Viewing Angle of LCD Monitor on a cocktail cabinet

[markronz]

A friend of mine just got a flat screen LCD monitor for his cocktail cabinet.   When he puts it in the cabinet, then sits down to his controls, you can barely see his new monitor.  The viewing angle on the monitor just doesn't work when its that severe.  We can't really lower the screen any more, or anything like that. You just need to look at the monitor when it's straight on, and then it's a fine monitor.

I believe it is this monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009230&cm_re=aCER_lcd-_-24-009-230-_-Product

So I guess this monitor isn't going to work for his cabinet.  He needs to get one with a better viewing angle, where it will still work if it's lying down in front of you like that.   

My question is, is there anything he should look for when shopping for a new monitor to prevent this?  Are there certain specs that tell you about that?  Or is there a non-widescreen model that people suggest to use in a cocktail cab? 17" inches.

Or are all flat screen LCD's like this?  And the only real solution is to get a CRT?  I hope that's not the case, but I've never tried to work with a cocktail cabinet before either, so I guess I don't know.

[BobA]

MVA panel monitor for not much more than a cheaper standard monitor.  Does not fade out when viewed at an angle.

Asus ML249H

[Turnarcades]

Another trick a little birdie once told me to overcome this problem is to mount the monitor upside down. Most LCD's have a narrow vertical viewing angle but it is not evenly directed as it is from the sides - As LCD's will usually be viewed from straight ahead or looked down on slightly, if an LCD had a 90 degree viewing angle it would usually be spread in this manner. So in simple terms, looking at it from any kind of degree from below would ghost the image, whilst looking from quite high above will not ghost it. This means if you flip the monitor and instruct your graphics card to display upside down, you should be able to use your existing monitor rather than forking out for a pricey one. The bios and OS boot screen will be upside down, but once you get to Windows it will display 'the right way up' to where you're sat.

[markronz]

MVA panel monitor for not much more than a cheaper standard monitor.  Does not fade out when viewed at an angle.

Asus ML249H

Ok, that's good to know if I ever need a bigger monitor.   But due to the size of the hole cut into the cocktail arcade's top panel, we need it to be a 17 inch screen.   Do I just need to search for the highest viewing angle or something?

Edit:  I mention below according to the website, it appears the screen can be up to 20 inches, not 17.

Another trick a little birdie once told me to overcome this problem is to mount the monitor upside down. Most LCD's have a narrow vertical viewing angle but it is not evenly directed as it is from the sides - As LCD's will usually be viewed from straight ahead or looked down on slightly, if an LCD had a 90 degree viewing angle it would usually be spread in this manner. So in simple terms, looking at it from any kind of degree from below would ghost the image, whilst looking from quite high above will not ghost it. This means if you flip the monitor and instruct your graphics card to display upside down, you should be able to use your existing monitor rather than forking out for a pricey one. The bios and OS boot screen will be upside down, but once you get to Windows it will display 'the right way up' to where you're sat.

Interesting idea!  Definitely worth a shot!   Thanks for the tip!

[ivwshane]

What you need is an IPS based panel, they are more expensive but they have superior viewing angles.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007617&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=20&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=ips

[markronz]

So for a 17 - 20 inch 4:3 LCD monitor, I can't seem to find anything affordable.   I found this one, but it's too expensive for him.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176176
I guess we were hoping for somewhere in the $100 - 200 range or so.

So I guess, since there's no MVA or IPS monitors that are the right size, and the right price range, we're sort of back to two options then?
1.  Try looking at the monitor upside down and see if the viewing angle is any better.
2.  If not, try to see if we can fit a big CRT in there instead.

Is that right?  Or is there anything we're missing?

[DNA Dan]

Check fleabay:

There's HP - LP2065 and Dell 2007FP both can be found in that price range used and are 20" IPS/PVA panel lottery.

[Donkbaca]

get a pva or IPS 4:3 monitor off ebay.  You can find a 20 inch one for 150 bucks or less usually

[DNA Dan]

I am sure you thought about used, but don't want to deal with dead pixels or junk on fleabay correct?

Just get one from a dealer that offers a return policy. You can also ask them ahead of time if their refurbs have dead pixels or haloing. Most of these are either refurbs or units from businesses that are off lease. I know my workplace uses the 2007FP exclusively, at that is a $450 panel still available from Dell. If you have 7 days or so to return it, you'll be out the shipping costs, but you can at least get your money back. Just run it through it's paces as soon as you get it. Keep it on for hours and inspect closely.

[markronz]

Thank you.  I see some on eBay are much more affordable.  Yes, DNA Dan, thats what I was thinking.  But I think we may be out of other options at this point.  So hopefully we can find a dealer like that on eBay, and find a reasonably priced unit that we can test.

I will have to confirm with my friend, I am not positive what size hole is in the top of the cover on the cocktail cab.  It is a kit from dream arcades:
http://www.dreamarcades.com/3s.shtml
We just got the empty kit, and put our own monitor in there.  But from looking at the site, it looks like Dream Arcades puts a 19" inch monitor in theirs.  So I will have to see if 20" will fit or not.  

I guess if 20" inch fits, then this will be perfect!
If only 19" inches fits, I guess I will need to try to find a 19" IPS/PVA, if those exist?

[markronz]

From Dream Arcade's site:

What size monitor does the cocktail table fit?
Before you buy make sure your monitor will fit inside the system. The interior measurements are: 22 1/2 inches (L) by 18 1/2 inches (W). This fits 17, 19, most 20 and some 21 inch monitors. The table features an adjustable shelf system to fit most monitor depths.

On the FAQ page
http://www.dreamarcades.com/faq.shtml#8

So it sounds like a 20 inch one should fit in there!   I will check around on ebay to see if I can find something that looks good!  Thanks for the help everyone!

[markronz]

Check fleabay:

There's HP - LP2065 and Dell 2007FP both can be found in that price range used and are 20" IPS/PVA panel lottery.

Did you mean IPS/MVA?

I have a question about this.  How do you know those are IPS/MVA panels?  Where would it say such a specification?  I found a review here of the LP2065 model:
http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/hp-lp2065/4505-3174_7-31631892.html?tag=rnav
I don't see IPS or MVA on there.  So how can I tell?

Can't see that on the review of the 2007FP either:
http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/dell-ultrasharp-2007fp/4505-3174_7-31783700.html?tag=mncol;lst;1#reviewPage1

Just wanted to make sure this was the right move before I recommend that my friend buy one.  Just curious how I could have found these two on my own.

Thanks!

[markronz]

From the ebay auction:

The wider viewing angle of this flat panel TFT LCD Monitor allows you to view the screen from various positions without compromising on image quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-UltraSharp-2007FP-20-inch-Flat-Panel-LCD-Monitor-/120715686469?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item1c1b373245

So that sounds very promising, and pretty reasonable!

[DNA Dan]

Dang, I typed a big long reply and it got deleted.

Short answer is no, you can't easily tell by looking at it. Typically monitors that are older (say pre-2008) and are labeled "TFT active Matrix" are non-TN panels. This is just a guide, not a definite answer. 2008 saw a huge influx of TN panels on the market, they are inferior in color/viewing angles, but are cheap to make. So manufacturers have been pushing SIZE to lure consumer to buy them.

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD and familiarize yourself with the tech. I don't know for certain is LP2065 is PVA or MVA but PVA is basically the same tech. It's just from a different manufacturer.

There are some threads on there where people have suggested those two monitors. Also there was a list at one time of IPS monitors.

[Woodshop Flunky]

I know you're looking at LCDs, but have you considered a 19 CRT PC monitor?     The cab from dreamarcades could hold it.

Besides the view quality, you can pick up an old 19" CRT for free to just a little more than free.

Just a thought.

[DNA Dan]

From the ebay auction:

The wider viewing angle of this flat panel TFT LCD Monitor allows you to view the screen from various positions without compromising on image quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-UltraSharp-2007FP-20-inch-Flat-Panel-LCD-Monitor-/120715686469?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item1c1b373245

So that sounds very promising, and pretty reasonable!

That person has no return policy. Also you need to be careful with the 2007FP. If the serial ends in an "S" its a samsung LCD if it ends in "L" Its a Philips/LG LCD.

[markronz]

I know you're looking at LCDs, but have you considered a 19 CRT PC monitor?     The cab from dreamarcades could hold it.

Besides the view quality, you can pick up an old 19" CRT for free to just a little more than free.

Just a thought.

Yeah, we will have to consider that some more too, thanks.  We've been looking for a flat screen so that we didn't have to try to rearrange everything inside the cab.   There's not a lot of room in the cabinet right now.  We have two speakers with a subwoofer, and a mid size tower in there, and a bunch of cables and etc.   I'm guessing if we needed to, we could try a CRT. We'd just have to lie the pc tower down.   I was just trying to keep it away from the subwoofer as much as possible to avoid it shaking too much I guess, so I stood up the PC on the other side of the cab.  Maybe we could consider a down grade in the speaker set too.  We'll have to see how if he likes the extra base or not I guess.   If the subwoofer was gone, then fitting a CRT would be no big deal.  So that's something else to think about I guess.   Thanks for the suggestion.  

[markronz]

That person has no return policy. Also you need to be careful with the 2007FP. If the serial ends in an "S" its a samsung LCD if it ends in "L" Its a Philips/LG LCD.

Ok, I thanks for that information.   I guess I was just linking it for the description.   I hadn't looked around too much yet to find the right vendor.  But that serial stuff is good to know.  Appreciate it!

[EightBySix]

Most monitors quote a viewing angle in the tech specs. They will usually refer to the sideways viewing angle, so it's often best to rotate it 90 deg, if that works for the games you want to play.

[alfonzotan]

Geeks.com is a good place to check for 4:3 monitors.  They don't always have stock (they don't right now), and what they do have in that ratio is usually refurbished, but you can find good deals from time to time.  I got a 20" 4:3 from them last year for (I think) $99 shipped.

[DNA Dan]

Something to remember too is that some PC monitors are actually 5:4 ratio and not 4:3. Just make sure you look over ALL the specs when researching.

[markronz]

If the serial ends in an "S" its a samsung LCD if it ends in "L" Its a Philips/LG LCD.

Was just thinking about this a little more.   Why is this something to be careful of?   Would one manufacturer be better than the other or something?

[DNA Dan]

Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_monitors and scroll down to the 2007FP. On the right hand side you'll see the designation "L" or "S" in the model number indicates if it's an S-IPS (L) or S-PVA (S) LCD. S-IPS = LG/Philips and S-PVA = Samsung.

More on the differences can be found here : http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

Some people cannot tell the difference between the tech, however many people who are familiar with this stuff prefer the S-IPS panels.