Looking for Input on Control Panel Layout

[Indyplumber]

Well, my cabinet is almost done as far as woodworking is concerned.  Now I just need to complete the control panel top.  I've made a template from cardboard to make it easier on me.
I have played with the buttons and I'm pretty happy with where they are but it's the placement of the joysticks that have me puzzled.  It's a pretty common mini-frank panel with 2 8-ways, a 4-way, a spinner and trackball.  I've gone with 2" center to center spacing for buttons and kept 8-ways 3.75" center to center from buttons. Anyway, here are some layouts I've played with.

I'm concerned with 2 things:

#1 - will anything be in the way of the trackball?

#2 - will it be awkward to use the spinner or 4-way?

Exhibit A:  8-ways toward the center and 4-way/spinner toward edges



Exhibit B:  Left 8-way has moved to the edge.



Exhibit C:  Left handed 8-ways again, but Spinner and 4-way moved toward center.  (i worry about the spinner here)



Exhibit D:  4-way and spinner still center and both 8-ways to edges  (just wonder if right 8-way will be awkward feeling even though this gives a lot of access)



Exhibit E:  Same as D but Trackball moved 1" up toward center.




Feedback and advice is welcome.  And the $50 is what my dad just dropped by for my birthday.  Gonna put it toward a coin door! 

[Nephasth]

I think 2" centers on the buttons is a little too much. Give 1 1/2" centers a try and see if you like that (I used 35mm centers which is a little less than 1 1/2"). I would go with Option C, but I would rotate the 4-way 90 degrees and place the spinner near (but not too close) to the bottom right corner of the 4-way. But in the end, go with what feels best to you.

[mgb]

I would say C.
I definately wouldn't go a route that put the 6 button configurations to the left of the 8-ways like A,D or E.

you want to make sure that you can comfortably reach the spinner without having a joystick in the way.
I assume your concern for the track ball clearance is for Golden Tee.

[Indyplumber]

I think 2" centers on the buttons is a little too much. Give 1 1/2" centers a try and see if you like that (I used 35mm centers which is a little less than 1 1/2")

I was wondering about that too.  I'm gonna try placing them 1.4 to 1.5 inches apart and see how that affects the Joysticks.  Maybe open up the center some more.

you want to make sure that you can comfortably reach the spinner without having a joystick in the way.
I assume your concern for the track ball clearance is for Golden Tee.

Yes, golden tee.  I'm gonna change the button spacing and see if the right Joystick moving to the right helps with the spinner placement.

[Nephasth]

It might not be too bad to move the two buttons near the 4-way to the right and place the spinner between them and the 4-way.

[Indyplumber]

It might not be too bad to move the two buttons near the 4-way to the right and place the spinner between them and the 4-way.

That's a nice idea too!

Here's a few changes, sorry for the blurring one.  I moved buttons closer together (but forgot to move the 6 buttons closer vertically)
Moved the 4-way closer on the last pic.

[Nephasth]

Are you ever going to pocket that $50?    Looks good. I guess the spinner location should be determined on how you play spinner games, either with your right or left hand on the spinner. I don't have a frankenpanel (or even MAME set up with a spinner), but I have an Arkanoid with the spinner in the middle of the CP and a fire button on each side of the spinner. I find myself switching what hand I use to control the spinner quite a bit, but for the most part I control it with my left.

[Useless Eater]

I would make a clear 8 - 10 inch wide runway from the front edge to the screen centered on the trackball, I have a couple buttons to the right front of my trackball and sometimes I snag a fingertip on them playing golden tee, heres some button layouts that might be helpful http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

[Xiaou2]

Remember to think about arm angles, and comfort.

 For example, if your arm has to rest on top of buttons when playing with a certain controller, its gona get annoying.   Also, if you have to reach too far to get to a controller, it will cause stress when playing past a certain length of time.   And finally, a trackball should be clear of joysticks for a certain diameter of space... as a hard fast roll could send your hand into them.  (Buttons are ok, cause your hand will fly over the top of them)

 In this example, you can see that you can almost stack joysticks up on top of each other, and not interfere with comfort or control.  It helps to bring the control lower towards the player, and theres no need to rest your arms over any buttons.

 Click on the picture, to see the hands & arms.

[RandyT]

What Xiaou said.  It looks like you may be doing some reaching for the spinner and 4-way.  I think you can shift the trackball forward a bit, which will let you bring the other controls closer.  So long as you keep them up and to the sides relative to the ball, you should be able to get them at a comfortable distance, without any of the controls or buttons interfering with each other.

[alfonzotan]

Check the actual control panels of the games you're wanting to play with that spinner... those layouts (assuming you want to copy them) could affect whether you want it on the right or left side of your other primary controls.  For example, Tempest was built for right-hand control of the spinner (lots of right-handed people played it with their hands crossed in order to smack the fire button faster), while Tron is a left-hand spinner game.  You might want to take that sort of thing into account, depending of course on whether you're right- or left-handed...

[Xiaou2]

Spinning a dial, and hitting buttons, IMOP... is universal in difficulty with either hand.
(etch a sketch anyone?)

 It would be one thing is we were talking about a faster trigger finger... but simply tapping buttons with a flat hand is a very simple motion.

 A joystick is however different, in that its operation is much more similar to writing, needing a lot more precision.

 And if you are already skilled with buttons on your right hand, then why wouldnt you be just as skilled if not More skilled with your left (joystick hand)

 Maybe its just me, but I dont see any issues with spinners on either side.

[Indyplumber]

Thanks for the advice. Im currently at work. I will try a few configs with the spinner and 4-way closer.

[Indyplumber]

Well I'm home again and back at it.  I've made some adjustments to button spacing and relocated the spinner and 4-way as well as moved the trackball closer to but not quite center.
#1


#2


#3


#4


I think I'm liking the 4th layout.  Maybe tweak the admin-admin / start-coin button spacing in upper corners a bit.

[RandyT]

Wrong direction   Try bringing the TB forward (toward you) and the other controls with it.  Take advantage of the geometry of the panel.  You'll also want to give yourself a place to rest your hand when using the spinner and 4-way.

[lilshawn]

Wrong direction   Try bringing the TB forward (toward you) and the other controls with it.  Take advantage of the geometry of the panel.  You'll also want to give yourself a place to rest your hand when using the spinner and 4-way.

agreed, you have the real estate, use it. just make sure you don't go down too far... you still need room to  mount it.

moving the trackball down will give you more room for follow through when you hit the ball, instead of smashing your hand into the monitor. it will also put some space between the P2 stick and the track ball... you wont find yourself catching your hand on the P2 joystick when you play a game like marble madness.

have you considered putting the spinner in the middle above the trackball? having it on the right is nice but the middle makes it nice to use your left and your right can operate a button on the P2 side for firing etc. i dunno, operating a fire button with  my left hand seems unnatural. and standing off to the side to play with my left is a little odd 

[emb]

I must first state that I really like how many different mock ups you are doing. It really helps you explore your cp design.

Take it from personal experience, bashing your fingers into a joystick or monitor hurts really bad when playing bowling or golden tee. If you feel if trackball is far enough, go for it. Just be careful when you need to make some insane slices in golden tee or are trying to pick up a 7-10 split.

What are the current dimensions of your cardboard control panel templates? How wide is your cabinet?

  Also, is this a cabinet that only right handed people use? If that spinner is too far to the right then it may be difficult to use if one of your buddies is a lefty. Now if your left handed buddies don't play the cab (or many games with a spinner) much then I wouldn't worry about it.

I like to rest the side palm of my hand on the control panel when I play. It would bother me if my hands were resting on buttons.

It also might be a good idea to hone in on the games you plan on playing the most (unless you already have). This may help determine where you can make sacrifices if needed in terms of placement. If your track ball is of the highest priority, then sacrifice a little on the placement of your 4 way and dial...maybe you will have to accept the fact that your hands will be on the buttons using a 4 way.


It is definitely a challenge to get a trackball, dial, 4 way, 2 8 ways on a control panel. I give you props for trying such a difficult task. It is all about weighing sacrifices based on what is the most important to you.


Sorry if I am regurgitating anything anyone stated in any previous post; I'm typing this on my phone.

[Xiaou2]

I dont mind if you dont go with the design I put up... but I do have to ask why would you reverse it?    By doing so, your arms are going to sit uncomfortably on top of the rows of buttons when trying to use something like the spinner... AND, because its so close the the joystick.. you will need to use the right hand..   and then what buttons will you be able to press?!

 Also, in the last example, your right stick is so close to the Trackball that a good spin will nearly break your wrist when you smash into it.

 I think its far better to have a slight offset, and keep the sticks far outside of the balls range.  Probably a 1ft diameter circle minimum.  Try rolling the ball on your lap as fast as you can make it move several times in a row... and note the space it takes to do so.

 Once you have gained an idea, then make a temporary cardboard panel, or better yet, something like Foam board.  Far better to test feel with real mounting.  Ive found out the hard way... that what seems good on paper and mockups... dont always work 100% as planned 'physically'.  (curved button layout seemed to feel ok on flat paper mockup.. but was unplayable on a real wood panel, which ended up getting scrapped as a result)

[Indyplumber]

I dont mind if you dont go with the design I put up... but I do have to ask why would you reverse it?   

LoL.  Don't feel bad!  I haven't gone with any design yet.  This is becoming the most frustrating and confusing part of the project so far.
AND it's the most critical.  I'm still working on it and I'm spending tonight reviewing hundreds of control panel pics and layouts.

Thank you to ALL of you for the tips and advice.  In the event that I do the panel and decide it's
uncomfortable or not playable, then I will redesign it!  I bought extra wood just for the control panel just in case!   

I wonder how these panels have worked out with the 4-way and spinner up to the top of the panel?

My stab at a control panel:

My cab is complete, and here is the CP. Nothing original, just cloning what works!

[Xiaou2]

I wonder how these panels have worked out with the 4-way and spinner up to the top of the panel?

 Easy enough to email them and ask, and hope they are not so prideful as to be dishonest.

[TopJimmyCooks]

+1 on the tried and true knievel-ish panel:


Even better if you have room to offset the spinner out of line with the center of the TB.  I didn't, but I always draw or fade, so its all good.

+1 more:


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91009.msg955292;topicseen#msg955292
He has a link to a cad dwg. with his version of the layout in the thread.