum voltage rating on a scale 1:10. The letters after that the T, V whatever are all different revision numbers of the same amp. So in the case of  25A2OT it is 25amps (more then enough), 200volts dc max (more then enough), and revision T. I wouldn't bother buying a broken one and trying to fix it because I purchased mine (30a8t) for around $50 shipped to my door from the states to canada. Wouldn't be worth dinking around fixing a broken one for that price I wouldn't imagine.

I picked up my pots from a "local" (an hours drive away ) electronics supply store. I was having a hard time finding pots with the flatted shaft so I picked up some plastic pots and used a dremmel to create the flat myself. I would have liked to get some nice heavy duty pots with a flatted shaft that would last forever instead of the plastic shaft but the ones I got seem to be working fine and if it ain't broke I ain't gonna fix it. Just make sure you look for linear pots and not "audio taper" pots as it will make a huge difference.

@badmouth: Hey wait a minute I was supposed to be following you 

[BadMouth]

.....crap, thought I sent that as a PM. 

For the pots, I used $3 ones from Radio Shack.  Like Brad808 said, make sure you get linear taper.
They probably aren't rated for as many duty cycles as the arcade ones, but they're easy to get and cheap.

The shafts are standard 1/4".  The body of them is a little smaller than the arcade ones.
The only issue that I had was that because they are smaller, the tab that keeps them from rotating is a little closer to the center.
As a result, I had to lengthen the slot that holds those tabs on the arcade pedals to make them fit.
It only took a few minutes with a dremel.

I really need to get back to work on mine.  I had a few weeks where I couldn't work on anything and have been lazy ever since.

[mbasile35]

Alright cool, thanks for all of the info. I just bought the servo amp and the 24volt power supply. Now i just have to wait to get everything and then i'll be back into the "hard" part of this project.

[mbasile35]

Hey everybody

Well i finally got the Cruis'n control panel today and already i have a problem. The motor on this assembly is  90 volt DC as opposed to the 24 volt one i assumed i was getting. Every happ force feedback wheel i've seen has had the 24 volt motor, and in fact i'd never even heard of a 90 volt motor on these until last week. So now i can either get my hands on just the 24 volt motor or try an find a 90 volt psu. My questions are: are the motors interchangeable? it looks like pretty much the same thing as the 24 volt motors i've seen...and will my servo amp be able to handle 90 volts dc? Has anyone else dealt with the 90 volt motor?

[brad808]

I'm using 90v dc MAX motor

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

You don't want to put 90v to that thing.  It will break your thumbs. 

Like Brad808 said, it's just 90v MAX.
Doesn't mean you have to use 90v.

I think mine is 36v, but I'm only running 24v to it.

[mbasile35]

Ahhh i see. thanks for clearing that up guys. i was a little worried for a second there!

Anyways a little update:  as i mentioned my force feedback assembly came in the mail today, i also i got the servo amp over the weekend and i started dismantling the logitech wheel. I've been busy finishing up the pedal restoration and i'm about to start cleaning up the wheel and shifter i got and i'm also going to be finishing the wheel hack probably this weekend. I've also been doing a little finish work on the cab before i try and paint the thing, i've got a cool idea for the dash board that i'me excited to try but nervous at the same time as i don't want to mess anything up. I know its been waaay too long since i've shown any real progress but little by little it's coming along. I'll get some pics up soon, hopefully by the weekend.

[mbasile35]

Okay so I've been working today on the wheel hack. I got the pots calibrated and the wiring for the amp and motor done but the motor just pulls to the left or right. Also when i went to put everything away i noticed the big resistor on the main pcb was super hot. should i be worried about this? I'm using the driving force ex by the  way. Anyway does anyone have any ideas on the left or right pull? It's not like the gradual pull that I've read it about its just as soon as you move the wheel it slams into the stop. I got things to do tonight so I can't mess with it anymore. Hopefully tomorrow.

[ScottoKong]

G'day

Sounds like you need to reverse the wires going to the HAPP motor - some call this uncentering?!?!

Not sure about the HOT component - I haven't been touching anything!

Scott

[mbasile35]

Yup that, solved that. But now its "centering violently" just going back and forth. Instead of trying to explain i took a video. I played daytona and it seemed like the force feedback wasn't doing anything, and as you can see in the video when i press buttons to test effects it doesn't really change.

[BadMouth]

Only got time for a quick reply.....

Does it stop when you grab hold of it?  Most of us have experienced that, but the wheel wasn't moving that violently.
Are you using the original logitech power adapter or a 12v one? (we are using 12v ones)
Check Brad808's thread for the dip switch settings he used on the servo amp.

I'll try to think of other causes.

[wizkid32]

One word:  Awesome!!!!!!!!

[gbeef]

Yeah i was experiencing the exact same thing with the wheel. If you figure this out let me know... its been driving me insane.

[brad808]

Before I say what the problem was with my rattle (which might be the same for you) can you just confirm that you have all your wires hooked up correctly. It's hard to tell in the video but it almost looks like your motor outputs from your logitech pcb are going to the wrong pins on the amc. They should be going into - ref in and + ref in (pins 4 and 5) directly beside each other.

[brad808]

Assuming all your wires are hooked up correctly and your amc is setup correctly, the problem looks very similar to what I’m able to reproduce by turning up my “centering feedback” and my “spring feedback”. Some pretty interesting things happen when you put a voltmeter on the motor outputs of the amc and look at the results as you change settings regarding the different feedback parameters in logitech profiler/ windows game controller menus.

With my setup (might be slightly different from yours due to power supplies) I’m able to produce the “rattle” by sending a centering feedback signal that is slightly higher then 3V at full lock from the logitech motor outputs to the amc inputs.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech are BELOW 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc and slowly move the wheel to full lock I will see my voltmeter move in a linear fasion from 0V at center to 24V at full lock.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech wheel are ABOVE 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc I will see 0V at center and then it will reach 24V about 10% of the way to full lock (hold on tight). I believe this is the primary cause of the “rattle”
What appears to be happening is the motor suddenly gets shot 24V which sends the wheel flying past its center point so it tries to correct itself and the same thing happens.    

This may be why you aren’t seeing any ffb effects when you use blown tire, wooden bridge etc  because the wheel is basically being feed a bunch of 24V signals (max) from the amc.
This is the exact reason why I took the playstation out of my cabinet because the majority of games don’t allow you to control individual ffb parameters. They simply have an “overall” type ffb control, either more or less, and unfortunately not something I could easily automate while switching games (that I’ve figured out yet anyways). The beauty of logitech profiler is it allows you to change each of the parameters. In other words games that have a centering or spring feedback that will equal a voltage larger then 3V from the logitech at full lock will have the option to turn down that individual parameter while still being able to maintain a strong “effects” feedback for car hits things like that.

Again the actual voltage that YOUR wheel goes crazy might be a little bit different then the voltage that MY wheel goes crazy. I'm not sure what the exact differences are between the driving force and the driving force ex are but I would assume minimal. Power supply voltages will definitely play a large part though. The point is there was a very exact voltage where my wheel would go from a nice steady 0V to 24V at full lock and then up the voltage and now my wheel goes 0V to 24V about 10-20% of the way to full lock (creates rattle). Figure out where it is on yours and you should be golden.

Now to start trouble shooting this:
1)    Go through check all your wires
2)   Make sure the amc is setup correctly, My dip switches are 1,3,5 to the left all others to the right (I'm able to replicate my ffb effects using different dip switch options but this is where I'm at now). Loop gain pot all the way to the left. My refernce in was adjusted using a voltmeter to equal 24V at full lock from the amc motor outputs. Adjust the offset using the voltmeter if you see one side reads 23.5 at full lock and the other side reads 24V at full lock. Make sure they both read 24V equally.  

edit: you don't have to have it reach 24V at full lock you could use say 20V or 18V etc to lower the strength. To be honest I can't remember if mine is at the full 24V or if it is slightly less.

3)   Turn centering feedback and spring all the way to 0% and see if you have ffb effects. If so slowly turn up centering until you find it's peak. (wiggle the wheel a bit to get it started to see if it will take off and rattle, just pull it left or right a bit and let go.)

Hope it helps you figure it out


As a side note to everything here I'm not entirely convinced that using a 12V power supply is necessary if the hack is only being done on a computer (where you have access to ffb control logitech profiler/ windows manager etc). From what I can tell the Voltage leaving the logitech motor outputs is directly related to the percentage of ffb effects parameters. The important thing is that the amc can't handle any reference in above 15V. So basically if you used the stock logitech power supply (24V) but had the ffb sliders turned down low enough the actual signal leaving the logitech motor outputs can still be below 15V and would be acceptable for the amc reference in. But if you have a spare 12V dc power supply laying around then it would be safe to use knowing that you will never send the amc a signal above 15V vs the stock power supply that has the potential (if you arent careful) to send 24V and damage the amc.

[mbasile35]

Sorry for the delay guys, started a new job last week and the long hours are catching up to me. Anyway thanks for all of the replies, i'll be messing with my setup shortly.

Only got time for a quick reply.....

Does it stop when you grab hold of it?  Most of us have experienced that, but the wheel wasn't moving that violently.
Are you using the original logitech power adapter or a 12v one? (we are using 12v ones)
Check Brad808's thread for the dip switch settings he used on the servo amp.

I'll try to think of other causes.

Yup it stops when you grab on, but continues to move when you let go...like if you were to stop it on center it wouldn't sit there until nudged like you'd think because its already center...if that makes sense. Using the logitech 24v supply..whoops! Guess i should have read everyone's threads a little better

Assuming all your wires are hooked up correctly and your amc is setup correctly, the problem looks very similar to what I’m able to reproduce by turning up my “centering feedback” and my “spring feedback”. Some pretty interesting things happen when you put a voltmeter on the motor outputs of the amc and look at the results as you change settings regarding the different feedback parameters in logitech profiler/ windows game controller menus.

With my setup (might be slightly different from yours due to power supplies) I’m able to produce the “rattle” by sending a centering feedback signal that is slightly higher then 3V at full lock from the logitech motor outputs to the amc inputs.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech are BELOW 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc and slowly move the wheel to full lock I will see my voltmeter move in a linear fasion from 0V at center to 24V at full lock.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech wheel are ABOVE 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc I will see 0V at center and then it will reach 24V about 10% of the way to full lock (hold on tight). I believe this is the primary cause of the “rattle”
What appears to be happening is the motor suddenly gets shot 24V which sends the wheel flying past its center point so it tries to correct itself and the same thing happens.   

This may be why you aren’t seeing any ffb effects when you use blown tire, wooden bridge etc  because the wheel is basically being feed a bunch of 24V signals (max) from the amc.
This is the exact reason why I took the playstation out of my cabinet because the majority of games don’t allow you to control individual ffb parameters. They simply have an “overall” type ffb control, either more or less, and unfortunately not something I could easily automate while switching games (that I’ve figured out yet anyways). The beauty of logitech profiler is it allows you to change each of the parameters. In other words games that have a centering or spring feedback that will equal a voltage larger then 3V from the logitech at full lock will have the option to turn down that individual parameter while still being able to maintain a strong “effects” feedback for car hits things like that.

Again the actual voltage that YOUR wheel goes crazy might be a little bit different then the voltage that MY wheel goes crazy. I'm not sure what the exact differences are between the driving force and the driving force ex are but I would assume minimal. Power supply voltages will definitely play a large part though. The point is there was a very exact voltage where my wheel would go from a nice steady 0V to 24V at full lock and then up the voltage and now my wheel goes 0V to 24V about 10-20% of the way to full lock (creates rattle). Figure out where it is on yours and you should be golden.

Now to start trouble shooting this:
1)    Go through check all your wires
2)   Make sure the amc is setup correctly, My dip switches are 1,3,5 to the left all others to the right (I'm able to replicate my ffb effects using different dip switch options but this is where I'm at now). Loop gain pot all the way to the left. My refernce in was adjusted using a voltmeter to equal 24V at full lock from the amc motor outputs. Adjust the offset using the voltmeter if you see one side reads 23.5 at full lock and the other side reads 24V at full lock. Make sure they both read 24V equally. 

edit: you don't have to have it reach 24V at full lock you could use say 20V or 18V etc to lower the strength. To be honest I can't remember if mine is at the full 24V or if it is slightly less.

3)   Turn centering feedback and spring all the way to 0% and see if you have ffb effects. If so slowly turn up centering until you find it's peak. (wiggle the wheel a bit to get it started to see if it will take off and rattle, just pull it left or right a bit and let go.)

Hope it helps you figure it out


As a side note to everything here I'm not entirely convinced that using a 12V power supply is necessary if the hack is only being done on a computer (where you have access to ffb control logitech profiler/ windows manager etc). From what I can tell the Voltage leaving the logitech motor outputs is directly related to the percentage of ffb effects parameters. The important thing is that the amc can't handle any reference in above 15V. So basically if you used the stock logitech power supply (24V) but had the ffb sliders turned down low enough the actual signal leaving the logitech motor outputs can still be below 15V and would be acceptable for the amc reference in. But if you have a spare 12V dc power supply laying around then it would be safe to use knowing that you will never send the amc a signal above 15V vs the stock power supply that has the potential (if you arent careful) to send 24V and damage the amc.

Thanks brad for that awesome post...lots of good info! Anyway i'm not too sure whats goin on in my picture there but i'm definitely wired to pins 4 and 5 on the amc. I'm gonna have to look around for 12v wall supply but in the mean time maybe i'll try to lower the sliders like you suggested.



One new problem i have is that in the midst of moving my setup around from my desk and out of the way and such i broke a leg and pad for the wheel pot off of the main pcb. If you were to hold the driving force ex pcb with the silk screen letters facing up its the leg all the way on the right that's broken. there seems to be a VERY small via that i may try to solder to but do any of you guys who're using the driving force ex have any other plans? I got a really good deal on ebay for my wheel so it won't be so bad if i have to buy a new one...just finding one will be a pain.


Anyway thanks again for everything guys, i'll report back with my findings..then again who knows what i can do with that broken pin...

Mike

[gbeef]

Why can you use the stock 24V vs 12V? is there too much signal? Do you have a suggested 12V supply out there/

[BadMouth]

Managed to find enough time to do a little testing with the driving force ex pcb this evening.

My wheel doesn't shake like that by itself, but if I move it to the side and let go, it will do the same thing yours is doing.
If I grab hold of it, it stops though.
If I reduce the centering feedback to 10%, it will stop doing that.  I played Daytona and the centering force that the game applies takes over and works fine.  Still had no wobble in the menu.
BUT, if the car sits still on the track, I get the wobble.  
It goes away when the game ends and goes back to the menu.

It did the same thing whether using 12v or 24v, although the resistor you mentioned getting hot only got slightly warm with the 12v adapter.

Not really a solution, but that's all I had time for this evening.
I'm probably sticking with the MOMO in my cab, but I'd like to figure this out.

[brad808]

Managed to find enough time to do a little testing with the driving force ex pcb this evening.

My wheel doesn't shake like that by itself, but if I move it to the side and let go, it will do the same thing yours is doing.
If I grab hold of it, it stops though.
If I reduce the centering feedback to 10%, it will stop doing that.  I played Daytona and the centering force that the game applies takes over and works fine.  Still had no wobble in the menu.
BUT, if the car sits still on the track, I get the wobble.  
It goes away when the game ends and goes back to the menu.

It did the same thing whether using 12v or 24v, although the resistor you mentioned getting hot only got slightly warm with the 12v adapter.

Not really a solution, but that's all I had time for this evening.
I'm probably sticking with the MOMO in my cab, but I'd like to figure this out.

If you have centering feedback AND spring feedback turned down to 10% and you still get wobble on the track when you are stopped try messing around with the ffb parameters in the emulator ini.

The M2 games were all very different for me so each game is in its own folder with its own emulator.exe file and its own ini so you can change the following on a per game basis.
;FE_CENTERING Effect (Spring centering effect)
;FE_CLUTCH Effect (Friction, wheel turn hardness)
;FE_LEFT,FE_RIGHT (Constant force in a direction)
;FE_UNCENTERING (Sine force, wave the wheel, rumble)

I just checked and confirmered that my wheel does not have the "rattle" when stopped on the track... but I remember it did at one point and those would be the parameters I messed with.



I'm not sure what the default settings are but for daytona these are mine right now and they seem to be working really good. You will definitely have to tweak them for your system a little bit but it might be a good starting place. I have good ffb, good resistance, centering etc. (logitech profiler centering and spring both at 12% on my system)

;FORCE EFFECTS PARAMETERS
;FE_CENTERING Effect (Spring centering effect)
FE_CENTERING_Gain=0.5      ;Global gain
FE_CENTERING_Coefficient=10000   ;0-10000
FE_CENTERING_Saturation=10000   ;0-10000
FE_CENTERING_Deadband=1000   ;10%

;FE_CLUTCH Effect (Friction, wheel turn hardness)
FE_CLUTCH_Gain=0.0      ;Global gain
FE_CLUTCH_Coefficient=10000   ;0-10000

;FE_LEFT,FE_RIGHT (Constant force in a direction)
FE_LEFT_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_LEFT_Magnitude=10000      ;0-10000
FE_RIGHT_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_RIGHT_Magnitude=10000   ;0-10000


;FE_UNCENTERING (Sine force, wave the wheel, rumble)
FE_UNCENTERING_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_UNCENTERING_Magnitude=10000   ;0-10000
FE_UNCENTERING_Offset=-200
FE_UNCENTERING_Phase=0
FE_UNCENTERING_Period=56000




It may be the "wheel turn hardness" because I notice that is at zero but play around and one of those should fix it.

Edit: Looks like default is 1.0. I have my hardness at 0 and I'm still stiff 

[mbasile35]

Hey guys

did a little more messing around with my setup and I'm a lot closer to where i want to be. for starters i was able to fix the driving force ex pcb by soldering the wire from the pot onto the TP1 pad. The input to the computer is a little bit "shaky" on screen if that makes sense, but its not too bad and it could be the pot for all i know.

I also took your guys' advice and switched to a 12 volt adapter. I metered the AMC inputs with all FFB effects down to 5% and it still maxed out at 20 volts. after switching the adapters and turning the effects back up to 100% i got much better results. The motor still wobbles but much less violently. Again, rather than trying to explain everything i took a video, this time messing around with the wheel in daytona's attract mode and then a race in daytona. One weird thing i noticed was that when you put stress on the motor (holding it all the way left or right for example) it makes an odd sound...sorta of beep but not really. Anyway you can ehar the sound in the video, especially at the end when the camera gets close to the motor.



thanks again for all the help. hopefully i can get this thing working even better soon!

[brad808]

Have you tried turning your reference input gain potentiometer on the amc all the way down and slowly turning it up?

Sent from my Desire HD

[brad808]

If one of you guys doing this hack want to do an experiment I have an idea that might be worth a shot regarding the rattle.

#### warning just an idea/ experiment/ test ####

1) Hook the logitech pcb to the 100k steering pot and remove the logitech motor outputs from the amc.

2) calibrate the wheel in logitech profiler

3) using a 12v power supply on the logitech pcb measure the voltage at center, full lock left and full lock right.

4) physically move the potentiometer to the point that the calibration will definitely be different.

5) recalibrate the wheel in logitech profiler.

6) remeasure the voltage at center and both sides full lock.

Ideally those voltages should both match. I'm curious though (haven't tested myself just brainstorming) if the ffb voltage isn't changing when we recalibrate our wheels. If that is the case then our pots would have to be installed at exactly center, not slightly off and recalibrated to center in software (which works fine for steering, but maybe not ffb).


I wouldn't imagine this is the case but it would be nice to rule out as a possibility

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

The input to the computer is a little bit "shaky" on screen if that makes sense, but its not too bad and it could be the pot for all i know.

Most likely just the connection.  Mine did that when I had everything patched together with alligator clips.

[BadMouth]

Some more thoughts to go with brad808's brainstorming....

1.  I had the same issue with the MOMO hack when I first hooked it up, so I don't think this issue involves the potentiometer.

2.  The wobbling can also be corrected by turning down the gain on the servo amp, but then all the ffb effects are weak.
     But what happens if we turn down the gain until the wobbling stops, then run a higher voltage to the motor?
     I have a big old adjustable lab power supply that I can try it with, but I don't remember how high it goes.
     (could help with playstation use if it actually works).

3.  It would be nice to isolate whether this is a problem with the servo amp,
     or if the wheel just has so much momentum that goes past center.
     (my wheel is detachable.  I can try it with no wheel present)
     I suspect it's a signal thing, or some kind of delay introduced by the AMC, or the happ motor being slow.

4.  I still don't understand what most of the DIP switches on the servo amp do.  

I might get to leave work at a reasonable hour tonight.  If so, I'll do some testing.

  

[gbeef]

I tried turning down the gain also. FFB is null ill have to try the centering see what happends.
And the DIP`s i have no clue either Brad what are your settings on

Ill need to find a 12V see if that works.

[BadMouth]

If one of you guys doing this hack want to do an experiment I have an idea that might be worth a shot regarding the rattle.

#### warning just an idea/ experiment/ test ####

1) Hook the logitech pcb to the 100k steering pot and remove the logitech motor outputs from the amc.

2) calibrate the wheel in logitech profiler

3) using a 12v power supply on the logitech pcb measure the voltage at center, full lock left and full lock right.

4) physically move the potentiometer to the point that the calibration will definitely be different.

5) recalibrate the wheel in logitech profiler.

6) remeasure the voltage at center and both sides full lock.

Ideally those voltages should both match. I'm curious though (haven't tested myself just brainstorming) if the ffb voltage isn't changing when we recalibrate our wheels. If that is the case then our pots would have to be installed at exactly center, not slightly off and recalibrated to center in software (which works fine for steering, but maybe not ffb).


I wouldn't imagine this is the case but it would be nice to rule out as a possibility

Sent from my Desire HD

Test 1 (brad808's test)

Definitely odd results.  My wheel has to be slightly right for the voltage to be at 0.0v (centered).
Recalibrating it and picking a center point other than the real center made no difference.
The wheel still had to be in the same place as the first time to register 0.0v
It seems that the ffb center is different than the calibrated center, which doesn't seem to be a good design.

I should also note that setting the center in calibration didn't seem to affect the on-screen wheel once I exited calibration.
Even though I changed to a different center point, the onscreen wheel still had the real one.  I didn't try closing the window and opening it back up.
I did go through the calibration process, center the wheel, then remove the pot, adjust it until it read 0.0v, and reinstall it centered so the ffb center was the same as the calibration center.  It made no difference in the wobble.
  
Also found it odd that I was still getting 18-19v when using the 12v power supply (centering ffb set to 100%), but the big resistor mbasile mentioned stays cooler.

I'd noticed when I hooked up the pot and the driving force ex board that the happ wheel continues turning after the wheel onscreen hits the stops and going through calibration doesn't correct it completely.
The driving force ex must have had less than 270 degrees of travel.  I'm wondering what result using an 80k pot would yield.  I don't think it would do anything for the shaking issue, but it could make the calibration more correct.

I'm going nuts from working long hours, so it would be nice if someone duplicated this test to make sure it really does work that way and I didn't halucinate the whole thing.

Test 2

Removing the steering wheel made no difference.  The momentum of the wheel is not an issue.  (doesn't mean that the momentum of the motor armature still isn't).

Test 3

I turned down the gain on the servo amp until the wobbling stopped.  Then I turned the voltage up to 36v.  When I pulled the wheel to the side and let it go, the wobbling was back.  Then I turned the gain back up high and turned the voltage down until the wobbling stopped (around 14v).  It seems the overall physical force of the ffb is the determining factor.  It doesn't seem to matter whether the force is reduced in windows or on the servo amp.  Once the ffb is strong enough to be fun, the wobbling returns.

That's all I feel like doing tonight.  Going to let that settle into my brain and see if I have an epiphany.  

EDIT: Just had another idea.  Next time I will hook a small ffb motor up to the servo amp to see if it has the wobble.  I'm thinking that if the momentum of the big happ motor is the issue, a small motor wouldn't experience the wobble.  If it doesn't, then we can rule out the servo amp hack as the culprit.

Also might try to think of a way to add constant resistance to the happ setup to see if it stops the wobble without affecting the feel of the wheel too much.  It might not be that noticeable since we always have centering resistance present anyway.

[brad808]

@ gbeef - My dips are 1,3,5 to the left all others to the right (voltage mode)

@badmouth - Thanks for testing that out for me, it's good to know at least. With that being said the more I think about it the more it doesn't really matter. As far as I can tell the "offset" pot on the amc is basically to compensate for that exact thing. The manual says "Offset / Test. Used to adjust any imbalance in the input signal or in the amplifier." So even though the ffb doesn't correct itself which I would think that it should? I think we can manually do it without too much trouble


This is my note taking for the night basically in this order, I don't want to muck around too much with adjusting the potentiometers and stuff just yet because believe it or not my wheel works really good  


0.86v measured from current monitor output (pin 8 on amc where 3.8 amps = 1V) at highest... Max explosion
0.86 x 3.8 = 3.268 amps
Think I did this right

***** Although it looks a little confusing/boring there is some potentially very useful info here just read to the bottom*******
If your super lazy just read the bottom part

Logitech motor outputs with centering feedback at 12%
Full left - minus1.31v
Full right - 1.80 v
Center - 0.20v
Explosion 9.5v Max approx

Logitech motor outputs at 100%
Full left - minus 11.14v
Full right - 11.15v
Center - 0.20v
Explosion 9.5v max approx

Both these move smoothly from 0v center to the Max v at either side full lock

Happ motor center 0.01v has been corrected for using offset
Centering at 12%
Full left - minus 16.48v
Full right - 16.47v
Explosion - 23.6 v Max approx

Move to 100% centering
Rattle obviously
Can't test most because wheel is barely responsive

*** These seemed a little different (lower then what I remembered) to me for some reason possibly related to below... I acidentally unplugged my wheel from the computer and replugged it in. When I re-checked the voltages to make sure they were correct I noticed they were different.. After checking them all more then once the first time. Which leads me to more exploration.

#Take 2
unplug and plug in without opening main calibration type page in windows game controllers. The one where you can see the wheel move back and forth

Logitech motor outputs at 12%
Full left - minus 7.55v
Full right - 8.05 v
Center - 0.24v
Explosion - can't test without window open

Opening calibration window
Logitech motor outputs at 12%
Full left - minus1.31v
Full right - 1.80 v
Center - 0.20v
Explosion 9.5v Max approx

Close widow without unplugging
Logitech motor outputs at 12%
Full left - minus1.65v
Full right - 1.80 v
Center - 0.20v
Explosion 9.5v Max approx
Same as above

Unplugging and only opening Logitech profiler

Logitech motor outputs at 12%
Full left - minus 7.55v
Full right - 8.05 v
Center - 0.24v
Explosion - can't test without window open

Happ motor outputs      Logitech centeringat 12%
Full left - minus 23.7v
Full right - 23.6 v
Center - 0.00v
Explosion - can't test without window open

Happ motor outputs      Logitech centering at 100%
Full left - minus 23.7v
Full right - 23.6 v
Center - 0.00v
Explosion - can't test without window open
No rattle wtf?

With centering at 100% still
Open up windows game controllers screen
Rattle

Close windows controllers screen
Still rattle


So in clonclusion I don't really know what the hell is going on but I think it's safe to say that windows game controller screen where you see the wheel move will without a doubt change how your wheel reacts. Obviously when I tested mine I used the windows screen to calibrate the wheel and test explosions and stuff.... but I must have either restarted the computer or unplugged my wheel before I went through and used my voltmeter to calibrate the amc.

People with problems try either unplugging or restarting and NOT opening up windows game controller screen, set up your amc with a voltmeter to adjust input gain etc and see how your wheel reacts. This may very well have been what I did (cant confirm) but at the time not thought anything of it and assumed they were both working equally. This may also explain why I "setup" the amc probably 20 or so different times   . It basically got to a point once that it worked perfectly so I left it and have tried to muck around with it as little as possible so as to not screw anything up.

This would explain why my wheel works in windows game controller screen (which I now know is probably at a much lower voltage) and why my wheel still feels great during games. If other people are setting their wheels in windows game controller screen (like I've been telling people to do [I was only trying to help ]) Then when they load a game it'll be WAY to high.

Hopefully it can help, at the very least add to the research that there definitely are some strange things going on here

[brad808]

 
Also found it odd that I was still getting 18-19v when using the 12v power supply (centering ffb set to 100%), but the big resistor mbasile mentioned stays cooler.

Have you actually checked your power supply with a voltmeter? I have a strong feeling that your power supply isn't putting out a proper 12V like it should. As far as I know it's the only reason you would be able to achieve any voltage over 12.

The first "12v" power supply that I had on my logitech wheel was actually reading closer to 16V or 17V which isn't good for the amc which is setup to accept 10-15V max at the reference input.

[BadMouth]

 
Also found it odd that I was still getting 18-19v when using the 12v power supply (centering ffb set to 100%), but the big resistor mbasile mentioned stays cooler.

Have you actually checked your power supply with a voltmeter? I have a strong feeling that your power supply isn't putting out a proper 12V like it should. As far as I know it's the only reason you would be able to achieve any voltage over 12.

The first "12v" power supply that I had on my logitech wheel was actually reading closer to 16V or 17V which isn't good for the amc which is setup to accept 10-15V max at the reference input.

No, I'll check it when I do another round of testing.  I decided for my next test to reassemble the driving force ex wheel, but run the force feedback through the AMC (to the original little ffb motor).  If I get a wobble then, we know it's the AMC causing the issue.  I don't think it is.  These logitech wheels have a fair amount of resistance when not hooked up to anything.  I think between that, and the smaller motor, it prevents the centering feedback from slingshotting the wheel past center, then needing feedback in the other direction to correct (wobbling). 

Definitely weird about the feedback being a different strength in the windows calibration screen.

[brad808]

 
Also found it odd that I was still getting 18-19v when using the 12v power supply (centering ffb set to 100%), but the big resistor mbasile mentioned stays cooler.

Have you actually checked your power supply with a voltmeter? I have a strong feeling that your power supply isn't putting out a proper 12V like it should. As far as I know it's the only reason you would be able to achieve any voltage over 12.

The first "12v" power supply that I had on my logitech wheel was actually reading closer to 16V or 17V which isn't good for the amc which is setup to accept 10-15V max at the reference input.

No, I'll check it when I do another round of testing.  I decided for my next test to reassemble the driving force ex wheel, but run the force feedback through the AMC (to the original little ffb motor).  If I get a wobble then, we know it's the AMC causing the issue.  I don't think it is.  These logitech wheels have a fair amount of resistance when not hooked up to anything.  I think between that, and the smaller motor, it prevents the centering feedback from slingshotting the wheel past center, then needing feedback in the other direction to correct

That'll be a good test and will probably tell us a lot. I've been suspicious about the resistance in our hacks causing problems myself because the logitech wheel clearly had a lot more.

I still can't wrap my head around why the motor outputs on the amc will react so differently when the voltage coming in is so low. although the tests would have been done using the windows game controllers screen, which may cause problems. The voltage moved smoothly at the logitech motor outputs at 100% centering from 0v to 12v yet on the amc they jumped from 0 to 24v in about 1/10th of the travel distance. That is with me holding the wheel and slowly moving it, no "overshooting" or wheel inertia could have come into play.

This makes me suspicious about some specification that we are ignoring on the amc that might be having problems. Maybe the centering feedback is a long duration signal vs quick duration for effects?

Maybe windows game controller screen drops the voltage down and ups the current or something like that? Potentially causing the amc to overload. Just a thought.

I'll also add that when i loaded up gt4 on my ps2 with a completely stock driving force, load a straight test track with hands off wheel it would eventually rattle (less violently then what we see on the hacks while driving, and stop when i stopped the car.

I'll add that i was at an arcade about a month ago and 1 game there was a nascar i think it was '09 had an unpayable amount of rattle. So much so that i got up and went to a new game. I have no idea what type of system nascar uses but the rattle looked very similar to what we can create. May be irrelevant.

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

retrorepair sent me this link to a thread on arcade otaku about setting up this hack: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tQSFsgzc1lwJ:forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D6%26t%3D13444%26start%3D90+site:forum.arcadeotaku.com+arcade+otaku+thesharkfactor&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

You need to have an account and sign in to see the whole thread.  I haven't had time read the whole thread yet, but the page I can see looks promissing.
Looks like they have a setup process that ends up making it useable for both PS3 and PC.

[brad808]

retrorepair sent me this link to a thread on arcade otaku about setting up this hack: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tQSFsgzc1lwJ:forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D6%26t%3D13444%26start%3D90+site:forum.arcadeotaku.com+arcade+otaku+thesharkfactor&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

You need to have an account and sign in to see the whole thread.  I haven't had time read the whole thread yet, but the page I can see looks promissing.
Looks like they have a setup process that ends up making it useable for both PS3 and PC.

That's the thread i got most of my information to stay my hack from. There is a lot if good stuff for sure, unforunately none of the problems were really solved tough. Just to clarrify my wheel (and any one else that has a similar hack) does work with a ps2/ ps3. The problem is it isn't exactly what i would call an ideal hack. It's very limiting on what you can control as far as ffb is concerned. It definitely does work though. I pulled my ps2 for the time being so i could concentrate on one thing at a time.

.... My front end still isn't setup haha but i do have about 5 games in it so far.

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

Haven't had time to do any more testing, but had another idea:

I wonder if the gearing between the motor and the wheel affect centering.
I don't think it would be this complicated, but what if the logitech pcb sends a signal expecting to turn the wheel X amount, but the wheel turns farther because our motor & wheel aren't geared the same as the original. 
It would need a smaller gear on the motor or larger gear on the wheel to slow it down, but there isn't room for a huge change on either one.

[ScottoKong]

Hi Guys

Is there anything I can be checking/measuring on my cab to try and help you guys?

Thankfully I never experienced the wobbles you guys are talking about.

Scott

[brad808]

Haven't had time to do any more testing, but had another idea:

I wonder if the gearing between the motor and the wheel affect centering.
I don't think it would be this complicated, but what if the logitech pcb sends a signal expecting to turn the wheel X amount, but the wheel turns farther because our motor & wheel aren't geared the same as the original.  
It would need a smaller gear on the motor or larger gear on the wheel to slow it down, but there isn't room for a huge change on either one.

Just to build on that thought, if that is the case and the logitech does read how far the wheel travels vs how much signal is sent then an issue could lie with the little "self test" thing the wheel does when it first boots up. The stock wheel will turn all the way to the right and left where the hacked wheel will simply jolt to the right/left, almost like a twitch. I'm not sure if it's simply and "output" type test just to show you it's working or if it is in fact setting some sort of boundary. My guess is it's just an output test, but who knows it could be something as simple as that throwing it off. Might be able to test it by holding the wheel at different positions during it's boot up phase and see if it has an affect on the force feedback.

Hi Guys

Is there anything I can be checking/measuring on my cab to try and help you guys?

Thankfully I never experienced the wobbles you guys are talking about.

Scott

What sort of settings are you using as far as dip switches on the amc, logitech profiler settings etc on your wheel? Have you done any voltage measurements?

[BadMouth]

Hi Guys

Is there anything I can be checking/measuring on my cab to try and help you guys?

Thankfully I never experienced the wobbles you guys are talking about.

Scott

You had a higher voltage motor (90v).  Not sure if that means it would turn slightly slower with 24v.
The specs are clearly visible on a pic in your thread.  Might be interesting to compare the specs.

You also had those big ceramic resistors that were wired inline with the motor that nobody had seen on a machine before!
Can you make out out any markings or a value stamped onto them?

[ScottoKong]

Howdy

I hope to get some time this weekend to help with the trouble shooting.

I hacked a Logitech Driving Force - the same wheel at Marks Basement  http://home.comcast.net/~mshaker/marks_arcade_006.htm
You guys use a different wheel?

As for the 90v motor - I asked about it when I first got my cabinet.
I was led to believe that all the happ ones were 90v???  Just not run that high??

I've got the 10 dip servo (30A something from memory)
1 3 and 5 dips on, on the servo.

I cant make out the markings on the ceramic resistors - they werent listed in the schematics that came with the Cruisin USA cab either.
I'll try yo test with them out of the loop over the weekend - at least I'll measure either side.

Keep it real 

[mbasile35]

Hey everyone!

Seems like its been ages since I've made any progress on my cab. since my last update, I've messed around with the wheel hack a little more, with no luck. Everytime I'm unsuccessful, I stop trying and that's the biggest thing keeping me from moving forward on this build. That being said, I'm ready to tackle the hack so i can move along..so, have any of you guys got any more knowledge about the settings of the servo amps? That's one huge gray area that could be a cause of my issue. Another thing i think could be my problem is the wiring to the pot. If you remember, a while back i messed up one of the pads on the PCB where the header that connected to the wheel pot was soldered in. I then had to repair the board by soldering into a via that was connected to the same trace as the ruined pad. Ever  since then, the wheel pot intput always "flickered" on screen, like in the diagnostics screen that shows all of the digital and pot inputs, the wheel value was never steady. I think this could be causing the constant rumble of my motor. The video i posted a few posts back still shows the current state of everything. Any ideas??

[BadMouth]

Ever  since then, the wheel pot intput always "flickered" on screen, like in the diagnostics screen that shows all of the digital and pot inputs, the wheel value was never steady. I think this could be causing the constant rumble of my motor.

That would definitely be a problem, as the wheel would think it was off center and try to correct it every time it "flickered".
It probably needs to be fixed before moving on.

There is still the issue everyone else has had of some wobble that can be eliminated by turning centering feedback way down, but I still don't like that solution.  I have 2 ideas to test when I get back into working with my new dash (I'm busy building a joystick cab at the moment).

The first theory is that the wobble is caused by a lack of friction in the Happ wheel.  The plastic logitech wheel turns kinda hard when unplugged.
The Happ wheel has bearings and moves freely.  I'd test this by hooking the servo amp up to the feedback motor in an original logitech wheel to see if it wobbles.  Then I'd try to introduce some kind of friction to the happ wheel.  The only thing I've come up with so far is to install nylon washers between the pulley on the steering shaft and the main bracket, or between the steering wheel and the main bracket.  Then tighten the steering shaft until is has some resistance when you turn it.  I'm not sure how long the nylon washers would last.

The other theory is that the gearing in the happ feedback system makes the wheel move farther than expected (past center).
Not sure how I'd go about finding different gears.  

You might want to see if any more progress has made on the interface mentioned in this post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119633.msg1268910#msg1268910
The guy sounded like he was going to sell them eventually.
It still uses the servo amp you already have.

[brad808]

Ever  since then, the wheel pot intput always "flickered" on screen, like in the diagnostics screen that shows all of the digital and pot inputs, the wheel value was never steady. I think this could be causing the constant rumble of my motor.

That would definitely be a problem, as the wheel would think it was off center and try to correct it every time it "flickered".
It probably needs to be fixed before moving on.

There is still the issue everyone else has had of some wobble that can be eliminated by turning centering feedback way down, but I still don't like that solution.  I have 2 ideas to test when I get back into working with my new dash (I'm busy building a joystick cab at the moment).

The first theory is that the wobble is caused by a lack of friction in the Happ wheel.  The plastic logitech wheel turns kinda hard when unplugged.
The Happ wheel has bearings and moves freely.  I'd test this by hooking the servo amp up to the feedback motor in an original logitech wheel to see if it wobbles.  Then I'd try to introduce some kind of friction to the happ wheel.  The only thing I've come up with so far is to install nylon washers between the pulley on the steering shaft and the main bracket, or between the steering wheel and the main bracket.  Then tighten the steering shaft until is has some resistance when you turn it.  I'm not sure how long the nylon washers would last.

The other theory is that the gearing in the happ feedback system makes the wheel move farther than expected (past center).
Not sure how I'd go about finding different gears.  

You might want to see if any more progress has made on the interface mentioned in this post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119633.msg1268910#msg1268910
The guy sounded like he was going to sell them eventually.
It still uses the servo amp you already have.

Just thinking about your two ideas. I'm not using the original happ gears on my wheel, I'm using the sega gears with the happ motor. I'm not sure how to properly compare gears (just count the teeth on big gear and small gear?) But if someone wants to do the happ gears I can do the sega gears and we can compare.

As for the first theory wouldn't adding more resistance just so you could add more force be counterintuitive? Wouldn't all the new force just be nulled by the added resistance? It's very possible that the resistance is the problem which is why it works when the centering feedback force is turned down. I'm not sure how yours felt when you did that but mine still feels very strong to the point that i turned it down further in most games.


Edit: on second thought if resistance is the final culprit adding resistance may not be such a bad thing. Not so much for PC but for ps2/3 where you have very limited control over force feedback. Getting the wheel back closer to the stock resistance could make a lot of sense then. As of right now i have to kill the power to the logitech board to play ps2 games which means no ffb .
Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

Just thinking about your two ideas. I'm not using the original happ gears on my wheel, I'm using the sega gears with the happ motor. I'm not sure how to properly compare gears (just count the teeth on big gear and small gear?) But if someone wants to do the happ gears I can do the sega gears and we can compare.

As for the first theory wouldn't adding more resistance just so you could add more force be counterintuitive? Wouldn't all the new force just be nulled by the added resistance? It's very possible that the resistance is the problem which is why it works when the centering feedback force is turned down. I'm not sure how yours felt when you did that but mine still feels very strong to the point that i turned it down further in most games.

I don't think my wobble was any worse than yours when I was using the MOMO optical hack.  It was able to be tamed fairly easily.
In that setup, the Happ wheel was restricted to the same amount of travel as the original MOMO so the onscreen stops matched up perfectly with the real life ones.

It's a little worse with the driving force ex hack, but can still be tweaked away.  One thing with the driving force EX is that it's limited to a little less than 270 degrees.
I'm wondering if the happ wheel were limited to the same amount if it would behave better.    I remember skimming over some threads about using a different pot to make up for it, but didn't dig too deep into it at the time.

On the resistance thing, I'm not sure.  It's more about stopping the momentum after the motor is off.  I'm not sure that I have my head wrapped around it, but wanted to to go ahead and test it to see what happens.  I probably won't get to this anytime soon unless I take a half day off work to do it.

[mbasile35]

Hey again everyone


Cruising around the internet got my excited to do more work on my cab some more. I saw that  the next release of supermodel 3 is going to support widescreen which is awesome, I saw that there is some preliminary work being done on Hikaru emulation which is exciting because I love Sega's NASCAR and can't wait to play that, and finally I've seen video of people who got Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 running full speed in (i think a modified version of) Dolphin. These were three big things i was hoping for, and to find them all at once was pretty cool. Needless to say, I got the itch to get some work done.

I mentioned before that i wanted to do something for the dashboard because it's just kinda boring looking. Originally i was going to use bondo and try to sculpt some lines into it to resemble a car hood or something like that. I tried that and it's going to take way too muhch bondo to get it right. So what i'm going to do instead is build a fiberglass "cover" (i guess) for the dash.  Similiar to the picture below but way less intricate. I've done a little repair with fiberglass sheets and resin, but not building something new so it should be interesting. My plan is to build the cover around the dash in foam and then use that to make the fiberglass cover



As far as the FFB issues i was having...I'm scrapping the whole thing. Too much of a hassle i think with  the lifted pad so I'm just going to hook the controls up to an opti-pac for now, and wait on the interface that badmouth mentioned above (that is if i finish this thing before the guy finishes his interface lol) that being said, I have everything except the plastic housing for the sterring wheel. It was a driving force EX, if any of you need the boards, cables or whatever i'd be happy to send them your way. The main pcb just has a lifted pad on the head where the wheel pot pluggged onto.


Anyways thats about it. For now I'm going to start the fiberglass piece and try to get a few more games working


Mike

[BadMouth]

Sometimes I wish I'd just made my own dash instead of trying to squeeze what I want into a model 2 dash.

look up some fiberglass speaker enclosure building videos on youtube.
Stretching fleece over a framework is probably going to be the quickest method to get the shape you want.

For the recessed parts of the dash, cut a plate with the shape you want to recess out of some 1/4" material.
Put it on the front side of the fleece, push it inward, and screw it to some kind of bracket behind the fleece.
The more of these tricks you use, the less bondo you'll need.

[mbasile35]

Sometimes I wish I'd just made my own dash instead of trying to squeeze what I want into a model 2 dash.

look up some fiberglass speaker enclosure building videos on youtube.
Stretching fleece over a framework is probably going to be the quickest method to get the shape you want.

For the recessed parts of the dash, cut a plate with the shape you want to recess out of some 1/4" material.
Put it on the front side of the fleece, push it inward, and screw it to some kind of bracket behind the fleece.
The more of these tricks you use, the less bondo you'll need.

Thanks for the tips bad mouth. I've got a pretty busy weekend ahead of me but I'm hoping to pick up some foam this week to start making some progress. It's been too long lol


Mike

[gbeef]

A fibreglass, CP sounds awesome you should start a WIP thread. Im with BM, i wish i did a custom sometimes. In the end i just used a G27 wheel also. I didn have the patients to get a real wheel working if you need Parts fire me a PM i be parting out my servo and motors and wheel.

[mbasile35]

I'm having some issues getting this started as it occured to me that i can't just switch up my control layout if i don't like what i come up with in fiberglass as easy as a simple wood panel. So I'm looking for some feed back on what you guys think about my layout and if i'm missing anything.



The buttons are all happ low profile illuminated pushbuttons. On the left theres 4 view buttons, and a start and exit. The left side is where i want to put a a "weapon button" for the mario kart games to shoot your item. My problem is with a control you can pull the analog stick back and fire the weapon to shoot it backwards (most go forward by default) So my first thought was the put a button in the sterring wheel. The mario Kart arcade games have this. There's also some games with a 2 button steering wheel which would work, but i can't seem to find a used one. And on top of both of these i was hoping to use the newr  style happ wheel with the rubber coating. Do you guys think modding the wheel to put a button in there is possible? Anyways if i don't do a button in the wheel, then i want to put two buttons on the dash. The triangle button shown would be forward weapon and then another one would be backwards weapon.

So what do you guys think?

EDIT

I think the right side is really boring, even with 2 buttons on it. Is there anythign else i should add? My shifter is gonna be on the seat base

[mbasile35]

I've got a tiny little update and I've made minuscule progress, but that's okay because its more than i've done in quite some time.


I'm still trying to finalize a design for my fiberglass dash...not so much the dash itself but the button layout. I was almost there, I ordered push buttons and everything, then i got an email last night saying that they don't make the small round low profile IPB's anymore...should have know something was fishy when the online store said they had them in white and the Happ website doesn't have white. So now I'm waiting for a reply and hopefully i can swap out small square low profile IPB's for the round ones.



This is a rough idea of what the dash is going to look like. There's no buttons on the left and the right side raised section is not going to be rounded like that, but the top is what iwas really trying to show. I'm still a little bit lost on what to do for the sides but i figure i'll start building up the front and top and then take it from there.



This one is model of the "plug" which is the form that the fiber glass is built around, with the esception that i put in the buttons because i was doing this when i got the email i mentioned and i wanted to see how the square ones looked on there.

Anyways what's holding me up now is access to a able saw. To make the plug for the top fiberglass section i need to make long straght cuts on an angle which is something i don't think i can do without a table saw. I thought about using a 45 degree chamfer bit to make the angles, and that's looking more and more like the route i'm going to go.  The other hurdle is time. I just picked up a  ton of OT at work and have been going to school 3 nights a week for the past few weeks . This weekend i hope to start the front panel plug because i can do most of that without a table saw.

[mbasile35]

 Made some actual progress today. Its now been about a year since i started this thing..i wish i had more time.


Anyways, I ended up buying a table saw so i could just do the cuts myself. I figured it'll help out with this and any other future cabs i build, plus who doesn't like buying a new power tool? I table saw i bought is the cheapest one at home depot, the Ryobi RTS10. It got really good review for the most part and the price was attractive so i figured i'd go for it. After about 2 hours of use, i can say i don't have any complaints yet...and i still have all 10 fingers.



So what i cut today was the pieces of wood that are going to be used for the top of the dash board. I'm really happy with the way it came out considering this was my first time operating a table saw. I when i bought the saw i also picked up a 6" x 1" x 6' board and to my surprise i was able to cut everything i needed for the beveled cuts.






As far as the rest of the CP goes, I'm still trying to work out the buttons with the vendor i mentioned above. I also got a template laser cut to make the button panels. I figured i could trace them with 3/4 mdf and stack them up till i get the desired height. The laser cut part shipped friday so hopefully by next weekend i have something to show for that. I'm also thinking of using the laser cutter again to get the raised sections that the buttons actually sit on made (around the button, not the whole left/ right pieces) so i can get more intricate than i'd be able to by hand. I still have to wait to see if i get my buttons then i can figure that out.


Mike

[mbasile35]

Got the template in today, cut a piece from mdf with the jig saw really quick, clamped down the piece, clamped down the template, aaaaaaaaand......


I broke the acrylic template within a minute of routing.  I lifted up the router carelessly and ended up hitting the template with the bit, shattering a sqaure corner..not so bad, i still had had the intricate parts in tact and i could use something else to trace the missing corner. So i went along and routed the three straight edges (minus the one corner) and then when i got to the detailed part i did the same stupid thing. Now the template was a goner. Then i unclampled the template and threw it at my garage floor and now its really a goner. Oh well, but now i'm stuck with either buying a new template, or making my own. I'm going to look at the laser cutter's site and see if they can cut wood.

So no progress as far as the front of the dash goes, but i did start mounting the pieces i cut this weekend to 1/4 inch mdf. I just need to take some measurements and make some mounting holes and then i'll be ready to fiberglass the top at least. I also think I've got the buttons figured out. Apparently happ doesn't sell many of the low profile buttons so they're discontinued and i can't get either the small round or small sqaure  ones in white. So i settled for rectangles that i'll mount vertically.

That's about it for now.


Mike

[mbasile35]

Been busy with school and work to do much of anything to the cab, but i'm gearing up to make some good progress this weekend. I didn't have luck trying to map two separate buttons in dolphin to fire weapons forward and back, so i'm probably going to dump that idea and use a single item button on the right side of the panel. This is going to leave a bunch of panel space open.  What i'm wondering is what do you guys suggest i should do with that space? I've got 4 view buttons, start and exit on the left side and that's full. The right side is the single item button. Am i missing any necessary buttons? All i can think of is coin but i'm planning on setting everything up for free play and probably putting a button on the coin return.

My other idea is just mounting the shifter there. I can probably think of way more games that mount the shifter on the dash than on the seat base so i'm not entirely sure why  wanted to do it this way to begin with. What do you guys who play games with the manual trans prefer?  Do you guys have any other ideas on what to use the left side panel for? Maybe simple speedometer decals?

Mike