pc's in the cab?

[davellaman]

I noticed a lot if not all of you are using mame, which from as far as I understand you need a pc to run, so most of you have an actual pc in your cab.  So here is my question...

Is it more expensive to have a pc in your cab then to have a dedicated game running and if anyone can give me any information about dedicated games I would greatly appreciate.

Also, one last question, for those with pc's in your cab.  If you were to put your cabs in a pizza place or somewhere to make money, would you be able to make it so the player cannot exit out of the current game.  (i.e you have mario bros playing and you dont want them to be able to exit that game to basically the desktop.)

Because If I go with the pc in the cab I dont think I want users to actually know theres a pc in there, so I dont ever want them to see the desktop.


Just wondering how this worked....


Thanks,

-Mark

(sorry for rambling)

[jakejake28]

I noticed a lot if not all of you are using mame, which from as far as I understand you need a pc to run, so most of you have an actual pc in your cab.  So here is my question...

Is it more expensive to have a pc in your cab then to have a dedicated game running and if anyone can give me any information about dedicated games I would greatly appreciate.

Also, one last question, for those with pc's in your cab.  If you were to put your cabs in a pizza place or somewhere to make money, would you be able to make it so the player cannot exit out of the current game.  (i.e you have mario bros playing and you dont want them to be able to exit that game to basically the desktop.)

Because If I go with the pc in the cab I dont think I want users to actually know theres a pc in there, so I dont ever want them to see the desktop.


Just wondering how this worked....


Thanks,

-Mark

(sorry for rambling)

ok, my suggestion for you is to read the software section of the arcadecontrols.com site... it has info on things called Front Ends, basically a GUI for different emus.

[Apollo]

I would STRONGLY suggest not trying to make money off MAME.
Nuff said.

[SirPoonga]

1) it is illegal to make money off of mame.
2) dedicated boards usually use a standard called JAMMA, read up on that.

[Cisco Kid]

Q: Is it more expensive to have a pc in your cab then to have a dedicated game running? (conversion cabinet meant for PCB swapping)

A: Yes ... dedicated is cheaper.  You don't have near the initial investment that you do with a MAME machine (encoders, PC Hardware, etc).  Even when it comes to buying and swapping boards these days (eBay) ... its still cheaper.  Tired of a game sell the ol' board and buy a new one.  You'll make your money back much faster with a dedicated machine than you will with MAME.

Q: If you were to put your cabs in a pizza place or somewhere to make money, would you be able to make it so the player cannot exit out of the current game?

A: Yes

As to my first answer ... I mean older games ... I'm not talking about games that still cost in the $1000s ... you'd have your work cut out for you to make your money back in that respect.

Thats just my two cents and I hope I answered your questions.

As for the legal ramifications mentioned ... not trying to be a smart --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- ... but who's going to know its not the real PCB unless they see you exit out of the game which you plan to disable if you go that route and then are the ROM police going to come an arrest you?

I know the above post were to not get the forum into any legal trouble .... but come on ...  everyone here is probably using MAME illegally.  It clearly states you must own the original ROMs or PCBs and then some manufacturers like Capcom still don't permit it.  Now who here owns the original ROMs or PCBs for the games they play on a daily basis?  

Some games are just flat impossible to get a hold of anymore.  If the manufacturers were that uptight about MAME ... they would just supena the records of websites that are supplying MAME ROMs and start filing civil lawsuits against its members like the RIAA is doing.  

They haven't stooped that low yet so I don't think anyone has anything to worry about    So if you want to use MAME in a pizza place I say go for ... make all the money you can (you have a better chance of winning the freakin' lotto than having a video game manufacturer bring legal action against you ... lol )  

[SirPoonga]

It clearly states you must own the original ROMs or PCBs and then some manufacturers like Capcom still don't permit it.  Now who here owns the original ROMs or PCBs for the games they play on a daily basis?  

Easy, there is a thread somewhere on the board saint started.  There are alot of ways to get roms legally.  You can get hundreds of them legally from software out there.

Oh, and Capcom is a bad example.  Namco is a better example.  Capcom has said in a newsletter they aren't worried about games older than 3 years old.  They aren't making money off them.  Though they have the right to enforce the copywrite if needed but they aren't going to actively enforce it.  (HC will have to correct me if I am wrong on this, he got the newletter).  If someone makes money off of it they will probably be ticked.  But you can legally purchase the majority of the Capcom games anyway.

Some games are just flat impossible to get a hold of anymore.  If the manufacturers were that uptight about MAME ... they would just supena the records of websites that are supplying MAME ROMs and start filing civil lawsuits against its members like the RIAA is doing.  

Been there, done that.  Some sites go up and down on a regular basis just because of that.  

[paigeoliver]

Are dedicated machines cheaper?

The answer is sometimes.

Most 84-93 conversion games are much cheaper to buy original that they are to emulate via Mame. Most of those titles can be had for $100 - $200 (sometimes less). A bit more for cabinets with 25" screens.

As far as other games? It all depends. Dedicated vector games cost more than an equivalent Mame unit. As do Williams games, the Pac-Man series, Galaga, Crazy Climber, anything with a laserdisc (Daphne), Donkey Kong or Dk Jr, Tron, Discs of Tron, Zoo Keeper, those Moppet games, and a lot of other 81 to 83 titles.

When I say "equivalent" I mean correct controls and 19" screen. I know you can buy a decent Galaga or Pac-Man for $800, and it is certainly possible to spend far more than that on a Mame cabinet. But, you can certainly make a Mame Galaga or Pac-Man for far less than $800 (my Artic Mini has less than $150 in it).

Heck, given a converted Galaga cabinet, you could buy all new repro art, and new controls, and use a used 19" VGA monitor, and $20 old computer and still come out way cheaper than what it would cost to purchase a decent Galaga.

My Battlezone cabinet is getting a computer, gamepad hack, and SVGA kiosk monitor simply because that is about $300 cheaper than what it would cost me to get a good Battlezone boardset and monitor.

[SirPoonga]

true, a dedicated cabinet can be very expensive depending on the game and quality.  A 4 slot neogeo system with metal slugs would go for a pretty penny.

[hooded_paladin]

If you were to put your cabs in a pizza place or somewhere to make money

If that question is more than hypothetical, watch out.  It's illegal to make money with MAME and any knowledgeable MAMEr who finds it should report you.

*ENJOY!*

[Tailgunner]

If you're interested in placing a multigame arcade machine somewhere for profit, you might concider going with an Ultracade cabinet. It's similar to the MAME cabs built by the members here, but it's licensed for commercial use. They seem a bit pricy up front, but in a good location it'll pay for itself in short order.

http://www.ultracade.com/

[SirPoonga]

Yes, ultracade is great for commercial use.

Also, as an option if you can pick up some cheap PCBs you could use multijamma and a jamma cabinet.

[paigeoliver]

If you were to put your cabs in a pizza place or somewhere to make money

If that question is more than hypothetical, watch out.  It's illegal to make money with MAME and any knowledgeable MAMEr who finds it should report you.

*ENJOY!*

Bootleg Ms. Pac-Man boardsets and "Japan only" boardsets are also illegal to operate as well, but I encounter both of them on location all the time. (My local Tilt has a half dozen "Japan only" machines, and I went to a movie theatre a few months ago with "Japan Only" Namco Classics volume 1 and DDR machines.

But really, if you are looking to make money off games, don't bother. The two least played games at my local Dave & Buster's seem to be the Ultracade and the Centipede/Millipede/Missile Command combo machine. A Ms. Pac-Man can make a bit of money, but don't expect very much.

If you want to operate a game, then go for a light gun game or a driving game. Nothing with joysticks turns a profit anymore.

If you actually want to make a real profit, then forget games altogether and invest in a few candy cranes. Those things make a TON of money (50 cents to play, player gets about 4 cents worth of candy).

Or, if you want to try out being an operator "on the cheap", then pick up a single old Jamma game ($100), and a used multi-headed candy machine (you know, a half dozen different 25 cent machines on one stand). The JAMMA game won't ever turn a profit, but it might eventually pay for itself (in like a year).

[Cisco Kid]

I think he meant PCB swapping not actual dedicated cabinets ... then again I could be mistaken    

I would hate to think he meant buy vintage machines ... no way he'll ever make a profit with those ... seeing as there mainly collector items that come with big price tags  

[davellaman]

THanks for thr replies.  I am looking at the Jamma, which seems like a good choice.  JUst a few questions.  

Does user select game or is it pre-selected by me which games should display?

Where exactly does jamma go?  DO I need create my own pc box for it?

Is a pc needed for jamma?  If anyone has any pictures of jamma being used I would greatly appreciate it.

THanks,


Mark

[paigeoliver]

JAMMA has NOTHING to do with a computer whatsoever. JAMMA is just a wiring scheme for original boardsets.

Basically, if you have a JAMMA wired machine, then you can plug (most any) JAMMA compatible boardsets into it.

But that is just for one game at a time. Having multiple ones requires a rather pricy multi-JAMMA kit.

If you want to see JAMMA, then go down to your local arcade, almost everything there will be using JAMMA (basically everything made from 1986 to now is JAMMA).

[Tiger-Heli]

>Is it more expensive to have a pc in your cab then to have a >dedicated game running and if anyone can give me any information >about dedicated games I would greatly appreciate.

I think this thread got somewhat off track, but here goes.  For a single game, it is cheaper to just use a dedicated board and one game.  The PC and MAME route gives you access to 4000 MAME games.  If you want to be able to play more than 20-25 games, then the PC option becomes cheaper.  And if you want more than maybe 10 simultaneously, it's the only way to go anyway.

>Also, one last question,

There were two questions. (making money off MAME and hiding the desktop).

> for those with pc's in your cab.  If you were to put your cabs in a >pizza place or somewhere to make money

Dangerous ground here.  First off, you probably don't have rights to the ROMS used to play the games.  Even if you did, commercial use of MAME violates the MAME license.

In response to Cisco Kid:  There is a distinct difference.  If I am playing MAME without rights to the ROMS I am using, theoretically, the ROM copyright holders could confiscate my PC and maybe sue me for $100's of millions of dollars (lots of luck collecting).  If I am running a pizza parlor and have a MAME machine set up making money, the ROM copyright holders could get an injunction against the MAME developers and a court order to force them to cease and desist work on the project, or at least make distribution of it in the U.S.A illegal.  Personally, I think too much of MAME and the work that the dev's have done to take the risk.

OT hypothetical question(s) for the MAME regulars - If I set the machine up to accept quarters, it is a violation of the MAME license.  Now:

1)  If I set the machine on free play, is it a violation of the MAME license, b/c theoretically I will sell more pizza b/c of people coming in to play the machine, thus I am making additional profit off of MAME.

2)  If I set the machine to accept tokens and give away 10 tokens with any purchase, is this a violation.  (basically same conditions as above).

3)  If I set the machine to accept tokens and sell a slice of pizza for $3.00 or a slice of pizza and 5 tokens for $4.00 . . .  (techically the machine isn't making money, but . . . )

>, would you be able to make it so the player cannot exit out of the >current game.  (i.e you have mario bros playing and you dont want >them to be able to exit that game to basically the desktop.)

Yes, depends if you want a single game or all MAME games.  For a single game, just lock the keyboard in the cab and don't put an escape key on the cabinet.  Then you need a shortcut to MAME in you Startup folder.

For all MAME games, you can do this with EmuLoader (and probably other front-ends).  See www.mameworld.net/emuloader/ and the Party Mode section in the tips n trick documentation file.  You then need a shortcut to EmuLoader in your startup folder.

You might want to run a custom compile so you don't see "Game XXX has known problems - the emulation is not 100% accurate"  or worse "IF YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY ENTITLED TO PLAY GAME XXX PRESS ESC NOW, OTHERWISE PRESS OK TO CONTINUE"

Information on avoiding these is available here: http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/faq.htm#How do I get rid of the blasted "Click Ok to continue?" screens

>Because If I go with the pc in the cab I dont think I want users to >actually know theres a pc in there, so I dont ever want them to see >the desktop.

The problem is if the machine re-boots (or some kid unplugs it b/c he wants to have the high score (bad on a Windows PC)), you will probably briefly see.

TNT2 - 16M, and then

AWARD BIOS 7.60
AMD XP 2600
256,235 Kb RAM

before the ROM initialization screen starts, which is a pretty clear indication that you're not running a dedicated arcade game.

>Just wondering how this worked....

Now you know (well, 1/2 of it anyway)

>(sorry for rambling)

I rambled more than you, but everyone's used to that with me now.  NP.

[paigeoliver]

Actually, plenty of dedicated games these days DO show a PC bios screen when turned on. There are a lot of PC based games out there now. Pump it Up (not sure if this shows Bios, never seen it reboot), Ultracade, and my local arcade has a 3 screen boat sim that not only shows PC bios on bootup, but also seems to crash out to the windows desktop on a regular basis.

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually, plenty of dedicated games these days DO show a PC bios screen when turned on. There are a lot of PC based games out there now. Pump it Up (not sure if this shows Bios, never seen it reboot), Ultracade, and my local arcade has a 3 screen boat sim that not only shows PC bios on bootup, but also seems to crash out to the windows desktop on a regular basis.

Well, you can probably see how long it's been since I was in a real arcade.  Thanks Paige

[Cisco Kid]

Dave ... here's a pic of a JAMMA harness



basically certain wires go to the speakers, monitor, coin door, player controls, power supply, etc. (it list what wires go where (very simple) ... if you buy a Dynamo cabinet ... all this will be wired up for you ... all you need to do is plug in a game and wire up any aux. harness if the game requires it (JAMMA+))

you slide the JAMMA connector onto the PCB like you insert a PCI card into a computer .. its keyed to go on a certain way ... so there's really no chance of you inserting it on the wrong way.

... a Super JAMMA harness from Happs will only set you back about $35 (regular JAMMA harness $25) ... can be gotten for way less on eBay though ... really cheap compared to a computer isn't it  

here's a pic of a WWF Wrestlemania PCB ...


see the gold looking fingers on the board in the pic ... well your JAMMA harness slides onto that part of the board.  If you had a prewired Dynamo cabinet ... you basically slide your JAMMA connector onto the board and turn the machine on and your game will start up and be ready for play.  

In this case though ... the board is a JAMMA+ board which means the game requires the use of 3 or more buttons (in this case 5 buttons).  This means you have to connect the aux harness (that extra cable already attached from the board on J15 header   and wire those up to the extra buttons so the player has access to all the buttons (that cable adds the two extra buttons) ... if you didn't connect the aux. harness ... the player would only be able to access 3 of the 5 buttons ... not much fun that way.)

btw ... that particular game has great graphics, good fun factor, and a excellent quarter muncher ... good board to start with seeing that it will only set you back $30 - $40.  Any of the Mortal Kombat games MK1, MK2, UMK3, NBA JAM, Street Fighter series (CPS2 system ... once setup allows you to easily swap games with little effort) would be great games to extract those quarters from the customers at little cost to you.  The dream setup would be a NEO GEO 6 SLOT SYSTEM ... slap in 6 carts and let the quarters just roll in    (eBay will become your best friend with it comes to buying arcade boards   )


Hope that clears up some of your confusion and I didn't confuse you even more .... it seems complex but its not.  After setting up a few boards you'll be a pro  

[SirPoonga]

... a Super JAMMA harness from Happs will only set you back about $35 (regular JAMMA harness $25) ... can be gotten for way less on eBay though ... really cheap compared to a computer isn't it  

$15 form bob roberts if I remember correctly.