Help--I don't like my buttons

[Cynicaster]

After a few weeks of having my MAME cabinet in my basement, I’m really really enjoying it.  However, one thing that is starting to bug me is the buttons.

They are Happ concave buttons that call for a 1 1/8” hole, and the microswitch is attached to them in the up/down direction. 

They work fine, but they’re waaaay stiffer than I’d like.  On shooters and games that require rapid button pressing, it gets really fatiguing, to the point of really detracting from the enjoyment factor.  Not only that, but they make this kind of ugly crunchy sound when I press them.  Not to be confused with the “click” of the switch—I’m fine with that—what I’m talking about sounds more like it has to do with the spring inside the button housing.

I also installed 1- and 2-player start buttons that have the little decals on them.  Those buttons appear to use the same style of microswitch, but the switch mounts sideways to the button.  By comparison, these buttons feel and sound fantastic and are just about what I would consider ideal for my fire buttons.

Another comparison I was able to make was with my brother’s X-Arcade stick.  I’m not crazy about that thing as a product in general (because I prefer custom work), but I must say, I love the feel of the buttons on that thing compared to mine.  I’ve never seen the inside of the X-Arcade stick so I don’t know what the buttons look like on the underside.

So, I guess my questions are:

-   does what I’m describing sound typical for Happ buttons, or did I just get a bunk lot?
-   Is the fact that the sideways-mounted-switch player start buttons feel much better (i.e. easier to press) simply a coincidence, or would this be considered “typical” of that button design?
-   Can anybody recommend me an alternative product (note: must be white, concave, and designed for 1 1/8” hole; other than that, don’t care)?  I’m seriously mulling the idea of buying all new buttons.

Thanks guys

[Nephasth]

You have 2 different styles, vertical buttons and horizontal buttons. I would recommend having all horizontal buttons (like your player start buttons) with 20 gram microswitches (since you like light actuation pressure). You can get these style buttons from pretty much any vendor.

[elkameleon]

Looks like you got the happ ultimate buttons http://happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/539200xx.htm. What you want are the happ competition buttons, they have the horizontal microswitch you are talking about. http://happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5896xxl.htm

[Nephasth]

The competition buttons are convex, not concave.

[Cynicaster]

You have 2 different styles, vertical buttons and horizontal buttons. I would recommend having all horizontal buttons (like your player start buttons) with 20 gram microswitches (since you like light actuation pressure). You can get these style buttons from pretty much any vendor.

So, you're pretty much saying that it's not a coincidence--what I'm perceiving as a better feel from my player start buttons in comparison to my fire buttons is directly attributable to the horizontal design vs. vertical design? 

Probably a redundant question, it's just that it would be a major bummer if I went and paid to have all new buttons shipped to my house and they were no better.

Thanks 

[Smeghead]

Buy some used ones
Replace the springs inside
?

[Nephasth]

From what I've read, vertical buttons have a tendency of "binding", which sounds like what yours are doing with the "crunching" sound. Before you go out and buy buttons, take yours apart. They may just need a cleaning. And if that's the case and a cleaning takes care of the "crunching", you can replace your microswitches with lighter actuation pressure microswitches if you still think they are too stiff.

[elkameleon]

The competition buttons are convex, not concave.

Whoops, though it said convex... convex are better anyways

[yotsuya]

If you're looking for new buttons, I would strongly recommend the GroovyGameGear ClassX with True-Leaf Pro switches. I bought 4 and will probably never buy another type.

[armi0024]

Horizontals and verticals definitely have a different feel.  Just about every distributor has a variety of these buttons.
We have the Chinese no named brand(which I would honestly put up against current Happs) and Yennox short barrels for around 1.10-1.25 per button.  We also sell Happ Blacks with 20 gram micros, 12 for 12.  Or you can go for broken and upgrade to the IL pushbutton(original Happ supplier, and one of the few), there are both convex and concave available.  I have also been told that finally, after 5 months, we will have leaf switches available next week!

You can get pushbuttons from just about everyone though, Ultimarc, Lizard Lick, Groovy Game Gear, Divemaster, etc etc.  Lots of options!

[scofthe7seas]

It might help to assign two buttons to the fire button on some shooters. It's a little relief on the one joint. But for track and field type games, don't be a wuss! hehe. If you don't break a sweat on those, you're not trying hard enough!

[Cynicaster]

It might help to assign two buttons to the fire button on some shooters. It's a little relief on the one joint. But for track and field type games, don't be a wuss! hehe. If you don't break a sweat on those, you're not trying hard enough!

Haha, nobody wants to look like a wuss.  But, honestly, I feel like I'm developing tendonitis in my forearms from these damn things. 

[scofthe7seas]

For sure for shooters, it's rough on the hands. After a while of playing my hand gets pretty tired too. Strange how I don't recall this ever happening in my youth  and I don't believe every game I ever played had top class buttons.

[RandyT]

-   does what I’m describing sound typical for Happ buttons, or did I just get a bunk lot?
-   Is the fact that the sideways-mounted-switch player start buttons feel much better (i.e. easier to press) simply a coincidence, or would this be considered “typical” of that button design?

As already stated here, typical for that style of button.  But if the switches are E-Switches, the issue is exacerbated by the 50gram switch.  In my opinion, that design was really poorly thought out.  Those little buttons on top of microswitches are designed to be pressed from directly above.  Any actuator provided by the manufacturer of any switch of that type, is designed to interact with the little plunger in exactly that way.  The buttons you have are pushing sideways as well, and that creates friction and wear.  

The pushbuttons you ended up with are really counter-intuitive in how they are perceived by the new builder.  At first blush, it looks like a great way to manage under panel space, as they don't have nearly the footprint of the other buttons.  But the price you pay in performance for that space savings is too dear, and the new builder is usually the unfortunate one who get's "stuck" by them.  The very same thing happened to me 10 years ago with my first panel, so I have felt your pain.

-   Can anybody recommend me an alternative product (note: must be white, concave, and designed for 1 1/8” hole; other than that, don’t care)?  I’m seriously mulling the idea of buying all new buttons.

Try the CLASSX™ buttons, with the leaf switches.  My opinion on the subject is that once you have, it will be difficult to accept less.  But if you find that you like the clickiness of the switches on the X-Arcade panel, you can remove the switches from your current buttons, and swap them with the True-Leaf Pro switches, as the CLASSX buttons are also compatible with standard micros.  Somehow, and as Yotsuya seems to agree, I don't think you will want to... I wouldn't.  

[hypernova]

Once you go leaf, you'll never go cherry. 

[scofthe7seas]

Try the CLASSX™ buttons, with the leaf switches.  My opinion on the subject is that once you have, it will be difficult to accept less. to... I wouldn't. 

No bias here though, right?

[RandyT]

No bias here though, right?

Can't have an opinion without some bias.  But I did feel strongly enough about it to spend $10,000, and a huge amount of time designing them, in order to make them available to others.

[TopJimmyCooks]

As best I can tell nobody likes or recommends the vertical microswitch PB's.  They don't work well.  As best I can tell they weren't used in original equipment, but i'm no expert on original stuff, just going from the pix i've seen.   If space underneath is the concern,then the Japanese styles are clearly a better and more popular choice. 

Why are they even made or sold?  What is the application where they are the best choice?

[elkameleon]

Try the CLASSX™ buttons, with the leaf switches.  My opinion on the subject is that once you have, it will be difficult to accept less.

These buttons look top quality! I'm kinda wishin' I would of picked these up with the leafs for my current build now! Next time... since there's always a next time with this hobby!

[boardjunkie]

Vertical microswitch buttons always have and always will suck donkey.....

[amendonz]

sanwa obsf 30's, very very light to touch

[Malenko]

maybe Im missing the obvious, but why not swap the start and fire buttons and see how much you like them before buying all new buttons?

[AndyWarne]

sanwa obsf 30's, very very light to touch

Not to be left out... since Sanwa OBSFs are mentioned, our Goldleaf buttons are very similar and have the same light touch.
http://www.ultimarc.com/goldleaf.html

[emphatic]

Did you try removing the spring from the button?

[Cynicaster]

Did you try removing the spring from the button?

Naw, can't be bothered with the hassle.  For the price of 12 buttons, I think I'm just going to cut an order for replacement buttons and be done with it.

I did no research whatsoever on buttons before ordering because I naively assumed that a button is a button.  Of course, in blindly picking one, I pick the worst one.   

[Donkbaca]

get the ultramac ones and let us know what you think!

[DNA Dan]

I was torn between the GGG Classix with leaf switch and Ultimarc "gold leaf" buttons both mentioned in this Thread. I bought both of them to try out and eventually decided upon the ultimarc gold leaf buttons because I did not like the feel of the Classix button itself. It's a great button, and I actually preferred the leaf switch in it over the ultimarc button, but it felt like a smaller button and too concave to me in my hands.

This is just my personal opinion, and I would recommend you buy both to try. These are probably the best NEW buttons you can buy right now. I'd really like to see some of what Randy's done with the classix button switch but on a Happ-shaped button. Probably legal issues here.

[scofthe7seas]

I think you can take the switches out and put them in the other buttons? I could be wrong on that though with those two specific types.

[RandyT]

I actually preferred the leaf switch in it over the ultimarc button, but it felt like a smaller button and too concave to me in my hands.

I just wanted to point out here that the CLASSX™ buttons were designed with classic leaf buttons as a reference.  The CLASSX buttons are a little more concave than a HAPP button, but not as concave as actual arcade classic leaf buttons. The outside bezel is virtually the same diameter as a HAPP button, but the higher, more rounded bezel (also more reminiscent of original arcade pushbuttons) creates a bit of an optical illusion.  The plunger is only 15 thousandths of an inch smaller in diameter, but because there is less slop between the plunger and bezel, making the bezel wider, the plunger only appears smaller than the actual dimensions show is the case.  As another point of reference, the plunger in the CLASSX button is 5 thousandths of an inch larger in diameter than the plungers in the buttons on my original Williams Defender control panel.   In my opinion, the more classic plunger size, coupled with the high, rounded bezel is an attractive and distinctive feature of the CLASSX buttons, but as with anything, it does depend on what one is used to.

I'd really like to see some of what Randy's done with the classix button switch but on a Happ-shaped button. Probably legal issues here.

FWIW, I could have made an exact copy of any button out there for the CLASSX design, but chose not to.  The goal was to be able to offer a high-performance button that looked and felt more like the original arcade buttons than what the industry is currently offering.  If I didn't feel like I was moving the design back toward the designs that started it all, I probably wouldn't have felt it to be worth doing .

[armi0024]

Another option out there are the buttons Ponyboy offers, The Rollie pushbuttons.  They are snap in though and primarily designed for fighter panels.  However, there are some lighting options and other things available.  They are convex, but the sensitivity is winning over over many of the hard core fighters.

Rollie "Asian Style" 30mm Snap-In Pushbuttons TRANSLUCENT


Rollie "Asian Style" 30mm Snap-In Pushbuttons PEARL


Sanwa microswitches can actually be exchanged for these.

[scofthe7seas]

I think I found some of those "pearl" buttons in my Easter basket last month.

[MAME TIME]

just wondering if theres leaf style convex buttons, been looking around and haven't found any. i want to replace my happs in the mk2

[armi0024]

It is my understanding that the leaf brackets are arriving Thursday or Friday, so we will be offering convex leaf buttons within the next week!

[DNA Dan]

If that is what you are looking for, the GGG Classix with true leaf pro switch is what you are looking for. http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=360

[armi0024]

For concave there are many options and even more opinions, but for convex there aren't many solutions.  The one we offer consists of IL buttons here with leaf switch brackets here

One nice advantage of the leaf switch brackets is that you don't need to pull apart your control panel to install them, they install on pretty much any horizontal microswtich bracket.

As a I said I was told they are en route and will arrive later this week!  There is also a retroblast review of them here.

Oh and John's buttons look great with the UIla LEDs in them(and they are convex)

[Pixelhugger]

I think I found some of those "pearl" buttons in my Easter basket last month.