LCD Tv in cabinet questions

[DataWest]

After messing with my old CRT tv for weeks, I decided that I was not satisfied with the S-Video quality and Im now done. Dont want to mess with weight or the needed depth to the cabinet.

I also have a spare 32'' Polaroid LCD HDTV. I had some questions.

1. What is the best input choice? HDMI or VGA?

2. What is the best scan line program so I can get the old school feel on my TV?

[Howard_Casto]

HDMI is pure digital... VGA is analog... so hdmi...

There aren't any scanline programs... mame has filter options as do a few of the other emulators... that's as good as it gets.

[BobA]

There are some generators that allow you to put in scanlines with hardware.

Hardware Scanlines

[Howard_Casto]

That's pretty cool BUT.... scanlines don't make the game look more realistic... dot pitch filters do.... mame is the only emulator that supports them. 

[DataWest]

Well I got it hooked up with the HDMI and it looks fantastic. I figure I need to build a cab that will allow for the TV's rotation so I get the best possible res on shmups and horizontal games.

Thanks everyone.

[Donkbaca]

hmmm... me thinks you don't want it authentic looking and that you prefer the crisper resolutions

[DataWest]

hmmm... me thinks you don't want it authentic looking and that you prefer the crisper resolutions

I would have it authentic if I could, but I don't have $300-$400 to drop on a real monitor. When it came down to it, my CRT TV was heavy, too low res, and there was nothing I could do to get it to look better.

[jennifer]

hmmm... me thinks you don't want it authentic looking and that you prefer the crisper resolutions

             Finally.... somebody who understands the benifits of the new age!!!

[Donkbaca]

I'm nit judging, just sayin'.... For what its worth a while ago it seemed playing on an LCD was blasphemy, noe there are some who will admit they actually prefer the LCD.  I personally like lcds better...

[DataWest]

I'm nit judging, just sayin'.... For what its worth a while ago it seemed playing on an LCD was blasphemy, noe there are some who will admit they actually prefer the LCD.  I personally like lcds better...

Yeah I thought that at first too when I discovered MAME so long ago. Now that I actually want to build a cabinet I'm restricted by my situation and $. LCD whoops my S-Video connected CRT TV. I could barely make out the freaking high scores. At some point I'll be able to buy a real monitor I hope. (maybe not though as pretty much no one makes them anymore)

[Howard_Casto]

I'm nit judging, just sayin'.... For what its worth a while ago it seemed playing on an LCD was blasphemy, noe there are some who will admit they actually prefer the LCD.  I personally like lcds better...

There have been a lot of advancements.  When lcds first came out, mame didn't handle them well, the colors were washed out... they were pretty much worthless except in their native resolution, ect...

Now mame has some dot-pitch filters that when combined with a high resolution output almost nail the look and natural blending of an arcade monitor perfectly.  This does NOT lower the resolution btw, nor does it blur pixels together like the old "Eagle" blending options back in the day.  It simply removes the blockiness in a natural pattern.  Scanlines don't do this... they actually reduce the resolution by turning off every other line.  Thus why I said you use a dot pitch filter and not scanlines. 

I currently have a similar crisis to deal with.  My aging, original mame cab has a s-video tv in it.  The thing is going out.  If I can't find a 25-27 inch tv with at least component out for a 480p, non-blurry image I'll have the option of putting another crappy svideo tv in there for 200 bucks, buying a 27 inch multi-sync for 5-600 bucks, buying an 8-liner for a hundred only to end up with a cruddy standard-res monitor that won't run vector games well or spend around 200 bucks for a 27 inch flat-panel that will look great, work with my pc without fiddling, but leave huge gaps in the top and bottom of my cabinet.

So basically my options are to throw a decent amount of money in to simply restore the cruddy image quality I already have, spend more money than the cabinet is really worth on a multisync, go on a snipe hunt to find a 27inch crt with component or vga in, or put in a cheap, nice-looking lcd and deal with the annoyance of a 16:9 aspect ratio.  Damn I wish they made huge computer lcds in 4:3 that didn't cost a fortune.

[grasspuddle]

Even though CRTs may look more authentic, I always like a more modern LCD setup. Lighter and higher resolution, plus you can rotate a widescreen and get vertical shooters looking great.

[DataWest]

Even though CRTs may look more authentic, I always like a more modern LCD setup. Lighter and higher resolution, plus you can rotate a widescreen and get vertical shooters looking great.

The vertical aspect for shmups is what sold me. And think about it this way... At some point (not too far in the future) we will all be using LCD's anyway. There will always be the few people that shell out the money for a real monitor, but American manufacturing of them has nearly stopped. It's actually sad.

[Gray_Area]

What are these dot pitch filters?

[Howard_Casto]

They are png images that mame uses to create an artifical screen overtop of the game. Mame has a few that can be accessed via the "effect" flag by using the name of the png you want.  Aperature2x4rb is pretty good but which one you use depends upon your monitor type and the resolution you are using. 

[wweumina]

So, how long until curved lcd's start making their way into cabs?  We already have the convex ) shaped ones on desktop monitors - at a price - but now we're getting convex ( ones:

http://www.asgam.com/news/item/1073-bally-technologies-unveils-industrys-first-curved-lcd-screen-on-its-code-red%E2%84%A2-game.html

[Gray_Area]

They are png images that mame uses to create an artifical screen overtop of the game. Mame has a few that can be accessed via the "effect" flag by using the name of the png you want. 

Oh. I thought you meant something aside from the 'effects'. It's really just a different method than the old ones. Most of them seem really weird to me; I don't recall seeing TVs or arcade monitors those ways, let alone how dim (or perhaps badly) they look. Whoever had that experience must've grown up in serious ghetto land.

So, how long until curved lcd's start making their way into cabs?  We already have the convex ) shaped ones on desktop monitors - at a price - but now we're getting convex ( ones:

It seems pretty implementation-specific.

[Paul Olson]

I am using a 32" LCD now, and I really enjoy it. The sprites are blocky, but I don't mind it as much as I thought I would. I haven't messed with filters yet. I just got tired of trying to fight for all of the real resolutions. There are just too many compromises you have to make, and it just wan't worth the effort to me anymore. When I get some time this summer, I want to try to mess with the lay files a bit to take advantage of the wide screen.

The greatest benefit for me is the ability to use all of the high res artwork now. It really looks nice.

[scofthe7seas]

Aren’t the sprites supposed to be blocky?   When I first started setting up my cabinet (knowing nothing of the features) I was delighted to find the –nohwstretch option. I want my pacman blocky and jaggy! Not smooth and roundish.
Onto the topic of LCD, there are two downfalls that I can think of. First off, if you want scanlines, you need to either A: Reduce your resolution (which essentially creates its OWN HW-stretching (thumbs down.) or B: Recreate one of those PNG effects files, because at a high native resolution those PNGs are tiny tiny tiny. They need to be enlarged quite a bit. I haven’t tried this, but I assume it works, because at their own relative small resolution compared to native LCD res, MAME has to redraw that PNG THOUSANDS of times. Which completely destroys performance (even on a high end PC!!)
The second downfall is the difficulty in mounting at exactly the proper angle to match up with everything else. CRTs or TVs have a very solid base to rest on, and they only need angle adjustment to sit correctly. Ugh. I just did this last night, because on its current standard stand, my LCD was lined up with the bezel, but wobbling all to hell during vigorous play. Careful measurement, guidelines and well cut wood, plus a barrel full of sweat and frustration. I would have been in tears if it were somehow off center after that work. If you put an LCD in, do it first. Don’t wait until the end to set it in there!