SideWinder StarGate Control Panel Hack

[D_Harris]

I'm working on a dedicated StarGate MAME control panel for a friend and I'm using the (game port)SideWinder hack.

I've completed all of the soldering after reading StaticX's hack page, and when I load StarGate in WolfMAME 106 defaults to 8 specific game play switches that are used on the SideWinder for the following:

FIRE
THRUST
SMART BOMB
INVISO
HYPER SPACE
REVERSE
MOVE UP
MOVE DOWN

With the single ground daisy chained to each of those 8 switches that represents a total of 9 leads.

So that leaves the still unused 7 SideWinder controls I have leads soldered to: "Move Left", "Move Right", "Left Trigger", "Right Trigger", "M", "Start", and "Mode".

None of these do anything. (Except Mode, which appears to turn off the controller).

Can anyone tell me how to activate "Player 1" and "Player 2" start, as well as the "Coin", "Pause" and "exit" options from the control panel so I won't need to use the keyboard?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Blanka]

Just wire them to the unused buttons, and remap the stuff with your mame button ini.

[TOK]

Not a huge deal, but Stargate and Defender both have freeplay modes built into them so don't need to wire a coin button if you don't want to.

[D_Harris]

Ok. I'll have to figure out how to manipulate the "mame button ini".

As long as it's possible, then no problem.

As for free play, I think he wants the option of using coins.(Especially if the attract screen act differently under free play).

So, this is where I'm at. To get coin up, player 1, player 2, pause, and exit I'll re-map the right trigger, left trigger, move right, move left, and start(which doesn't appear to do anything in MAME anyway).

But does anyone know what the normal function is of the "PR" button(#10) on the SideWinder? I assume that the Mode button just turns the controller off.

Thanks.

P.S.: Below are some diagrams I drew up for SideWinder hacking.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

Ok, to wrap this up.

The only leads that I haven't as yet connect to ground are the one's belonging to A) Start: SW #9, B) Shift(M): SW#10, and C) Mode inputs.

"Mode" is just to turn the SideWinder off, but I also don't at present have the "Shift" and "Start" connected completely because the are always "on".(I don't know if that would be an issue).

But I'm hoping that at least one of those two can be re-mapped also. (Apparently, by default, these three inputs are not used in MAME).

In the diagram below, the red buttons are the working default SideWinder->StarGate buttons. At the front of the control panel the blue buttons convey the inputs I connected to them. and the green button is as yet not designated.

I built this for a friend who is practicing to get the MAME record. He wanted a dirty CP with a tight joystick and loose buttons.(Which is what you want for this game).

I had to cannibalize several control panels to get what I needed to build this one up, but it is done.

Lastly, I was told about a "lag" issue in MAME when playing StarGate. Does anyone know anything about this?

While testing out this control panel I experienced the kind of lag that you get when the CPU is over-loaded processing a lot of on-screen movement, but I experienced it regardless of whether there was a lot going on or not. (The PC I'm using is a 866Mhz Pentium III, with 512mb).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

UPDATE:

It appears that XP doesn't always recognized the things it is supposed to.

The control panel worked perfectly in XP/MAME for me without me having to do much outside of plugging it into the game port.

The control panel is now in possession of my friend who installed XP on a system with an audio card so he could use the game port also. Unfortunately his system does not see the SideWinder.

Outside of making sure his audio card drivers are the latest can anyone recommend what other steps may be taken to get the SideWinder to work?

Are there specific drivers for the SideWinder that can be downloaded from somewhere?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[boardjunkie]

Its not seen under "game controllers" in the windoze control panel? Sometimes you need to manually add the controller and then calibrate it.

[D_Harris]

Its not seen under "game controllers" in the windoze control panel? Sometimes you need to manually add the controller and then calibrate it.

Yes, I know. He said that XP is just not seeing it. The following are the instructions I gave him. (I assume that I didn't miss anything)...
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The Microsoft SideWinder should be plug and play with XP. You shouldn't need to load any drivers. (I did nothing but plug it in and it ran perfectly in MAME).

A) I am using XP, so I assume that if you go to Control Panel you will also get what is shown in image #1

B) When you click "Game Controllers" you get what you see in image #2. If it doesn't say "Microsoft SideWinder game pad" with the status as "OK", click the "Add" button. This will bring up a list. On that list highlight "Microsoft SideWinder(Auto Detect)". You may have to do this several times in order to get it to recognize the SideWinder attached to your PC.

C) But if the status says OK, then click "Properties". You will get a second window titled "Microsoft SideWinder game pad properties" like that shown in image #3.

D) Click the "Test" tab. If you press the following buttons on your control panel the corresponding actions should show in that window:

Fire---------------------- Button #1
Thrust------------------- Button #2
Smart Bomb------------- Button #3
Inviso-------------------- Button #5
Hyper Space------------ Button #6
Reverse----------------- Button #4
Up----------------------- X-Y Axis Box(Up)
Down-------------------- X-Y Axis Box(Down)
Player 1----------------- Button #7
Player 2----------------- Button #8
Front Left Button------ X-Y Axis Box(Left)
Front Right Button----- X-Y Axis Box(Right)

Outside of that, make sure the drivers of your audio card are updated. If this fails, let me know and I'm look into it further.

Darren
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So as I mentioned, it worked fine on my PC which also has XP. The question is, are there any SideWinder drivers I can direct him to try?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[BobA]

Don't know about the driver for the gamepad but you could get him to check if the gameport is showing up in the device manager.

[SavannahLion]

It has been years since I plugged in my sidewinder. Mode doesn't do what you think it does, you need the MS sidewinder drivers for it to function properly. IIRC, its related to whether the controller is seen as an analog pot based controller or a digital controller. I don't recall what the default setting for this mode is.

It's been a long time so I could be wrong. Under XP I think it has sidewinder drivers built in and the analog/digital mode is pointless so it probably just disabled the controller by default. Not that it matters. Gameport is no longer supported anyways. Stupid way to handle it. better to just use it as input. Oh well.

[D_Harris]

Don't know about the driver for the gamepad but you could get him to check if the gameport is showing up in the device manager.

I asked him to check to make sure his audio card was working. Hopefully when he gets back tonight he'll let me know.

It has been years since I plugged in my sidewinder. Mode doesn't do what you think it does, you need the MS sidewinder drivers for it to function properly. IIRC, its related to whether the controller is seen as an analog pot based controller or a digital controller. I don't recall what the default setting for this mode is.

It's been a long time so I could be wrong. Under XP I think it has sidewinder drivers built in and the analog/digital mode is pointless so it probably just disabled the controller by default. Not that it matters. Gameport is no longer supported anyways. Stupid way to handle it. better to just use it as input. Oh well.

All "Mode" did on my system was turn the SideWinder off. I'd then have to go back and add SideWinder in "Add Game Controller". So I left it unconnected. (I also left "Start"(Button #9) and "Shift"(Button #10) unconnected).

The other 12 inputs are default mapped and connected to a switch on the control panel.

I just don't know why some XP installations will not see the SideWinder. (But again, I'll see what he says about his audio card working in "Device Manager and over the speakers).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

In any case, I found Sidewinder utility at Microsoft, but it's for 95/98, not XP. Don't know if it functions or even necessary under Windows XP. Wikipedia mentions that some Gameport hardware don't play nice with the Sidewinder controllers (namely Gravis cards, go figure) so that might be an issue.

In all seriousness, is there a particular reason why you're hacking antiquated hardware? Why not locate a USB based pad and bypass this whole issue entirely?

[D_Harris]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

From my understanding the mode button was for if a gamer accidentally bumped one of the inputs of the SideWinder connected to his PC, it wouldn't screw up what ever he was working on.

In any case, I found Sidewinder utility at Microsoft, but it's for 95/98, not XP. Don't know if it functions or even necessary under Windows XP. Wikipedia mentions that some Gameport hardware don't play nice with the Sidewinder controllers (namely Gravis cards, go figure) so that might be an issue.

Perhaps he'll just  have to try a different audio card.

In all seriousness, is there a particular reason why you're hacking antiquated hardware? Why not locate a USB based pad and bypass this whole issue entirely?

The hack was done and worked perfectly with my PC running XP. Now It just needs to work with another PC running XP.

I have a 1/2 dozen game port SideWinders. They are easy to hack and all work with my system. They are not antiquated. They are just no longer supported. They are perfect for simple control panels for playing classic games in MAME.

When I asked him it the game port was showing up in device manager and if the sound card, which is an oem Sound  Blaster live! from an old Dell, was working he said yes.

And he said that he can add the Logitech Wingman,  which doesn't show as connected in the "game controller" settings. 

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

From my understanding the mode button was for if a gamer accidentally bumped one of the inputs of the SideWinder connected to his PC, it wouldn't screw up what ever he was working on.

Hhmm... I don't recall that as ever being an issue. I left my MS Sidewinder plugged in on my desk for years and not once ever had an issue with "accidently" hitting a button. I had more problems with my cat sleeping inside my PC.

Now that I think about it, the Sidewinder did allow daisy chaining. The mode button might have allowed the Sidewinder to turn into, what is essentially, a glorified extension cord for the Gameport.

I should still have the manual for the Gamepad hidden away somewhere (I've moved a couple of time since, so all the legacy junk are in boxes, but I rarely throw manuals away unless some moron in my family finds them and tosses them.) I'll see if I can dig it up. Hopefully the manual wasn't one they put on CD.

[SavannahLion]

They are not antiquated. They are just no longer supported.

Don't get me wrong, I love my antique stuff. There was some really kick ass Gameport hardware that modern USB hardware don't put a candle to.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what that means in modern computing. We've gone way past the legacy stuff here.

[D_Harris]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

From my understanding the mode button was for if a gamer accidentally bumped one of the inputs of the SideWinder connected to his PC, it wouldn't screw up what ever he was working on.

Hhmm... I don't recall that as ever being an issue. I left my MS Sidewinder plugged in on my desk for years and not once ever had an issue with "accidently" hitting a button. I had more problems with my cat sleeping inside my PC.

Obviously they saw that it was a useless function and dropped it on subsequent SideWinder releases.

Now that I think about it, the Sidewinder did allow daisy chaining. The mode button might have allowed the Sidewinder to turn into, what is essentially, a glorified extension cord for the Gameport.

Actually, it does that automatically when you plug one into the other. Nothing else has to be done.

quote author=SavannahLion link=topic=110415.msg1174546#msg1174546 date=1301812880]

They are not antiquated. They are just no longer supported.

Don't get me wrong, I love my antique stuff. There was some really kick ass Gameport hardware that modern USB hardware don't put a candle to.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what that means in modern computing. We've gone way past the legacy stuff here.

Microsoft makes a lot a money by making sure software and hardware becomes obsolete.

I just received an e-mail back from my friend who finally got the control panel working with another computer. (See below)...

DONE!  I finally got it working tonight! I had another old computer with a gameport built on the motherboard. I swapped in an old 40GB hard drive and a CD rom player, loaded xp and loaded the wingman driver in control panel\controllers and presto! I got the OK! adjusted the contacts, set the joystick active in mame advanced settings and then set the controls in the <tab> menu. works perfect! I played one game with the controller sitting loose on the table and it felt smooth as silk, best part of all... the lag effect that was haunting me for so long has been eliminated. The game plays so much better with the inputs coming from the gameport and not a usb device or the keypad keys.  I just need to mount it to the table and find a comfortable chair and I think some good scores will be coming. alrighty, ITs midnight and I've been worin on this all night. Time to hit the sack.
laterz,

Well, I guess that's it. (But I'm still confused about him using the wingman driver). 

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

From my understanding the mode button was for if a gamer accidentally bumped one of the inputs of the SideWinder connected to his PC, it wouldn't screw up what ever he was working on.

Hhmm... I don't recall that as ever being an issue. I left my MS Sidewinder plugged in on my desk for years and not once ever had an issue with "accidently" hitting a button. I had more problems with my cat sleeping inside my PC.

Obviously they saw that it was a useless function and dropped it on subsequent SideWinder releases.

Now that I think about it, the Sidewinder did allow daisy chaining. The mode button might have allowed the Sidewinder to turn into, what is essentially, a glorified extension cord for the Gameport.

Actually, it does that automatically when you plug one into the other. Nothing else has to be done.

Alrighty.

[D_Harris]

Yes, I know mode "turns off" the Sidewinder on your install. What I'm saying is that that isn't the correct behavior. Seriously, doesn't it strike you as moronic to have an "on/off" button on a joypad in such an accessible location?

From my understanding the mode button was for if a gamer accidentally bumped one of the inputs of the SideWinder connected to his PC, it wouldn't screw up what ever he was working on.

Hhmm... I don't recall that as ever being an issue. I left my MS Sidewinder plugged in on my desk for years and not once ever had an issue with "accidently" hitting a button. I had more problems with my cat sleeping inside my PC.

Obviously they saw that it was a useless function and dropped it on subsequent SideWinder releases.

Now that I think about it, the Sidewinder did allow daisy chaining. The mode button might have allowed the Sidewinder to turn into, what is essentially, a glorified extension cord for the Gameport.

Actually, it does that automatically when you plug one into the other. Nothing else has to be done.

Alrighty.

Correction

He got the SideWinder to to be seen by XP. He said Wingman in error.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.