Current U.S.A. CRT Arcade Monitor Availability

[DNA Dan]

Thanks for the great information. What about higher resolutions? Such as this one: http://www.happ.com/monitors/49271700.htm

If I choose to stretch is there a difference in picture quality between say 480p and 800X600 or 1024X768? I have read that this high resolution monitor is limited in what frequencies it can show at 1024X768. But does this matter if I am stretching the image anyway? I do know it's best to just run a monitor at it's native resolution, but will I see a worse picture at this resolution? It's still 30-50hz horizontal so it could theoretically do 15hz interlaced right?

[MonMotha]

That monitor is capable of 30-50kHz horizontal, 47-90Hz vertical.  Yes, it will be limited in what vertical refresh rates you can choose at 1024x768.  The number of lines and the vertical refresh rate determine the horizontal scanrate: vrefresh * totallines = hscanrate (totallines is slightly higher than the number of visible lines, so it's a bit more than 768, here - VESA GTF gives you 806 total lines).  Hence, you can only go up to 50kHz/806 = 62Hz refresh at 1024x768.  You could go all the way down to 47Hz (47Hz*806=37.9kHz), if you like, but it will have very noticeable flicker.

You can run 640x480 at up to 90Hz (525 * 90Hz = 47.25kHz), if you want.  The minimum would be ~60Hz as that bumps up against the 30kHz lower limit.  800x600 would have a minimum refresh of ~48Hz and maxmimum refresh of ~79.5Hz.

You cannot run native 15kHz timings on that monitor as 15kHz is less than 30kHz.  This means you can't do 480i or 240p type modes.  The minimum for that monitor is basically 640x480 @ 60Hz, and the maximum is 1024x768 @ 60Hz, all progressive.  You COULD run native 15kHz timings on the other Makvision monitor that Happ is selling (the analog CGA/EGA/VGA one), but then you give up the ability to do 800x600 or 1024x768 progressive (you can still do it, but you have to interlace it which introduces jitteryness and flicker).


In general, exact 2:1 stretches don't do much to the overall look of the video aside from removing some scanline effects.  In fact, the monitor can't tell where the pixel boundaries are on the horizontal axis at all!  You can do a 2:1 scale horizontally (leaving it the same vertically, so a 640x480 image would become 1280x480), and you shouldn't be able to tell the difference as the active video signals are identical (in most cases - some video cards will output something subtly different).

What's this mean?  This means that, if you want to run old arcade games, which were usually ~240p, on a high res monitor, you should run it at exactly double the resolution with the same refresh as originally.  This will eliminate tearing artifacts and should minimize any evidence of scaling (again, you'll just change the scanlines).  So, if the original game ran at 342x244 (to pick somewhat random numbers), running at 684x288 should give you something that's as close to the original video as your monitor is capable of displaying.  YMMV, and I have no idea how to tell MAME to do that, but I'm guessing it can.


FYI, CRTs don't really have a "native resolution".  Unlike LCDs and plasmas, which have discrete pixels directly mapped to input video pixels, CRTs just have an array of phosphors that you can draw anywhere on.  Some low end CRT HDTVs (which are rare beasts, these days) are only capable of a single resolution and scale everything to that, but these multisync arcade monitors will directly display anything you feed them without any scaling.  They don't even have the hardware necessary to perform scaling.

[NoBullMAME]

Obviously, MonMotha knows way more about the technical aspects than I. That's saying something, as I no slouch. 
However, I think some of you guys are being overly picky. MAMEroom, Dream Arcades, and now even X-gaming use the Hi-res Makvision. When I contacted MR and DA, they both said that the WG and Betson monitors we junk--okay, they were (a little) more diplomatic about it.

I know, you aren't getting original resolutions, but who cares. With stretching the picture looks good, really good. Unless you have a native res monitor running the same game, right next to it, you can't tell the difference. Even then, I'd lay $5 that a lot of us would guess wrong.

I guess what I'm saying, is with these hi-res 30khz monitors running MAME you get 90% of the picture and 10% the hassle.

I know some of the purest will disagree, and that's okay (and I respect it). It just seems like, IMHO, it's not worth the extra effort or stress for that tiny bit of authenticity.

[DNA Dan]

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. This has helped me immensely in my decision. Basically it looks like Makvision is the last producers of arcade CRTs. We basically have two paths with Makvision:

1) The Makvision 15/25/30 analog monitors - Which would please the purists, but have manual adjustment for different games. Good for dedicated cabs, probably not so much for MAME.

2) The Makvision hires monitors - Probably better for Mame, but would require the use of stretching. Would also allow for newer games to be played on it.

X-Arcade is showing their Makvision as 800X600 while suzo/happs has it listed as 1024X768. Is this the same exact monitor? or are they different? If I go this route it sounds like Monmotha's suggestion of "double the resolution but same refresh rate as originally" is the best configuration for this setup.

I inquired about the monitor thorugh x-arcade, but no response from them. I see www.Twistedquarter.com shows them on their website but it's more expensive than happs. I guess shipping costs will be the deciding factor.

Group buy anyone?

[NoBullMAME]

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. This has helped me immensely in my decision. Basically it looks like Makvision is the last producers of arcade CRTs. We basically have two paths with Makvision:

1) The Makvision 15/25/30 analog monitors - Which would please the purists, but have manual adjustment for different games. Good for dedicated cabs, probably not so much for MAME.

2) The Makvision hires monitors - Probably better for Mame, but would require the use of stretching. Would also allow for newer games to be played on it.

X-Arcade is showing their Makvision as 800X600 while suzo/happs has it listed as 1024X768. Is this the same exact monitor? or are they different? If I go this route it sounds like Monmotha's suggestion of "double the resolution but same refresh rate as originally" is the best configuration for this setup.

I inquired about the monitor thorugh x-arcade, but no response from them. I see www.Twistedquarter.com shows them on their website but it's more expensive than happs. I guess shipping costs will be the deciding factor.

Group buy anyone?

Even with a group buy, I doubt you'll get a cheaper price than x-arcade, at least not after you ship them to one person and then ship them out to the group buyers. Plus, the shipping from Happs will probably be more (I think they gouged, I mean charged, me for $109, last time I just shipped one). The $69 that x-arcade charges is a very good deal. I think, I pay more than that when I buy them in bulk.

However, I know there are two versions of that Hi-res monitor; one that maxes out at 800x600 and one that does 1024x768. I'd ask X-arcade if the monitor is the "D4G" or "D5G" version. The "D4G" version only does 800x600, I suspect that's what they are selling.

Have you tried calling? I know they used to have a knowledgeable guy answering the phones over there, not sure now.

Even at 800x600 isn't not a bad deal for the price. If it does do 1024x768, it's a great deal (IMHO).

[Brian B]

I just spoke with John at Betson, 1-800-828-2048 ext. 5.  At first he told me the monitors they had were Billabs and then said he was mistaken and they were MakVision.  Before I was told they were Kortek (which it says on their website).  In any case, they are MakVision.

They have:

1) 24.8" analog Flat tri-sync 15/24/31 for $400.
2) 27" digital flat VGA/SVGA for $495.  This is the same "higher rez" one we have been talking about at Happ.

They don't seem to have the tri-sync in the 27" (though Happ does).

But, John told me that they were getting in a 27" digital multi-sync.  He didn't have the information but would call me tomorrow about it.  He didn't know the manufacturer, price or anything else.

I will post when I know more about it.

What are the games that would require 800x600 or higher resolutions that everyone seems to worry about and what is the price at Xgaming for the monitor?

Thanks,
Brian

[NoBullMAME]

One more thing. I've had trouble with some (pc) games playing in 1024x768@60khz. However, the windows desktop works fine at this same res. I don't have one going now, but if I recall, you can do 1024x768@60 or 61khz and that's it. If I remember, I'll check next time I have one connected.

[NoBullMAME]

2) 27" digital flat VGA/SVGA for $495.  This is the same "higher rez" one we have been talking about at Happ.

Are you sure? It might be the lower res 800x600 version (see my reply above)?

Either way, great information. Sounds like it might be worth waiting to see what they come up with.

Update: I just noticed that Happs has this monitor on sale right now for $465, plus shipping (ends 4/1).

[mgb]

A couple of months ago I put in a 24.8" tri-sync for a customer. He had bought at Betson. If I remember correctly, it was a Makvision and it was analog.

[DNA Dan]

What are the games that would require 800x600 or higher resolutions that everyone seems to worry about and what is the price at Xgaming for the monitor?

29"/27v Makvision 30-40khz 800X600 (Xgaming) = $469 plus shipping
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/weiya-29-flat-screen-crt-arcade-monitor/

29"/27v Makvision 15/24/31khz 640X480 (Happs) = $420 plus shipping (Also available in 24.8")
http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm also can found here for $469
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=325

29"/27v Makvision 30-50khz SVGA/XGA 1024X768 (Happs) = $465 plus shipping
http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271700.htm also can be found here for $509
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=590

Then there's this elusive Kortek model from Betson that shows in-stock, but some have said Betson told them it was unavailable. http://www.betson.com/products/parts/IMP-44-4070-RT for $470. Perhaps Kortek has one last batch to send to Betson before they completely change to LCD? Kortek's website seems fairly "fresh".

I think the reasoning to go for the SVGA Makvision is that it's the same price or lower than some of the other resolutions. The added benefit of the higher resolution would be current console games, PC games, decent television, etc. Just seems to have more uses if it's ever pulled from the cab, and the cost is about the same. UNLESS... there is a technical reason to go with the lower resolution because of the way it displays on these older games. I am not versed enough in the technicals to make this judgement.

[ahofle]

UNLESS... there is a technical reason to go with the lower resolution because of the way it displays on these older games. I am not versed enough in the technicals to make this judgement.

Once you throw 15khz out the window, you might as well go with the highest resolution you can because you are no longer running native resolutions anyway and stretching works better the more pixels you have to work with.  You should be able to run everything in MAME at 800x600 or 1024x768 using Direct3D + bilinear filtering and maybe some filters to add some authenticity. 

[DNA Dan]

Once you throw 15khz out the window, you might as well go with the highest resolution you can because you are no longer running native resolutions anyway and stretching works better the more pixels you have to work with.  You should be able to run everything in MAME at 800x600 or 1024x768 using Direct3D + bilinear filtering and maybe some filters to add some authenticity. 

[/quote]

Yea that's about where I am at. It's just too much work with the current monitor choices to get a 100% reproduction. I think NoBullMAME said it best, it's not worth the hassle for that last bit of authenticity. However for the purist, I am sure no cost or effort is too high to achieve 100% authenticity. I mean that's what makes this hobby so fun. For me however, I can settle for less if the effort gap is so huge.

I can still make use of the soft15k program on the high res makvision correct? 

[MPH]

You cannot run native 15kHz timings on that monitor as 15kHz is less than 30kHz.  This means you can't do 480i or 240p type modes.  The minimum for that monitor is basically 640x480 @ 60Hz, and the maximum is 1024x768 @ 60Hz, all progressive.  You COULD run native 15kHz timings on the other Makvision monitor that Happ is selling (the analog CGA/EGA/VGA one), but then you give up the ability to do 800x600 or 1024x768 progressive (you can still do it, but you have to interlace it which introduces jitteryness and flicker).

I think that summarizes what we are up against (for MAME) atm. Either a monitor which handles the older resolutions well and the newer (higher) not so well, or vice-versa. There does not seem to be a "one size fits all" solution - at least not for an old-school CRT.   

... these multisync arcade monitors will directly display anything you feed them without any scaling.  They don't even have the hardware necessary to perform scaling.

Also noteworthy.

[MPH]

Once you throw 15khz out the window, you might as well go with the highest resolution you can because you are no longer running native resolutions anyway and stretching works better the more pixels you have to work with.  You should be able to run everything in MAME at 800x600 or 1024x768 using Direct3D + bilinear filtering and maybe some filters to add some authenticity. 

Yea that's about where I am at.

I agree with Dan!

BTW, Billabs has some  24.8" analog tri-sync. You need to call them (call their HQ in Georgia, which is where they told me the monitors are.... ask for Eva). The unit price is $365 + shipping. The only other CRT they have is a SVGA 19" (also $350).

[MPH]

UNLESS... there is a technical reason to go with the lower resolution because of the way it displays on these older games. I am not versed enough in the technicals to make this judgement.

Once you throw 15khz out the window, you might as well go with the highest resolution you can because you are no longer running native resolutions anyway and stretching works better the more pixels you have to work with.  You should be able to run everything in MAME at 800x600 or 1024x768 using Direct3D + bilinear filtering and maybe some filters to add some authenticity. 

This kinda makes sense to me, but what happens if you want VGA res on a SVGA/XGA monitor? Does it stretech to 1024x768 from 800x600 or 640x480??  Is this going to look good if the multiples of the resolution cannot be displayed by the monitor (e.g. 2x being x1200 or x960 pixels)?  I'm wondering how a 640x480 or 800x600 could get stretched on a 1024x768 monitor display. Or does the monitor down-grade to the lower display?

I though MonMotha said you could either go up or down with a monitor and its resolution but not both. So, I just realized I am confused about all this. Namely, what happens if I had say the MakVision 27/29" 1024x768 res monitor and wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 resolution? Is that a question for MakVision?  I understand that the lower res monitors would handle this scenario fine, but could not display a newer 1024x768 res game. I am just trying to figure out the opposite. I get the concept of line doubling / stretching / etc., but only if the math is possible. It just seems like in some cases the math does not work out so I don't understand what happens to the picture display in such a scenario.

[Brian B]

This kinda makes sense to me, but what happens if you want VGA res on a SVGA/XGA monitor? Does it stretech to 1024x768 from 800x600 or 640x480??  Is this going to look good if the multiples of the resolution cannot be displayed by the monitor (e.g. 2x being x1200 or x960 pixels)?  I'm wondering how a 640x480 or 800x600 could get stretched on a 1024x768 monitor display. Or does the monitor down-grade to the lower display?

I though MonMotha said you could either go up or down with a monitor and its resolution but not both. So, I just realized I am confused about all this. Namely, what happens if I had say the MakVision 27/29" 1024x768 res monitor and wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 resolution? Is that a question for MakVision?  I understand that the lower res monitors would handle this scenario fine, but could not display a newer 1024x768 res game. I am just trying to figure out the opposite. I get the concept of line doubling / stretching / etc., but only if the math is possible. It just seems like in some cases the math does not work out so I don't understand what happens to the picture display in such a scenario.

I believe that if you use MonMotha's formula the key is not the resolution as much as the specs for vertical refresh and horizontal scan rate.  Since these are CRT the resolutions can change as long as we are within the range of the monitor's capabilities.  My reasoning is if vertical refresh * horizontal lines = horizontal scan rate, then if we have a range of 47-90 Hz vertical refresh and a possible scan rate of 30-50 kHz then...if we use 90 Hz refresh * 480 lines (actual number is higher according to MonMotha as this number is the visible lines 480 + sync lines) we get 43,200.  30kHz<43200<50kHz so we are good.

However, if we try the same thing with a resolution of say 384x240 we have 240*90=21600 which is < 30kHz and therefore not possible with this monitor.

Is this correct MonMotha?

Brian

[MonMotha]

I believe that if you use MonMotha's formula the key is not the resolution as much as the specs for vertical refresh and horizontal scan rate.  Since these are CRT the resolutions can change as long as we are within the range of the monitor's capabilities.  My reasoning is if vertical refresh * horizontal lines = horizontal scan rate, then if we have a range of 47-90 Hz vertical refresh and a possible scan rate of 30-50 kHz then...if we use 90 Hz refresh * 480 lines (actual number is higher according to MonMotha as this number is the visible lines 480 + sync lines) we get 43,200.  30kHz<43200<50kHz so we are good.

However, if we try the same thing with a resolution of say 384x240 we have 240*90=21600 which is < 30kHz and therefore not possible with this monitor.

Is this correct MonMotha?

Brian

You're correct.  If you want to know the "total" lines, you can usually multiply the visible lines by 1.05 to 1.1.  That is, there's usually between 5-10% more "total" lines than visible lines (and you get to pick somewhere within this range if you're doing a truly "custom" mode - the monitor is likely to accept anything in that range).

Again, these monitors don't have to upscale to a "native" resolution like an LCD or Plasma does.  If you want to display 943x692 on the 30-50kHz monitor, you can, and it will display just that - no scaling.  Hence, if you have the 30-50kHz monitor (capable of 1024x768), you can display 800x600 or 640x480 on it without ANY scaling.  You can even go lower, if you turn the refresh rate up e.g. 512x384 "medium res" could be displayed without scaling at 90Hz (~38kHz), but the framerate is wrong and will result in some jitter (every other frame will be duplicated). 

Unfortunately, these monitors can't do 120Hz refresh.  That would open up some neat possibilities.

[MPH]

Ok. Thanks guys. That makes sense.

So, now the question is what is the 'magic number' in terms of refresh? i.e., below what is likely to produce jitter, etc.?  Below 50 hz for example (?)

Based on your comments, it seems to me that if I plug in known resolutions that I want to be able to use, along with knowing the minimum acceptable refresh rate, then I can calculate whether or not a particular monitor is likely going to be a good fit for my purposes.

[MonMotha]

Ideally you want your output refresh rate to exactly match that of what the game you're emulating runs at since they run at a fixed, internally emulated refresh rate.  Anything else will need some sort of special handling and may result in various forms of display jitter or other graphical artifacts (e.g. tearing).  MAME (and most other emulators, too) does have various methods to handle these differences (triple buffering, wait for vsync, etc.), all of which have advantages and disadvantages.

[ahofle]

if I had say the MakVision 27/29" 1024x768 res monitor and wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 resolution?

You would need to run the game (all games) at 1024x768 and hope it supports that resolution + stretching of some sort.  I can't think of a single emulator or game that wouldn't support that.

[MonMotha]

if I had say the MakVision 27/29" 1024x768 res monitor and wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 resolution?

You would need to run the game (all games) at 1024x768 and hope it supports that resolution + stretching of some sort.  I can't think of a single emulator or game that wouldn't support that.

The monitor in question also supports 640x480 and 800x600.  It's a multisync 30-50kHz.  If you wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 you'd just...play the game at that resolution, and the monitor would display it.

[MPH]

if I had say the MakVision 27/29" 1024x768 res monitor and wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 resolution?

You would need to run the game (all games) at 1024x768 and hope it supports that resolution + stretching of some sort.  I can't think of a single emulator or game that wouldn't support that.

The monitor in question also supports 640x480 and 800x600.  It's a multisync 30-50kHz.  If you wanted to play a game in 800x600 or 640x480 you'd just...play the game at that resolution, and the monitor would display it.

Right... so, that is what the MakVision 27/29" Tri-sync (http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm) would do if I understand all this correctly, though with the caveat that because it's not digital that there's likely to be some adjustments that need to be compensated for with software (i.e. the screen vert/horizontal position and sizes will not be remembered by the monitor when you switch resolutions on the monitor itself).

On the other hand, the MakVision (27/29") 1024x768 monitor (http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271700.htm) is not a multi-sync but at that fixed resolution only, so software adjustments for different resolutions will be required. The monitor is always going to physically display at that 1024x768 resolution. {or am I wrong and it IS a multi-sync since the specs indicate a range of H-freq and V-freq???}

One solution (the tri-sync) more closely emulates the real-world experience by virtue of the monitor setting the hardware (physical) specifications of the resolution. The other option (using software) - no matter what the hardware wants to do - allows playing a variety of resolution formats on the same monitor, no matter what the monitor's resolution is. In other words, one solution is fixed by the hardware (monitor) and the other is determined by the computer/emulator (software). It seems to me that a purist would want the hardware option, but from a practical standpoint to most of us who just want to re-capture the essence of the experience, the real key is the emulator software working well with any particular monitor, and I'm sure MAME and other similar emulators will work very well on any of the monitors we've all discussed in this thread.

Have I got that all correct?

[MonMotha]

No.  No.  No.

The analog tri-sync Makvision supports 15kHz, 25kHz, and 31kHz.  These correspond to arcade standard res (aka "CGA"), arcade medium res (aka "EGA", and not the same as the old PC EGA standard), and VGA (aka 480p).

The digital hi-resolution Makvision supports any horizontal scanrate in the range of 30-50kHz.  This means it supports PC VGA (640x480p), PC SVGA (800x600p), PC XGA (1024x768p), and any other resolution you can come up with in those ranges.

BOTH monitors can do VGA (640x480 progressive).  BOTH monitors can support a range of resolutions.  The range is just different.  The low-res analog trisync supports typical arcade resolutions while the hi-res digital multisync supports typical PC resolutions.

[DNA Dan]

I think this is sort of the argument for not buying the higher res monitor. It's essentially an early 2000's PC monitor but it lacks the higher refresh rate up to 120. I meant it's a CRT, so you have that, but in terms of going as low as 25, or 15 it can't do it. So this is why I think most people just decase a PC monitor. The other point however is you can't really find too many PC crt's over 22". So it also has the size factor going for it.

The drawback on the lower res is the manual adjustment of the screen between certain game resolutions.

Pick your poison. Both option kinda suck.

Any word from Betson on the digital multisync?

[MPH]

This is making my head spin. 

Ok, so if I'm calculating this stuff correctly... the SVGA monitor (MakVision) that Happ is selling (http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271700.htm)... its lowest resolution possible would be 333 scan lines (30000 hz Horizontal divided by 90 Hz vertical = 333). So, since that includes the overscan, the end result would be something around 300 visible scan lines (I'm picking a round number here).

However, that is at 90 Hz vertical refresh, and per MonMotha's comments, there's a good chance this will produce undesirable results (e.g. flickering / jittery screen) unless the native refresh of any particular ROM is set around that level.

So, if you know you will want to run any type of game at a resolution lower than 300 visible lines at 90 Hz vertical, then this monitor is not a good choice.

On the other hand, the same monitor will theoretically handle up to 1,064 horizontal scan lines at a refresh rate of 47 Hz, which gives you kind of a similar problem in the opposite direction (i.e. let's say you want to run a high resolution but the vertical refresh will be too low).

Now, to cover the other monitor (http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm) - the Tri-sync, it can handle down to 214 horizontal scan lines at a vertical refresh rate of 70 Hz and a theoretical maximum of 660 lines (31000 Hz / 47 Hz). So, this monitor would not be able to handle some higher resolution games. Plus you still have the issue of using the correct or near-correct vertical refresh compared to what the board or ROM is trying to use.

So, if I'm correct about all that then I see what Dan means by 'picking your poison.'  This kind of reaffirms my view atm that it's MUCH easier to simply pick a high res monitor of any sort and have the emulator software make adjustments to fit everything to a few pre-defined resolutions (though I'm still not clear on if the refresh rates might sabotage some of those efforts... I need to find more time to play around with this stuff and experiment instead trying to understand the theories, but this is very interesting and poignant).

So, back to digital versus analog tri-sync... no word from Betson to me yet. The last info I got from them is they are not making CRT's anymore and have none of their inventory. It appears as if MakVision is the only game in town now for CRT's, regardless of who is selling them.

[Brian B]

Any word from Betson on the digital multisync?

Well...Here's what I was told today:

They have 27" VGA/SVGA (not SXGA) with 30-50kHz and 47-90Hz for $389.
They have 27" Analog Tri-Mode 15/24/31 for $495.

It looks like that is it.

Seems like the best deal at this point is to go with Happ and get either the SXGA Digital for $465 (and it will do anything from VGA resolutions and up or

get a Tri-mode which will handle CGA up to VGA but nothing higher and may require constant adjustment of the controls to get a proper picture (when changing resolutions) for $420.

Brian

[MPH]

The thought just occurred to me.... perhaps it's better to use a higher res monitor and double the resolution of older games. At least if an emulator does that then you should end up with a similar effect - I would think.

[DNA Dan]

That is what MonMotha suggested in Reply #41. Although I think he meant to double both the horizontal and vertical numbers.

[Brian B]

Yes...so the $64,000 question is how do you do this easily (tell the emulator to double in one or both directions)?

B.

[DNA Dan]

This is where I thought we could just use soft15K or switchres with a custom modeline. You can enter in pretty much any numbers you want, and exclude the ones your monitor cannot display.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Custom_display_modes_%28Windows%29_-_Soft-15khz

[MPH]

Yes...so the $64,000 question is how do you do this easily (tell the emulator to double in one or both directions)?

B.

Don't all the emulators do this automagically?

[AndyWarne]

Yes...so the $64,000 question is how do you do this easily (tell the emulator to double in one or both directions)?

B.

Just to mention, the ArcadeVGA card does this very easily, almost all of its inbuilt resolutions are available on a 31Khz monitor. You dont need to configure anything for double the number of lines etc.

[DNA Dan]

Hi Andy,

If I go with the svga/xga monitor do you suggest hookup to ArcadeVGA via the DVI port with adapter or just by using the VGA port? Is there a difference in functionality? Reason I ask is the hires monitor is basically a PC monitor with no case.

Also, will AVGA automatically not show the resolutions that the monitor cannot support? In other words, how fool proof is it that it doesn't send a signal the monitor cannot handle.

[DNA Dan]

Not to hijack the thread, but the more I think about this, the more appealing the LCD model is becoming.

http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49277330.htm

Cons:
Smaller size
Not authentic arcade look
CCFL X 4 (Not an LED backlight)
It's an LCD!!

Pros:
CGA, VGA, SVGA or XGA
Easier to mount in cab
Energy efficient
Cheap compared to hi-res CRT. Only $365 USD vs. $465
Will most likely have similar format replacement available if it breaks

Basically this looks like a quad-sync LCD. I may just have to revise my cab plans to make a slim cabinet. The more I think about the size and depth of the 27" High Res, it just seems like such a monster. I am all for authenticity but a tight cab that sits closer to the wall would have higher WAF.

[patm95]

Is it a correct way of thinking, that I could play a wider range of games with the digital hi-resolution Makvision since I could play the higher resolution games at native resolution and use something like the arcade vga card to play the lower resolution games with a realistic look and feel?

[MPH]

Not to hijack the thread, but the more I think about this, the more appealing the LCD model is becoming.

http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49277330.htm

Yeah, I have to agree with you. I am seriously thinking about this for a cocktail MAME build which is still in the planning stages. Another downside for this plan of mine is I'd most likely opt to use this frame (also on Happ site): http://suzohapp.com/monitors/49277600.htm. Why? The cab plans I'm looking at call for a CRT, and I think it's easier to just use this adapter versus re-engineer the cab design. But point is that it would add another $58 + ship cost to my project cost. So, this is one reason I'm on the fence.

For my new upright, I definitely want a 27-29" screen though, so I'm still mulling the choices discussed in this thread.  Speaking of which, I do agree that SVGA is a beast (of course so is the tri-sync). 103 lbs. either way you go.

I'm also attracted to the new style of uprights that I am seeing more and more of in modern arcades - the pedestal type with LCD either mounted in cab or stand-alone with metal tubes and a LCD TV wall-mount kit to hold it. But that is another future-build concept. I still want at least one real CRT before they are gone for good.

[mgb]

I put a 19" WG LCD (like the makvision from happ) in a customers machine. It did the job, especially for a casual player like my customer.
But man was it easy to mount.

[MPH]

I put a 19" WG LCD (like the makvision from happ) in a customers machine. It did the job, especially for a casual player like my customer.
But man was it easy to mount.

Upright or cocktail cab? Were you replacing a CRT? If so, did you utilize any parts of the CRT or its monitor frame to install the LCD? Basically, how did you mount it in the opening?

[MPH]

Is it a correct way of thinking, that I could play a wider range of games with the digital hi-resolution Makvision since I could play the higher resolution games at native resolution and use something like the arcade vga card to play the lower resolution games with a realistic look and feel?

My understanding is that - regardless of whether or not you are using ArcadeVGA - there is a hardware limitation with every monitor regarding its lowest/highest possible resolution. I believe the point Andy was making is that ArcadeVGA offers a simple solution to output simulated lower resolutions (i.e. modified to fit the monitor's capabilities, such as doubling the output resolution) that does not rely upon tweaking software to accomplish the same thing. Either way you need to do the same thing with that SVGA monitor (scale up very low res) or the tri-sync (scale down very high res). You cannot change the limitations / capabilities of the monitor itself.

[mgb]

I put a 19" WG LCD (like the makvision from happ) in a customers machine. It did the job, especially for a casual player like my customer.
But man was it easy to mount.

Upright or cocktail cab? Were you replacing a CRT? If so, did you utilize any parts of the CRT or its monitor frame to install the LCD? Basically, how did you mount it in the opening?

It was an upright dynamo cab that had a 25" crammed in it. the original install (by someone else) was so shotty that you couldn't see the whole 25" monitor.
I didn't use any parts from the old moniotr. as a matter of fact I din't use the mounting frame from the WG LCD. it had a mounting frame like a crt would but because of how this cabinet was hacked, I had to get rid of it and just mount it flat.

heres the wg lcds http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=1&iSubCat=5