How Many Player Buttons... 3 or 4?

[Woodshop Flunky]

The control panel on my upcoming build is going to be 17" across.  To keep clutter down, I was going to have only 3 player buttons.  I have no intention of playing fighters (and if I change my mine I can build a frankenpanel on my next cab )

I could probably squeeze another button on the end, but I wanted you guys to chime in on the added value.

What really awesome games out there require 4 buttons that you guys would not want to live without?  Does Metal Slug actually require 4 buttons.

You can see from my pic that space is pretty tight on my small CP.

Thanks!

[VanillaGorilla]

metal slug = 3 buttons

Do you play Defender/Stargate?

[DaveMMR]

Do a search on MAWS.   Click "ADVANCED SEARCH" and find "buttons", choose 4.   Review the list and see if there are any you really, really want to play.  

If you're not playing fighters though, you're probably fine with 3.

(And off the top of my head, I enjoy NARC which is four buttons.  But Metal Slug only uses three.)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Defender as Vanilla pointed out...

[Woodshop Flunky]

I really like Stargate and Defender when I was a kid.  I must not have gotten any good at it, because the only button I remembered was "Fire"   Found a CP that shows six buttons!

[HanoiBoi]

Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Gravitar, Space Duel, Star Castle and the like.

[SlayerAlex]

if you like beat em ups, the beast beat em up IMO is dungeons and dragons. I play that all the time and it needs 4 buttons. Other then that i cant think of much

[wweumina]

Baseball Stars 2 would be one I would miss.

[Necro]

Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Gravitar, Space Duel, Star Castle and the like.

I'm not sure about all of them, but Asteroids and Asteroids Deluxe 'can' be played with a joy set to 2 way to save on buttons. (Blasphemy, I know.)

[Donkbaca]

I don't think one extra button will allow for too much extra clutter, and it would let you play all the Neo Geo games

[Woodshop Flunky]

Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Gravitar, Space Duel, Star Castle and the like.

I'm not sure about all of them, but Asteroids and Asteroids Deluxe 'can' be played with a joy set to 2 way to save on buttons. (Blasphemy, I know.)

I'm interested in knowing if I can configure a four button CP with a U360 to play Defender?

I love not even having any sawdust on the shop floor yet and already thinking about the need for a second build.  I mean the lack of a trackball alone is reason enough. 

[VanillaGorilla]

There is a mame patch on the boards here somewhere to allow joystick control on defender. That and the 4 buttons would get it going on.

[Malenko]

I don't think one extra button will allow for too much extra clutter, and it would let you play all the Neo Geo games

This

[Woodshop Flunky]

Thanks everyone... I think I'm going to find a way to make the four buttons work on my small CP.

[Necro]

17" is going to be more than enough space for 4 buttons, esp. if you do a NeoGeo style layout.

[ragnar]

17" is going to be more than enough space for 4 buttons, esp. if you do a NeoGeo style layout.

And once you do that, if you have the depth available, why not go 7 button?

[Donkbaca]

And once you do that, if you have the depth available, why not go 7 button?

because he doesn't want to play fighters

[Turnarcades]

And once you do that, if you have the depth available, why not go 7 button?

because he doesn't want to play fighters

Maybe not, but have you considered future expansion or other platforms?

If this is to be your only machine, you may want to play console emulators too, which will require more buttons. You can of course use your admin buttons for lesser-used buttons like select on SNES etc. but I'd say the more the merrier, particularly if it's only a 1-player panel.

[Donkbaca]

just stick with the 4 buttons.  Even if you wanted to play fighters, fighers suck 1p. 

Don't play console games on your cab with a joystick.  Use wireless 3XBox 360 controllers.

[Woodshop Flunky]

Maybe not, but have you considered future expansion or other platforms?

I have considered that I might paint myself into a corner with only four buttons.  But if I do, then I'll have a good excuse for another build   Or, I can just build another CP to replace the original.

[Necro]

Bingo - redoing a wood CP is easy. 

[HanoiBoi]

Flunky, have you considered a button between the joystick and spinner?

It could be used as reverse in defender or stargate, but even more helpful for those who spin with their right hand. A fire button on the left is what they'd want for games like tempest, arkanoid, etc.

Just a thought.

[VanillaGorilla]

You can always add more holes for buttons if need be. Removing them, not so easy...

[Woodshop Flunky]

Flunky, have you considered a button between the joystick and spinner?

It could be used as reverse in defender or stargate, but even more helpful for those who spin with their right hand. A fire button on the left is what they'd want for games like tempest, arkanoid, etc.

Just a thought.

I have considered what to do about the spinner. I've got the spinner and a few buttons mounted on a piece of hardboard to kind of test the layout. I feel much more comfortable operating the spinner with my right hand, but it also feels weird firing with my left hand.  

I added a button on my drawing between the spinner and the joystick.  I also moved the 1p/2p buttons to the front and moved the two admin buttons to the left side.

Any opinions on this new layout? What do you guys think of having the 1p/2p buttons on the front?

[VanillaGorilla]

I really like that! You get a Defender reverse button, and a fire button for tempest in the correct orientation. Being that your spinner is centered, more or less, you could fire from either side. On my classic panel, I have the spinner left of the joystick, and its working out very well. It seemed counter-intuitive at first, but in use, its my favorite layout thus far...

Whatever you do, you are exhibiting a great deal of restraint in your design, and I think thats great. Less is more.

[Woodshop Flunky]

I really like that! You get a Defender reverse button, and a fire button for tempest in the correct orientation. Being that your spinner is centered, more or less, you could fire from either side. On my classic panel, I have the spinner left of the joystick, and its working out very well. It seemed counter-intuitive at first, but in use, its my favorite layout thus far...

Whatever you do, you are exhibiting a great deal of restraint in your design, and I think thats great. Less is more.

Thanks!

Yeah, I don't want guests to have to read a manual to understand the CP.

[HanoiBoi]

Flunky, have you considered a button between the joystick and spinner?

It could be used as reverse in defender or stargate, but even more helpful for those who spin with their right hand. A fire button on the left is what they'd want for games like tempest, arkanoid, etc.

Just a thought.

I have considered what to do about the spinner. I've got the spinner and a few buttons mounted on a piece of hardboard to kind of test the layout. I feel much more comfortable operating the spinner with my right hand, but it also feels weird firing with my left hand.  

I added a button on my drawing between the spinner and the joystick.  I also moved the 1p/2p buttons to the front and moved the two admin buttons to the left side.

Any opinions on this new layout? What do you guys think of having the 1p/2p buttons on the front?

Still looks good, but I don't know about the buttons on the front.  I think you could still safely and easily get those back onto the CP.  As long as you use buttons that are labeled as 1P and 2P, no one will confuse them. 

Another consideration would be to bump the buttons and spinner up a bit to give your palms somewhere to rest.

What are you using the volcano buttons for?  Also, if you keep them on that side, I'd line them up horizontally as previously drawn.  The way they are in this drawing doesn't look quite right to me.

Are you using a coin door? 

(I guess you ruled out Asteroids, etc.?)

[Woodshop Flunky]

Flunky, have you considered a button between the joystick and spinner?

It could be used as reverse in defender or stargate, but even more helpful for those who spin with their right hand. A fire button on the left is what they'd want for games like tempest, arkanoid, etc.

Just a thought.

I have considered what to do about the spinner. I've got the spinner and a few buttons mounted on a piece of hardboard to kind of test the layout. I feel much more comfortable operating the spinner with my right hand, but it also feels weird firing with my left hand. 

I added a button on my drawing between the spinner and the joystick.  I also moved the 1p/2p buttons to the front and moved the two admin buttons to the left side.

Any opinions on this new layout? What do you guys think of having the 1p/2p buttons on the front?

Still looks good, but I don't know about the buttons on the front.  I think you could still safely and easily get those back onto the CP.  As long as you use buttons that are labeled as 1P and 2P, no one will confuse them. 

Another consideration would be to bump the buttons and spinner up a bit to give your palms somewhere to rest.

What are you using the volcano buttons for?  Also, if you keep them on that side, I'd line them up horizontally as previously drawn.  The way they are in this drawing doesn't look quite right to me.

Are you using a coin door? 

(I guess you ruled out Asteroids, etc.?)

The player select buttons I have are labeled, so there shouldn't be any confusion if I decided to put them back topside.

The CP is only 5.5" deep, so the heel of my hand doesn't rest on the CP.  I'm making a mock-up, and I'll see how it all feels before I commit.

The volcano buttons are admins for exit and pause.

I did get the small coin door from Twisted quarter, so I can credit up with coins.  Not visible in the Sketchup image is another button (I'm considering) just under the front of the CP.  It won't be visible from any normal vantage point, but it will be used to credit up without having to open the coin door or go to the swear jar.

I did rule out Asteroids.   Actually, my thinking is that I might only load vertical games on this machine.  I have another son coming up behind the one this is being built for.  My wife told me, I'll need to make a horizontal cabinet for him... so I'd like to work the CP differently on the next one.

[HanoiBoi]

Defender and Stargate are horizontal.  If you aren't planning on loading them, but can reposition that button that's left of the spinner a bit.

Are there many vertical games that would require that 4 button layout?

[Woodshop Flunky]

Are there many vertical games that would require that 4 button layout?

Good point!

I did a MAWS search for Vertical games, that are a Parent, with Good drivers and got 22 titles.  None of these 22 titles were on my list of games to load.  Right now I have a list of 90 games.  About 60 of them are vertical and none of them require more than 3 buttons.

I still might leave the four player buttons right of the spinner, and the other button on the left of the spinner "just in case" I decide to play horizontal games on this cab.

[Donkbaca]

How big is the monitor?  I am guessing pretty small since the CP is so narrow.  If that is the case, horizontal games will be tiny

[Dartful Dodger]

If you really need that 4th button make a second row of 3 so you'll have 6.

[Woodshop Flunky]

How big is the monitor?  I am guessing pretty small since the CP is so narrow.  If that is the case, horizontal games will be tiny

The cab is 50" tall (about the same size as Bella's arcade).  The monitor is a 17" PC CRT.  I've played several horizontal game on it vertically oriented, and it is pretty small.  Besides my younger son, that's another reason I'm considering making this a deticated vertical.  I also think it would be totally cool for each of them to have their own mini cabinet.

[HanoiBoi]

For a kid...I don't know how important that spinner is.  Arkanoid, Cameltry, maybe tempest??

You might get more bang for your buck to squeeze two controls in there with 2 joysticks (total).  For stuff like Trog, Simpsons, TMNT, etc. with a friend.

My kids rarely jump on an play a game themselves.  But they really enjoy playing together or with friends.

Also, my thinking is that most kids might not excel enough to enjoy Defender and Stargate, but could still enjoy Robotron, Crazy Climber, and other duel joystick games.   

I know you didn't ask and I know you're trying to keep the CP minimized - hope I'm not throwing out unwanted comments/thoughts.   

[Woodshop Flunky]

For a kid...I don't know how important that spinner is.  Arkanoid, Cameltry, maybe tempest??

You might get more bang for your buck to squeeze two controls in there with 2 joysticks (total).  For stuff like Trog, Simpsons, TMNT, etc. with a friend.

My kids rarely jump on an play a game themselves.  But they really enjoy playing together or with friends.

Also, my thinking is that most kids might not excel enough to enjoy Defender and Stargate, but could still enjoy Robotron, Crazy Climber, and other duel joystick games.   

I know you didn't ask and I know you're trying to keep the CP minimized - hope I'm not throwing out unwanted comments/thoughts.   

The spinner is actually for me.

I think you're right about the 2 joysticks, but I was planning to put two sticks on the horizontal build since the cab will be wider.  Besides, my oldest is just turning 5 this summer.  He doesn't play cooperatively in any way that requires concentration.  But I know that will change in the near future.  I never played Robotron or Crazy Climber when I was younger, and I was bummed out when I found out they required 2 sticks.

All comments/thoughts are appreciated.  All the suggestions floating around this forum have really helped me to focus on what I will persue and what features I will forgo.

[Lilwolf]

nobody mentioned having two rows of 2?  Some NeoGeo machines came out that way (not most noted, but can be found) and works well with them.

it would reduce the size... 

but the other thing is.  Buy a cheep piece of wood (or you will probaby have some scrap.. and build one... hook it all up and play with it for a week.  Change it around... try again... and THEN get the artwork printed and apply tmolding ect.  I redid my 2 player fighter control panel like 10 times before I finished with a design through out the years.  Takes a few hours... not a big deal on a weekend to try a new design for the next week to tryout.

[Necro]

Agree with lilwolf.  With that size panel, you can get some 'hardboard' (thin MDF type stuff) that they sell at home depot for like $6 for a 2"x4" and make 8 'blanks'.  That's what I'm doing on my cab to demo layouts. 

[Woodshop Flunky]

Agree with lilwolf.  With that size panel, you can get some 'hardboard' (thin MDF type stuff) that they sell at home depot for like $6 for a 2"x4" and make 8 'blanks'.  That's what I'm doing on my cab to demo layouts. 

I actually have a hardboard mock-up sitting on my table right now.  I did that one, though, to make sure the button spacing was comfortable.  There will definitely be a few more of those before I order artwork and start drilling into a 40$ CP.

[HanoiBoi]

Agree with lilwolf.  With that size panel, you can get some 'hardboard' (thin MDF type stuff) that they sell at home depot for like $6 for a 2"x4" and make 8 'blanks'.  That's what I'm doing on my cab to demo layouts. 

I actually have a hardboard mock-up sitting on my table right now.  I did that one, though, to make sure the button spacing was comfortable.  There will definitely be a few more of those before I order artwork and start drilling into a 40$ CP.

Are you aware of slagcoin.com?  They've got CP button layouts that you can print out in actual size.  Great for laying out your controls and drilling out your holes.

[Malenko]

can someone point xouche2 into this thread so he can tell us all how wrong we are?