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Author Topic: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine  (Read 4298 times)

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zak1234

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100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« on: May 12, 2011, 09:47:58 pm »
I'm helping a friend add 100 point pockets to his model H skeeball machine. Skeeball makes a kit but it costs too much. I have the schematics for the model H but don't have the schematics for the kit or know how they implemented it. Can someone please help me out here?

Kevin Mullins

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 08:16:53 am »
Got any pics of your logic boards ?

The 100 point pocket is typically called the "bonus pocket".
Which would connect to pins 8 & 9 on P9 on the logic boards I'm used to seeing.
This pocket would register 50 points and then add up another 50 points as it rolls through the other five switches down the track.

Been a while since I messed with any Skee-balls.......
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

zak1234

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 12:12:23 am »
Yes, I have a complete pdf of all the schematics that I got from delco. But they're identical to the ones on unclet's site
 
(http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/SkeeBall/SkeeballDeltronicsPics1.html)


RandyT

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 01:41:57 am »

I don't see anything in those schematics that looks like a "bonus" input.  Have you considered going "low-tech" and just adding 5 more switches to the path from the 100 slots?

Sounds like you need a little microcontroller that can sit on the score switch lines, and pull line P10-2 down to ground 5 times on a switch closure.  Maybe that's what the kit includes?  :dunno

mgb

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 07:54:09 pm »
I know on the older skeeballs I have worked on, if you activate a single switch, it is worth ten points. So with that, if the ball goes in the 50 point hole, it hits all 5 switches going down totaling 50 points. The point switches for the 100 point shoots are worth 50 points, and then the ball goes through the others adding up to 100 points.
What if you paralelled you 100 point switches to the other 5 switches so that once the ball hits the 100 point switch, it goes to 50 points and then as the ball goes through the other switches adding up to 100.

RandyT

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 08:08:23 pm »
I know on the older skeeballs I have worked on, if you activate a single switch, it is worth ten points. So with that, if the ball goes in the 50 point hole, it hits all 5 switches going down totaling 50 points. The point switches for the 100 point shoots are worth 50 points, and then the ball goes through the others adding up to 100 points.
What if you paralelled you 100 point switches to the other 5 switches so that once the ball hits the 100 point switch, it goes to 50 points and then as the ball goes through the other switches adding up to 100.

I think that is how it's supposed to work with those machines where the "bonus" (50pts) is present.  But that link above supposedly shows the schematics for the machine in question, and I didn't see anything which looked like a 50 point or "bonus" connection.  But please have a look.  I could have missed it, so I'd be interested to see where it is, if I did.

It would be nice if one of these drive-by skeeball posters stuck around long enough to let us know the outcomes of the suggestions we give.  I'm still wondering what happened on the last one :)

mgb

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 09:05:29 pm »
Oh yeah,
I looked at the schematic and I see what you're saying. My idea wouldn't work because paralelling across the switches would only be 10 points.
I can't find any bonus input either.  :dunno

zak1234

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 09:33:42 pm »
Would simply adding a 5-switch ramp and hooking them up in parallel with the other switches work? Because that was one of the ideas I was thinking of working with, but I could theoretically use a launchpad or adruino to ground p10-2 5 times.

mgb

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 10:10:08 pm »
yeah but all 10 switches would have to hit seperately because everytime a switch hits, it adds 10 points.

Necro

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 10:33:59 pm »
The arduino idea is a pretty cool one.  You could make the game have different variations, bonuses, etc.  Someone making their own skeeball on here did that with some software he wrote - but with an arduino it could be as easy as a single button to cycle through modes then have the backglass display different codes.

I really, REALLY like that idea.

WindDrake

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 11:25:29 pm »
The P10 connector is just a huge switch ladder, everything is in parallel. The board only understands how to increment 10 at a time, hence the score switch ladder on return to ball stackup. The nice thing is, this makes it simple to work with.

The hard way would be adding a new ramp in the machine with 5 more switches to pass by on it's way to the original 5 switches.

The easy and modern way to do it (Though overkill!) would be to have a dumb IC (555, etc) drive those lines low repeatedly (possibly through a FET if you are worried about isolation, sink ability, etc), or you could take a relatively user-friendly Arduino, whatever that TI one is, BASIC Stamp, etc, and have it pulse the line low 10 times whenever one of it's input pins is driven low (by your new 100pt Switch). Again, probably through a FET for safety.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 11:27:19 pm by WindDrake »

SavannahLion

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 10:34:43 am »
I would try an ATTiny or an Atmega only because I picked up a few blank PCB's on the cheap. I have the programmer so its well within my capabilities to spend money to catch something on fire. But the OP might not want to spend the money for a populated board for an Arduino nor spend the time learning the programming language/syntax.

A 555 is a good choice. They, and the needed components, can be found at Rat Shack or equivalent making assembling the parts easy, albeit a little pricey. There are a billion ways to build such a circuit. Now that I think about it.... wouldn't a simple RC circuit do the job? Build  a set of four RC circuits each with a variable resistor to adjust timings?

WindDrake

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 11:34:23 am »
You could use an RC circuit network, but you'd still have to have it driving a Transistor that's Emitter-Ground, as the line's active low. Also, RC Circuits make my head hurt, I don't understand analog quite that well.

Easy way would be using two 555's or a 556 (555x2!), one in Monostable, one in Astable, and set up the timing for 5 pulses to come across in say.. 20ms or so (You'd have to mess with the timing!). Ok, so, not real easy, but cheap! Probably just a couple of bucks. You'd also have the issue if you hit the thing back to back, if the ramp is too sharp, you run the risk of restarting the Monostable 555 in the middle of it's operation, so you'd end up with some number less then 5 pulses, possibly.

Personally? I'd spend the $25 and use an Arduino or clone (Pro Mini, 5v), and set that one up to drive a Transistor for your pulses. That way, you can have the Arduino buffer it's pulse count, so that even if you stack balls back to back, it'll just keep pulsing till it's emptied it's buffer.




SavannahLion

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Re: 100 point pockets on a model H skeeball machine
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 01:14:53 am »
WindDrake, you're forgetting to account for the abilities of the OP. (S)He may not have the ability, tools or even the desire to deal with the software side of any programming language, regardless of the reason. It may sound bizarre to you or me, but there are people out there that think a word is what goes into a sentence.

The ideal answer is to figure out what the OP is capable of and go from there. I would also opt for a microcrontroller (though I would rather go with a Tiny or whatever is the cheapest controller I could source) but that may not be within the capabilities of the OP.

That said, there are discussions and diagrams all over the internet like this that do it sans 555 or a few that can do the trick with modifications using a 555 series IC. Here's one using a 4049.

Also, RC Circuits make my head hurt, I don't understand analog quite that well.

Um.... RC's are kind of a basic building block of a lot of circuits. ??? Like a voltage divider, you kind of have to deal with them eventually. Try reading the schematic of a TTL circuit from 1979. Some people actually think the * is a single bit buffer :laugh2:
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 01:17:12 am by SavannahLion »