Where can I learn to mold fiberglass for a cabinet build?

[vivificus]

Hello there,

I'm a new guy to these boards and a long time stalker...err lurker. I'm wondering if anyone on here has experience working with some sort of plastic or fiberglass which can be molded into a shape or better yet teach me hold to get a similar effect out of MDF, putty and a lot of sandpaper. I'm researching for materials to give me a better idea of my limitations for my cockpit cabinet I'm thinking of doing. Thanks in advanced to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

[BobA]

Read Ond's thread about his futuristic retro cab to see a master fiberglass worker in action.

Ond's Cab

[Vigo]

There is an 8 part video on youtube on the method of molding fiberglass:

This is the link to part 1 of 8
http://www.youtube.com/user/fibreglast#p/u/25/FCivvXA2FVU

[vivificus]

Yeah, I had a look at some videos on youtube about fibre glassing and they were all pretty informative until a point; where molds are concerned, I'm still not sure how to make a mold for the shapes I desire. Maybe I just need to keep looking around, I'm sure I'll get the information I need! Thanks for the help guys and Ond's cab is all kind's of awesome!

[TopJimmyCooks]

Are you copying a cabinet or making molds from scratch?

if you're copying, making the first reverse form is done on the actual original part.  this is typically called splashing and the splashed mold is single use.  Then, you use the splash to make a positive part and hang/mount that over a metal or wood frame called a buck to keep the shape right.  Then, off of that buck/positive you make your real mold.  It is very thick and heavy fiberglas, with flanges to allow bolting multiple parts together if you have to have seams (so you can get them off your workpiece by taking them apart) and sometimes with metal supports glassed in if it's big enough to not be self supporting.  Tooling up for production in this way is big bucks and you need guns to spray gel coat, and it will go a lot faster if you have a chopper gun so you're not hand laying all the fabric. 

If you're going from scratch, do it like Ond did- or Arcadefan on his hated computer space machine - and make a wood, metal wire, whatever form, stretch fleece, build up with hand layed fiber, then spray your top surfacer/gel, etc. 

USE PROTECTION.  Don't skimp, long sleeves, respirator, etc.  Good luck.  this should give you some intro so you can find further vids, tutorials, etc.

[vivificus]

Thank you so much, I spent the night looking at the Fibre Glast series on youtube of a racing pod they were creating; it looks very time consuming to say the least, I'm wondering if there is another way to get an equally as hard substance? Paper Mache hehe? All jokes aside I will need to see if I have said tools available in my area and have to price them up.

[TopJimmyCooks]

can you give an idea of what shape you're trying to make?  the entire cab? bezel, control panel?  If its the entire cab I would seriously consider doing most out of wood with some composite accents, like the star wars bezel or the control panel area of a pole position upright. 

[Vigo]

Yeah corners can be cut with fiberglassing. I found a video of a guy who makes a speaker baffle mainly from a wood box. He adds a fiberglass front, but primarily uses a polyester cloth instead of fiber glass fabric. Since the polyester does not make a smooth surface, he just fills everything with body filler to smooth things out.

Good example of making a composite accent, though.

[SavannahLion]

Are you copying a cabinet or making molds from scratch?

if you're copying, making the first reverse form is done on the actual original part.  this is typically called splashing and the splashed mold is single use.  Then, you use the splash to make a positive part and hang/mount that over a metal or wood frame called a buck to keep the shape right.  Then, off of that buck/positive you make your real mold.

I've been reading books on this subject and this is the first I've heard of this exact method. Clearly, I've missed something.

Why make a splash at all? Why not go directly into making the mold from the part? Does the process destroy the "original"?

[TopJimmyCooks]

my fiberglas experience comes from an automotive context.  the splash is made because it's taken from a car body panel and sometimes the car isn't even disassembled.  the splash mold is flexible and quick to be able to be made on the car and pulled without damaging the original.  With an arcade type part you might have the same concern if it was something rare or fragile. 

[SavannahLion]

That would explain it and it makes sense. The books I found related to automotive applications focused almost entirely on speaker boxes or fabricating/modifying parts such as the dash or the bumper. It's useful info I guess, but kind of anemic. It's like reading a cookbook on waffles when you're really trying to find recipes for pancakes. Found a great book on boat construction and repair that went into painful detail but never mentioned copying parts in this manner.

I've had to guess at the process based on my scale modeling years which is basically the same technique presented here.

[TopJimmyCooks]

@savannahlion - yeah, that is the same process, just starting at the buck stage for a custom built part.  For some reason I thought the OP was trying to duplicate something existing.  But on re-read it looks like he is starting from scratch.  Interested to see if he pops back up.  Ond has me rarin' to go on some type of fiberglas project now. 

[SavannahLion]

@savannahlion - yeah, that is the same process, just starting at the buck stage for a custom built part.  For some reason I thought the OP was trying to duplicate something existing.  But on re-read it looks like he is starting from scratch.  Interested to see if he pops back up.  Ond has me rarin' to go on some type of fiberglas project now. 

Ditto. I was carving my shape out of Styrofoam until my reference monitor bulb fried. can't move forward until it's fixed.

Thanks for the info, now I've got something to plug into a search engine.

[SavannahLion]

OK I'm still a little hazy on the difference between a splash and a buck. What is the logic of not pulling the splash off, hanging it and strengthening it and using it as a buck? Why the extra step of making a positive copy to make the buck from?

[TopJimmyCooks]

OK I'm still a little hazy on the difference between a splash and a buck.

The splash is a negative and the buck is a positive

What is the logic of not pulling the splash off, hanging it and strengthening it and using it as a buck? Why the extra step of making a positive copy to make the buck from?

This is doable, IF you can get the splash off of the original part.  it won't work for a complex shape with re-entrant surfaces.  it would also be a one shot deal.  You would probably need to keep the splash thin, pull it, then reinforce the backside with more layers of cloth.

I really got off topic into re-usable mold production fiberglas here.  OP is talking about one off parts, which I would hand lay.  But here's my best answer to your question:

1.  Company A wants to build replicas of a rare and collectible aluminum bodied vintage racecar.  They arrange to borrow an original from a friend or investor.
2.  Company A is going to do their bodies in fiberglas.  they could do the 3D scanning thing and sculpt a buck, big $$$, but they know fiberglass in house so they mask up the car, and hand lay a shell of fiberglass on the body parts.  this is the splash which is a negative mold.  They pull it off, measure the crap out the car, clean it up and send it home. 
3.  They build a plug or buck which is a positive mold, basically a replica of the exterior of the car.  they use the splash negatives as one shot molds to make positive body panels for the plug.  The plug has enough internal reinforcement that they can work off of it for the permanent molds and keep the shape and dimensions accurate (not flimsy like the splash may have been)  they use their measurements to get the size and alignment as correct as they can.
4.  Now, from the positive plug, replica of the body shape, they now make very heavy, thick production negative molds with flanges at joint locations so that different mold sections can be bolted together to make the larger parts.  They polish them out and they are ready to lay up actual parts.   

the original item is reproduced accurately and you have the means of production to reproduce parts in glass.  The molds don't last forever, so they keep the buck around to make new molds periodically (unless Company A sucks).  You could substitute star wars cockpit bezel for the car and it would work the same way.

two vendor tutorials on same or similar reproduction process:
http://www.fiberglasswarehouse.com/fiberglass_mold_making.php
http://www.cstsales.com/tutorials/fiberglass_mold.pdf

Again, if you're sculpting your own shape and doing a one off, like Ond, just lay it up on your handmade, sculpted buck and support framework, resin it, fill it, sand it, paint it and Bob's yer uncle. 

[SavannahLion]

oops, I really meant the splash and the mold made from the.buck.

Oh, now I get it. The buck let's you make more than one mold without fussing with the original.

I'm not 100% certain if I want to paint. I'm thinking of opting for the gelcoat. Taps has a clear gelcoat in stock which, in theory, let's me add my own tinting but it's a UV coating which is what I don't want. I'll have to see if they'll let me purchase a test sample to make sure it'll work as expected.

Thanks for the links.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I am out of my depth with gelcoat formulations.  I do know that it's quite hard to get a perfect gel coat finish that can be polished and be a finished surface.  It's really hard to avoid pinholes, voids, rough spots, etc. which is why most gel coat is filled, prepped, and painted.  Also, if you look at random gelcoat finished items (i.e. the shell of an amusement park ride is the only thing that comes right to mind) the glass is very thick, and it doesn't look that great up close - defects are polished over and thats it.  This is why glass boats are so expensive, those guys are gel coat masters and they still blend touch ups and repairs.