Kind of Overwhelmed and Unsure of Where to Begin an Arcade Project

[awesomesauce22]

OK,

Here's essentially all of my knowledge when it comes to this topic at this point in time:

1.  I am going to order the Project Arcade book within the next day or so so I can read up on starting a project.
2.  I live in Northern New Jersey and so far the only place that I've heard of within 2 hours away that sells gutted arcade cabinets is TNT Amusements in Southampton, PA (granted that's still not the closest place in the world)
3.  I have a friend who will probably be able to give me a PC with (not 100% positive about specs) a 20GB Hard Drive and 512 MB RAM that's currently running Windows XP.
4.  My budget is currently set at $200-$300
5.  I'm a High School Senior who's not particularly handy to say the least so I would prefer a project that's relatively simple.

And that's pretty much what I'm looking at so far.  Like I said, I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed right now since I know that there are almost an infinite number of ways that someone could go about building their own arcade machine.  So that is why I would definitely appreciate some advice as to where I should start, what items I should buy, where I can buy these items, etc...  So if there are any tips and/or  bits of advice that anyone can offer me it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again (and sorry for all of the questions),

awesomesauce22
 

[leapinlew]

OK,

Here's essentially all of my knowledge when it comes to this topic at this point in time:

1.  I am going to order the Project Arcade book within the next day or so so I can read up on starting a project.
2.  I live in Northern New Jersey and so far the only place that I've heard of within 2 hours away that sells gutted arcade cabinets is TNT Amusements in Southampton, PA (granted that's still not the closest place in the world)
3.  I have a friend who will probably be able to give me a PC with (not 100% positive about specs) a 20GB Hard Drive and 512 MB RAM that's currently running Windows XP.
4.  My budget is currently set at $200-$300
5.  I'm a High School Senior who's not particularly handy to say the least so I would prefer a project that's relatively simple.

And that's pretty much what I'm looking at so far.  Like I said, I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed right now since I know that there are almost an infinite number of ways that someone could go about building their own arcade machine.  So that is why I would definitely appreciate some advice as to where I should start, what items I should buy, where I can buy these items, etc...  So if there are any tips and/or  bits of advice that anyone can offer me it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again (and sorry for all of the questions),

awesomesauce22
 

1. Good job on ordering the book. Take your time going through it and you'll be well educated on some of your options.
2. Craigslist! Check and check often. You can use a program which scours craigslist for you and emails you when someone posts a match.
3. Craigslist is another option for a computer, but to find out how much computer you need why don't you tell us the kinds of games you'll be playing. We'll need to know this to determine the best controls for you too.
4. The $300 price range is reasonable as long as you get a gutted machine cheap to free.
5. You definitely want to refurb an old machine. You may need to borrow a few tools to cut a few things, but it'll be good practice.

What kind of monitor you plan on using? Don't skimp on the artwork, it makes all the difference between a a rookie attempt and a quality product.

Remember your first machine may not be your ultimate machine, so do what you have to do to get it up and running. When it's up and running and your enjoying it, you can start working on the 2.0 version of your machine.

[awesomesauce22]

I just checked Craigslist and didn't  happen to see anything of interest at the moment.  By the way, what's the name of that program that searches Craigslist and emails you when someone posts a match?  As far as the Computer, I have a friend who has a bunch of CDs with like 3,000 ROMs in total on them so I need a computer that can handle like 3,000 arcade game ROMs (I don't believe that any of the games' graphics require any sort of Supercomputer and to quote my friend "If your computer can run XP, then you'll most likely be fine").  As far as the monitor I think that maybe a 27'' should be fine.  I just don't know what kind of monitor it is that I'm looking for.     

[SavannahLion]

Keep searching Craigslist. I picked up a few cabs, some for free, and I'm still kicking myself for skipping that Tempest. The key here is patience. That crappy gutted Metallica cab was listed six times already between $50 TO $75. You couldn't pay me to take it. There was nothing for six months when I started searching then BOOM got a cab. Six months later got another two and missed the Tempest.

Decide what you want in a cab. Pick only one or two such as a big monitor and two players. Then look for a cab that can take that kind of hardware. Since you're starting out, your first cab will dictate the hardware not the other way around.

Be open to the cab. My very first cab is a Hang-On which is virtually pointless to convert. But I got a crazy amount of goodies with it. Quite a bit of it having nothing to do with the cab. Most of that stuff could be sold. Funding the project or put towards a better cab.

[ark_ader]

Get yourself an X Arcade.  You can enjoy the experience of arcade controls, and and have it portable.

When you feel like you would want to go the whole enchilada, then get a cab and fit it out.  You can always use the parts in your X arcade.

If you feel that the scene is not for you - then you can always sell it.

 

[methodical]

In the Free Items thread (Buy/sell/trade section)

"Gutted Donkey Kong Jr Cab, has monitor brackets, speaker, coin door, marquee fixture, cp clamps, casters. Needs major cosmetic work Pickup in Jackson NJ."

Not exactly North Jersey but still free.

[Cenobyte]

OK,

3.  I have a friend who will probably be able to give me a PC with (not 100% positive about specs) a 20GB Hard Drive and 512 MB RAM that's currently running Windows XP.

Be aware that a machine with lighter capabilities like an early XP machine (which I presume you have, looking at your hard drive specs) will only allow you to run the older games, say pre-1990's. Anything newer will probably not run (smoothly) on your pc, I guess. You can make a division at around 1993, when the 3D games arrived: your pc will run these at a playable fashion.

[leapinlew]

The 3,000 games all require different controls. 4 way joysticks, 8 way joysticks, trackballs, spinners, steering wheels, pedals, yokes, top fire joysticks, etc. Not only that but the monitor orientation changes per game also. You probably won't be happy with 1 machine that can play them all and your budget for sure will limit you. You need to think about what games you really want to play on this machine and build a machine that can play those games well.

You can find many discussions on this forum regarding all-in-one style control panels. They are called Frankenpanels - do a search and do lots of reading.

[Brian B]

Savannah, I have a tempest cab I'm looking to unload!  (in L.A.)  The ad is in the FS/FT area.

B.

Keep searching Craigslist. I picked up a few cabs, some for free, and I'm still kicking myself for skipping that Tempest. The key here is patience. That crappy gutted Metallica cab was listed six times already between $50 TO $75. You couldn't pay me to take it. There was nothing for six months when I started searching then BOOM got a cab. Six months later got another two and missed the Tempest.

Decide what you want in a cab. Pick only one or two such as a big monitor and two players. Then look for a cab that can take that kind of hardware. Since you're starting out, your first cab will dictate the hardware not the other way around.

Be open to the cab. My very first cab is a Hang-On which is virtually pointless to convert. But I got a crazy amount of goodies with it. Quite a bit of it having nothing to do with the cab. Most of that stuff could be sold. Funding the project or put towards a better cab.

[Donkbaca]

+1 on the x-arcade advice.  

Its easy, relatively cheap, well built.  From my experience, the ages 19-29 are pretty transient years, I don't know if you want to put all that work into a MAME cab and then have it be a liability to haul around later.   I say build a bar top, or just get an x-arcade and find an old laptop with some sort of video out and there you have it, a somewhat portable arcade machine that you can hook up to a TV.  If you ever decided that the hobby isn't for you, you can sell the x-arcade for just about what you paid for it, if you decide that you really want to build a cab at some future date, you can cannibalize the joysticks, buttons and encoder.

That's pretty much what I did, had an x-arcade in my 20's, saw it laying in my garage last summer and finally figured it was time to build a cab.  Between the ages of 18 and 29 I probably lived in 2 dozen places.  Moving is a pain, and having to haul an arcade cabinet from place to place is only asking for disaster.

[CheffoJeffo]

Since when did this place become JBAWAACP ? 

Just Buy A Weakass Arcade Control Panel

[Donkbaca]

If he builds a cab he's gonna drop like 2-300 bucks and it will either 1) stay at his parents house, where it will get relegated to the garage or basement to decay or 2) He will have to lug it from apartment to apartment until one of the roomates invariably f-s it up. 

Just giving some real advice.  Doesn't make sense for everyone to have a cab.  I guess he could build a cp, maybe even build a cp with a micro pc inside, but why? The kids just getting his feet wet in the hobby, makes sense to ease into it.  The seeds for a cab were put in my mind when my roomate brought home a x-arcade 10 years ago.  Its a good, low risk gateway.

[javeryh]

In the Free Items thread (Buy/sell/trade section)

"Gutted Donkey Kong Jr Cab, has monitor brackets, speaker, coin door, marquee fixture, cp clamps, casters. Needs major cosmetic work Pickup in Jackson NJ."

Not exactly North Jersey but still free.

Dude that post is 4 years old!  I was all excited for a second.   

[awesomesauce22]

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/zip/2292250090.html

Worth it?

[Donkbaca]

It is free, but here is what you are going to have to do:
If the monitor works, and you want to use it, you are going to need an arcade VGA, that requires a fairly decent pc since you will need a pci express card. That will run you 100 bucks.  You are going to have to build a cp. Cheapest you van get that done, let's say 10 bucks for wood, 20 bucks for joys, another 20 bucks for buttons, get a cheap USB encoder for 25 bucks.

You are up around 200 bucks already, this assuming you have a pc already.  Let's say you have a CRT to put in it and decide to ditch the monitor in it. That would save you about 100 bucks assuming you get the CRT for free and can get an s video out card for like 10 bucks on eBay

So you are looking at 100-200 bucks just to get it up and running, assuming you have a free pc.

You can print out a cp overlay at staples for like 10 bucks, a marquee is probably going to set you back around 40 bucks including the plexiglass. Probably 20 bucks for paint, another 20 bucks for screws, wiring and misc.

That's about the cheapest I think you can go

[SavannahLion]

Savannah, I have a tempest cab I'm looking to unload!  (in L.A.)  The ad is in the FS/FT area.

B.

Keep searching Craigslist. I picked up a few cabs, some for free, and I'm still kicking myself for skipping that Tempest. The key here is patience. That crappy gutted Metallica cab was listed six times already between $50 TO $75. You couldn't pay me to take it. There was nothing for six months when I started searching then BOOM got a cab. Six months later got another two and missed the Tempest.

Decide what you want in a cab. Pick only one or two such as a big monitor and two players. Then look for a cab that can take that kind of hardware. Since you're starting out, your first cab will dictate the hardware not the other way around.

Be open to the cab. My very first cab is a Hang-On which is virtually pointless to convert. But I got a crazy amount of goodies with it. Quite a bit of it having nothing to do with the cab. Most of that stuff could be sold. Funding the project or put towards a better cab.

Biggest problem is that I'm all the way up in Sacramento. My only chance to snag that cab is in Seal Beach and I doubt I can convince the future brother in law to fetch it. My other chance is somewhere East of Tulare and she's got a muffin in the oven. Fat chance on that. No way I can bring the truck that far down South without bringing the kidlets and the van is so ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up I'm not going anywhere with it.

[CapriRS302]

DO NOT BUY X-ARCADE CONTROLS!!!!

I have only seen one machine that integrated and x arcade tankstick somewhat seamlessly, all of the others look laughable.  Plus, wiring up the control panel is half the fun, its a great experience, and you get to make your own design.

If I were you I would also plan on doubling your budget, if not now, over time.  The control panel will cost you between 200-300 bucks alone, plus another 50-75 for the cab, money for paint, decals, marquee...

If you use a CRT monitor it will be extremely cheap ($30 for a 21 inch, if you can find one) and be plug and play.

Remember you can always change things later, BUT you may have regrets if you go cheap.  For example, when I built my machine I bought the cheapest trackball I could find, one of the ones that has a trackball that is basically a cueball.  For an extra 40 bucks at the time I could have had a Happ trackball just like the ones in all of the modern arcade games.  Now I either have to spend the full hundred or so to get one, or just live with my regret.

Good Luck!

[Donkbaca]

I bought an x-arcade, yeah slapping it on as a CP looks stupid, but taking the guts of it and using it for a CP is fine, its what I am doing.

Double his budget?  The kid is 18 years old! If I was 18 and had 600 bucks, I wouldn't spend it on a cabinet to play 20 year old games. 

My sincere advice:
Buy an x-arcade off of ebay.  Get a 500 - 2tb external hard drive, whatever you can find for about 60 bucks or less.  Set up your FE and all your roms on the external hard drive.  There you go, for about 150 bucks you will be set.  When you have more time, money and space you can build/buy a cab, use the guts of the x-arcade and have all your software already set up.

Spend the rest of you money on illicit booze or a killer spring break trip.  There is plenty of time to get a proper cab when you have the time, space and money to dedicate to one.  There won't be another time in your life to spend spring break on the beach with a hundred thousand coeds and fit in...

[CheffoJeffo]

Here is my sincere, and better, advice.

• Buy the book.
• Read the book.
• Play some games to see what you like.

Don't take any other advice until you have completed these steps.

If you decide that you don't want a full cabinet, then you have other options, many of which are superior to the aforementioned X-Arcade, but there is no shame in using an X-Arcade as a standalone control panel.

If you decide that you want a cabinet, an X-Arcade typically isn't a good place to start, as Donkbaca may now be realizing. Cabs can be done on the cheap, so don't let anybody tell you what you have to spend. Going cheap typically requires more work, but most of that will be stuff that doesn't require vast woodworking or electrical skills.

Be patient -- you are correct -- there are tons of options and lots to learn. Have a look at some of the projects -- many may seem extravagent, but there are lots of nice, simple and cheap builds out there.

 

[leapinlew]

I bought an X-arcade and returned it. I was new to the hobby and I wasn't a controller snob, but even way back then I knew that the x-arcade just didn't feel right. I attempted to put the guts in a CP I built, and there was a problem with many of the cable groups not being long enough. Furthermore, the encoder is wonky.

I ended up sending it back and they charged me a 10 or 20% restock fee.

I'd recommend a couple supers and an iPac any day of the week.

[Donkbaca]

If you decide that you want a cabinet, an X-Arcade typically isn't a good place to start, as Donkbaca may now be realizing.

I find this insulting.  I am doing just fine with using an x-arcade as my start. Got many good years out if it and it now lives on as the guts to my new CP.  Even if I didn't decide to gut the thing I could have sold it on e-bay and gotten just about what I put into it.  Sure the x-arcade encoder is a little different since it doesn't have a common ground, and the wires are a little short, but extending wires isn't at all difficult, and the encoder works just fine.

There is nothing wrong with an x-arcade.  The kid is 18, he doesn't have fond memories of the wonders of leaf switch buttons and joysticks that people on this forum go nuts over.  The arcade cabs in his memory are more likely Neo geo multi slots, dynamo cabs and crappy conversions on beat up old cabs.  Most, scratch that ALL of my friends that aren't hard core arcade nerds think the x-arcade is great. 

Going cheap is pretty much near impossible.  Unless you have a free pc, a free monitor and a free cab, and already have all the tools, its pretty hard to keep a 2 player build under 200 bucks unless you get really lucky.  Add up the minimum cost, people always leave stuff out, because they have stuff laying around.    The kid is 18, he probably doesn't have a woodshop at his disposal.

Look I don't want to be negative, and if you really want to build a cab, I am all for it, but lets not pretend like its something that will be cheap and easy.  Maybe this kids situation is different than that of mine and my friends, but anything over 200 -300 bucks is a lot of money to a kid that age, and he could invest in an x-arcade off ebay, and a external hard drive and try out everything.  If he really digs it, he can either gut the x-arcade or resell it for probably what he put in for it, plus or minus 20 bucks.  He could plug his external right in to his dedicated cab and use it, or transfer it all over.

If he decides it isn't worth it to build a cab, he can still play his games.

If he decides its a passing fad, and not as cool as he thought, he can ebay the x-arcade as mentioned and either keep the external hd, they are always useful to have around, or wipe and ebay that too.

To me that makes a lot more sense then buying a cab, dumping a bunch of money and then potentially being stuck with a cab that there is no way he will be able to make his money back on. 

Not to mention the opportunity cost of that money.

[CheffoJeffo]

If you decide that you want a cabinet, an X-Arcade typically isn't a good place to start, as Donkbaca may now be realizing.

I find this insulting. 

Fair enough, but it isn't as if I making this stuff up.

Going cheap is pretty much near impossible.  Unless you have a free pc, a free monitor and a free cab, and already have all the tools, its pretty hard to keep a 2 player build under 200 bucks unless you get really lucky.  Add up the minimum cost, people always leave stuff out, because they have stuff laying around.    The kid is 18, he probably doesn't have a woodshop at his disposal.

I find this ignorant.

My last MAME cab cost me less than $100 to get up and running. My last desktop CP cost me less than $50, including encoder and a shiny NOS Wico stick.

How much was that X-Arcade again ?

Again, best advice is to read the damned book.

[Donkbaca]

Right, but you are an old man with a house and tools who has built lots of stuff in the past, not a 18 year old kid with presumably no tools and zero woodworking experience.  If he has to buy a router, that's at least 100 bucks right there, and its not like me who thinks "well its an investment for other projects"  Most 18 year olds have no need for a router.

Please detail the costs of this 50 bucks.  How much did you pay for sticks?  Buttons? Encoder? T-molding? CP Overlay/paint? wood? Wiring/screws/misc?

I am guessing it was probably so cheap because you had some of this stuff laying around.  Its always cheaper and easier to build your nth project than it is your first when you have nothing and you have to get EVERYTHING. 

Am I saying it CAN'T be done cheaply and well?  No, but I'll bet there are a lot more people on this board that spent WAY more than they thought on their FIRST build then those who spent only 100 bucks in total.

+1 on buying the book

I'd suggest making a spreadsheet to see how much you would need to spend, a lot of little things, like screw, drill bits, router bits, wiring, those type of things add up to more than you would think.

Like I said, I am not trying to say I know everything, or that he shouldn't build the cab, I am just trying to give perspective.  I am not going to pretend like, "oh hey, no problem, just shake the change out of your couch and spend a weekend with a six pack of beer and a buddy and you will have an awesome cab."  Because, generally, it doesn't work out that way... ever.

[CapriRS302]

Now now gentlemen.....   

It is expensive though, and almost everyone here went over budget I'm sure.

[CheffoJeffo]

Get offa my lawn.  

If he gets a proper donor cab, WTF would he need a router ?

I have a router, but haven't used it on a cab project in years.

Again, with some patience and armed with even a modicum of knowledge, this stuff can be done on virtually any budget.

It *is* very easy to underestimate costs on a build, but if you shop wisely, pay attention, reuse parts of donor cabs, get computers and monitors for free and simply borrow any basic tools that you may need, you can actually build cabs for practically free. Reusing stuff from donor cabs is a great place to save money -- to start reuse the sticks and buttons, then as you learn more about your preferences and save some cash, buy shiny new stuff. I have helped a few folks build cabs this way.

[Donkbaca]

I completely disagree, you should trash all the controls you get, especially if you got the cab for free.  After all, you get what you pay for.

I say you "borrow" a router from Cheffo then ebay it and use the cash to buy an x-arcade, he never uses his router anyway and he probably won't miss it.

hahahaha... .nevermind, can't keep it up.  Cheffo has some great wisdom to share.  I think if you combine our advice, here is what you should do:

Buy the book and read it, saint has whole sections on control panels, bar tops and other non-cab solutions.

Figure out a few things.  What kind of games do you want to play?  How much space do you have to dedicate to a cab?  Do you want it to be portable?  Do you want to be able to tuck it in closet so that chicks don't think you are a geek?

Figure out what you have, and what you need to get.  Budget down to the last screw, add 10%.

The awesome thing about this hobby is that the core of it is enjoying the old arcade games using arcade controls, there are literally thousands of ways to get that done, depending on what you want, how much you want to spend, etc.  Figure out what you want, and what's best for you.  If you think that you will be able to build some super machine that will play 3,000 games, well I have some sobering news; you won't be able to.  First of all some games aren't playable; second some are only playable if you have a really high end pc; third some are playable only with the right controls, such as steering wheels, light guns, flight sticks, that stupid 720 controller. Finally, the truth is, a LOT of those games are foreign/gambling/mahjong/clones or just plain lame games that you wouldn't want to play anyway.  In the end you won't be able to play everything, and if you tried to build a machine that played everything, it would be huge, ugly and expensive.

I would say build the machine around lets say 1 or 2 genres of game you like and make compromises.  For example, is it worth it to spend 60 bucks on that trackball?  For me the answer was no, if your answer is yes, well then I have a trackball to sell you if you want....

[leapinlew]

I would say build the machine around lets say 1 or 2 genres of game you like and make compromises.  For example, is it worth it to spend 60 bucks on that trackball?  For me the answer was no, if your answer is yes, well then I have a trackball to sell you if you want....

Great advice... I can hardly believe Donkbaca said it. 

[Donkbaca]

Great advice... I can hardly believe Donkbaca said it. 

Hey you put enough monkeys in a room...

[DNA Dan]

I posted earlier that the OP should consider a pre-fab bartop but I think because I had a link in there the admins chucked it.

Anyway, I agree with others that you need to think portability. $200-300 could get eaten up on just a control panel easily. Maybe just making a large CP with a disassembled computer inside it would give you portability to hook it up to any TV or Monitor?

[ark_ader]

Actually I like the comments made in X arcade defense, but in reality it is far more easier if you look at this idea:

The stock original Xbox can and does play arcade games very well.  You can get a good collection like CoinOPS on the stock hard drive and it has a nice front end.

I can buy the xbox at £15 at my local pawn shop, I'm sure you can snag one for $30-$40.  Most of the Xbox games [DOA Volleyball Nude Patched  ] can be played on a cab anyway. 

The Xbox is small and self contained, and there is tons of information on modding the thing.  I can help there.

You can plumb for a Xarcade on ebay second hand, but we need to be more in the spirit of this site.

Make a control panel, and buy the sticks and buttons.  Randy has a good collection at groovygamegear and his prices are fab. 

Randy: if you are watching, can you please quote us for a stock set of controls or a CP?  Two supers and 28 buttons. $80ish?

Find yourself two MadCatz controllers and hack it to the buttons of your control panel.

Then there is wood and the mechanics of cutting it without losing any fingers.  Heck some places cut it for you for a charge.

So we have $120 for a 18 year old is pretty good, and if he can spring for a bit more for wood he can have a good cabinet made.

Say in six months and they guys have moved on to other endevours - sell it for $300. 

Or setup a side business making the things for your buddies for beer or gas money.

[dextercf]

protip: lurk more at this forum!

Spend hours and hours on browsing the forums, read the book and as CheffoJeffo said; play loads of games before you make up your mind.

[BobA]

Just go for it.  You can spend your whole life working out the small details of your cab without anything ever getting done.