Mame arcade freezing randomly

[hypernova]

My arcade has been completely freezing randomly.  Don't know why.  It has froze at different stages of startup - during the little sidescrolling 3 blue blocks on the XP loading screen, as well as right after that when the loading screen disappears, before XP actually loads up.  It has also frozen while in the FE, during any game, as well as during the windows screensaver.

I've had it on multiple times lately.  I've been trying to update mame, as well as changed FEs.  It was freezing before that, but I just thought the kids were doing something to cause it.  Apparently not.  Some times I've had it on it's been fine for the multiple hours it has been on.  Other times it doesn't, well, even load XP properly.

So my thoughts are:

CPU - top suspect
RAM - somehow I doubt this one
Mobo - very close 2nd
Something else

What's the likely culprit?

[JODY]

Lots of possibilities but I would check the disk first.  Run a chkdsk as the hard drive may be having some issues.  I had one once that would not always boot.  Found the drive was the problem.  Replaced the drive and all was well.

I've also had issues on an old PC where the drive was starting to get some bad sectors.  Backed up the machine, reformatted the drive so the bad sectors were disabled and restored the data.  Has run fine for years since.

Beyond hardware, there is the possibility of viruses or other software issues.  I had one PC that was infected with a root kit.  It started acting real flaky including locking up at time.  After removing the root kit and numerous other viruses, it behaved well.  I don't recall everything I used but can post more details later if needed.

If you aren't that familiar with the above, I would recommend a couple of programs that may find and fix various issues with the OS, disk, etc.  These will not remove most of the advanced root kits and some of the other more complex issues but are a start to help resolve basic problems as well as many viruses and some root kits.  You can get them at download.com.  Try Advanced SystemCare (has some disk, registry, spyware, etc. checks and fixes) and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware (very good free non-resident anti-virus).

After that to check some additional hardware issues try http://www.memtest.org/ to check memory (Mem86+).  I've also used a trial version of BurnInTest from download.com to do an overall system check.

[fallacy]

I have had PC freeze during game play because CPU was overheating. My cause was because so much dust got stuck in the heat sink the fan was not blowing it properly.

[Lilwolf]

I'm guessing heating also.  A good way to check is to take one of those floor square fans (kmart/home depot for 14 bucks) and put it up near the computer and try again.  Sure it will be loud, but the question about air flow will be out.  Also, open the case (keep it open for the test) and make sure the heat sink's aren't clogged with dust for sure like previously mentioned.

[Hoopz]

Reseat the heatsink.  Take it off, clean it off, get all the dirt out and put new thermal compound down.  It's the most likely problem and the cheapest to fix.  It takes just a few minutes to get it done properly.

[jtslade]

Run a sfc check file integrity check ( google it) in xp.

Clean the pc.

Check the system event log to see what happens when it freezes.

Run the memtest program from a boot cd, you can download a great ultimate boot cd online, again google it. If the system runs fine off this cd for hours then you know it's an xp system software problem.

[hypernova]

Considering it's in the open air mounted to the cab inside (outside of the case), I hadn't initially considered overheating.  Don't have a temp monitor on the machine yet, so I suppose it's time for one.  I'll grab AsusProbe and see what we've got.  The random freezing symptom fits, somewhat at least.  Do find it odd that it worked for hours, copying data to my external HDD without it overheating, so I'm not fully convinced that is it.  I'll report back what I get tomorrow...ish.

[Gray_Area]

I think any machine since....the late 90s at least....has temp monitor in the bios.

[scofthe7seas]

Being an IT professional I can tell you, the absolute WORST thing about computers is trying to figure out a problem at your house without the proper equipment. For your list, the CPU is almost certainly not it, that should not be close to #1 culprit. I think I've seen maybe.. 2 actual bad CPUs, and they wouldn't boot.
The memory tester boot CD is a good place to start, but if it were bad memory, I would tend to think blue screens would be more apparent. (or restarting, which is what a lot of computers do when they get a blue screen).
The heating does some like it could be the issue, and as for it not freezing during the copying, it could be because it wasn't taking much to copy files. If you have on-board VGA, things like displaying graphics (screen savers, Mame, boot screen?) could cause the CPU to heat up quicker. As was said, as long as you aren't running an ANCIENT computer, the a temp gauge will be in the bios. The should be a selection in there for HW monitoring. When it freezes, and you reboot, go to the bios and check the temp (if it's overheating, it should be high). How quickly do you restart it after it freezes? What kind of intervals are the freezes? Say, if it freezes, and you restart, does it take a while to freeze again, or is it more inclined to freeze up more quickly. If it freezes up quickly after the first freeze, we have a pretty solid bet that it's a heating issue.
I would run a hard drive test (I'm honestly not sure what software out there can be gotten to do this, I use Easy Recovery Pro) but I would doubt it if there was a problem there.. which is good, because I HATE reinstalling windows. Bleh.
How long has the PC been trucking? Is this a recent thing?

[JODY]

Regarding hard drive checking software, most of the manufacturers have software on their website to do both high level and low level checks.  Some even have DOS bootable versions still available.

I used Seagate's not long ago as I was having issues in Windows Home Server due to sectors going bad on several drives.  The number of sectors going bad was not indicative of a total hard drive failure.  A few going bad over time is normal.  I was able to mark the bad sectors so they would not be used by Windows and the drives have been going without issue since.

[hypernova]

Well, I've actually changed out the CPU and heatsink/fan combo.  It is not that.  My desktop upstairs has the same mobo/cpu combo.  The desktop runs fine, and the arcade is still freezing.  Just checked a few minutes ago.  I ran a CHKDSK during a Windows startup a week or so ago.  As I checked it during its progress, there were no errors.  I didn't catch it at the end (during the last step of a 5 step process) and haven't checked to see if it popped out an error log.  Mainly because it's hard to catch the dang thing before it freezes.  I was going to try to copy over an updated Mame Extras folder, but couldn't even get a few minutes of uptime.  I already had AsusProbe on the thing, and while it wasn't running at startup prior to this, I did enable it, and it doesn't show any heating issues.

For anyone who's curious, it is a P4, socket 478 mobo.  Had a 2.4 ghz, and now has a 3.4 ghz cpu in it.

I'll try a few things in safe mode.  Haven't checked to see if safe mode freezes as well yet.

edit:
Did a memtest, and had two passes with no errors.  So RAM doesn't seem to be the issue.  Running another HDD check via WD's diagnostic software, rather than Windows dskchk.

[D_Harris]

As mentioned it does sound like heating issues, but I've also run into similar because of the cables. Did you swap or re-seat the hard drive cables?

Also, when Windows really starts to act up I've found that backing up/reformatting/re-installing is the best way to go, and doesn't take as much time as the hours it takes to research all the other possible problems for fixes that are usually not efficient.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[hypernova]

As I've said, unless the CPU all of a sudden can't handle 50 degree Celsius temps, or it doesn't register properly, it is not heat.  Besides, I have a heatsink and fan combo on it.  It's not magically making it hotter instead of cooler.

HDD check came up empty.  Gonna try reinstalling XP at some point soon over the existing one...although come to think of it, I don't have much on the install HDD, so a complete format may be in order for it.  Not today, though, as  I can't find my XP cd.

[D_Harris]

As I've said, unless the CPU all of a sudden can't handle 50 degree Celsius temps, or it doesn't register properly, it is not heat.  Besides, I have a heatsink and fan combo on it.  It's not magically making it hotter instead of cooler.

I didn't mention the CPU. The nature of heat is that it can make anything expand. As a result, chips can become flaky when contact is intermittent and the same goes for cables, which is why I asked if you looked into that.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Lilwolf]

btw, it still could be heat (but it looks less likely).  Do you have open air with possibly active cooling in the top of the cab?  Have you run it a few hours when the back is open and air flow isn't the issue?

And if you have a computer upstairs thats exactly the same.  Swap them out... (but keep the drives and video card to start) and see if the problem moves or stays.   Then you will know if its the motherboard, processor, memory or power supply in one shot.  Then you could swap those one by one...

The big thing is to know what changes and break it down.

[hypernova]

Usually, when heat is mentioned, it's implied the CPU isn't getting enough cooling, which is why I'm quick to dismiss it.  Also, it is open air, as I've said, and I've had the front door of the cab open the entire time.  So airflow isn't a problem either.  But I'll keep it under consideration.  However, none of the temp monitors indicate anything even close to a problem.

I could start swapping things back and forth between the PCs, but I'm trying to avoid that for now, as it's a bit of trouble to do that, so I'm exercising all options available.

[ark_ader]

If it is the latest build of Mame - well that is your problem there.

Revert to a safer build. 

[fallacy]

It was everything freezing on you right? Not just mame.

If so I would say next step would be to replace hard drive and re-format windows. That way if it still does it you can eliminate software issue causing it. If it was the hard drive with bad sectors that would usually cause Blue Screen of Death but you might as well use a hard drive that you know is good just in case.