Game Port Question

[D_Harris]

I am using Windows XP and I'm assume that if "Game Port Driver" is no where to be found in device manger then I have to install it before I can do anything else. I do see "Game Port for Creative", but don't know what that is.

I have a few game controllers I want to get working and in particular one of the 1/2 dozen Microsoft SideWinders I have, so I can hack it into a dedicated single game control panel.

I have a few controllers I've picked up over the years:

Microsoft SideWinder Game Pad
Microsoft Dual Strike
Logitech Dual Action Gamepad
Logitech WingMan
Thrustmaster Phazer Pad
InterAct Magnum 6

And after trying all but the last one I've never been able to get a single one of them to work with whatever system I was using at the time.

So I'm dusting off for another attempt I was wondering if anyone can point to a site that covers how to find and install the game port drivers. And then how to find and install the game port controller drivers.

Also, does anyone know if there was ever an adaptor that could be used to use a game port SideWinder in a USB port?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[boardjunkie]

Hi Darren.....remember me? IIRC I repaired a Q-bert sound board for you some years ago.

Heh....anyway, I believe the gameport driver is part of the OEM software that came with the soundcard. It might not be in the bare bones device driver. Maybe get another card that has its original cd with it?

[SavannahLion]

Well... I have several GamePort controllers and I refuse to let them go. Instead they collect dust. That said,off hand I imagine the work and complexity to get such a controller functioning on a modern system outweighs any benefit the controller may give if you elect to hack it up to interface to arcade controls.

In other words. If you choose to get the controller working on a modern system, then the controller itself is the reason to get it working. Using an adapter or hacking the controller or fussing with legacy interface cards and their drivers would be pointless or a waste of time and money in any other situation.

 If you're interested in getting arcade controls to interface, then you're better off hacking a USB based keyboard or controller or buying a pre-made controller from on of the suppliers here.

[D_Harris]

Hi Darren.....remember me? IIRC I repaired a Q-bert sound board for you some years ago.

Heh....anyway, I believe the gameport driver is part of the OEM software that came with the soundcard. It might not be in the bare bones device driver. Maybe get another card that has its original cd with it?

  Actually I don't remember you... Are you sure you have the right Darren?

The only Q*Bert item I had and still have is a complete control panel gathering dust.

Ok, I think I've gotten farther than I have in the past. After "Auto Detect" The pad and all the buttons work in "Microsoft SideWinder Game Pad Properties"(See image).

All except when I press mode, "Game Controller Error" a box pops up. It says, "Your Game Controller is not connected correctly." "Please verify that it is plugged into your computer."

After a half hour of messing with that the light on the controller went off. So I went back to Control Panel > Game Controllers  where I found that the status had changed to "Not Connected".

So I clicked "Add" and highlighted "Microsoft SideWinder (Auto Detect)" again and clicked "OK", only to get a "Gameport Occupied" pop up that said, "The Controller Microsoft SideWinder game pad currently resides on port for Creative. Please remove it or assign the device to another port."

So I removed it, and highlighted "Microsoft SideWinder (Auto Detect)" again, but ths time all that shows up in the "Game Controllers" box is "Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro" "Not Connected"  

So if I can get it back the question would then be how to get it working with WolfMAME 106, which it wouldn't do when the system did recognize it.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

Ok, I just figured out that the "Mode" button turns the game pad on and off. So that was the problem.   

Now I still have to get it to work with MAME.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

Oh you have a gameport? Ok I didn't see that. I still stand by statement above though.

IIRC the sidewinder mode isn't supposed to turn the controller on/off I believe it changes how the pad is utilized eg analog or pseudo digital though I do recall ramapping it to a sort of start button. Can't recall how I did that though. It's been years since I've used it.

Did you check ms support site for sidewinder drivers? I recall the sidewinder software and drivers have a lot of configuration options. Way more than default drivers.

[boardjunkie]

Ok, I guess I don't remember correctly then. It was 10 years ago......

[Jack Burton]

If you take one of those sidewinders apart you will be pleasantly surprised.  They have nice holes in the pcb that are labeled for all the connections.  It's perfect for hacking. 

[D_Harris]

Well, I can't hack it until I'm sure it will work with MAME. It seems to work perfectly in Microsoft SideWinder game pad properties. (See about image).

But what do I have to do to use it with MAME?

And can an adaptor be used with one of these in a USB port?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[DJ_Izumi]

Don't you have to calibrate Gamepad devices EVERY DAMN TIME?

[MonMotha]

The PC game port is an absolute mess.  You should NEVER use it for ANTHING other than MIDI unless you absolutely have to.

The MS Sidewinder is also an oddball.  It has this weird digital mode for all the additional features as the standard PC gameport only supports 2 analog axes and 2 buttons per player (and you get 2 players).  This mode is decidedly non-standard, and it's not compatible with some USB to PC gameport adapters, so check that your adapter (if you want to use one) specifically supports the Sidewinder sticks.  They're otherwise decent controllers; they're just weird.  You should not have to ever calibrate a Sidewinder stick unless it's in analog compatibility mode, and even then I think they're always "spot on" as they apply their own calibration internally.

Some old PC sticks actually have calibration pots on them to center them in hardware.  This was because early PC games didn't have calibration support on their own.

If you actually have a real PC game port and a real game port Sidewinder stick, it should "just work" assuming your PC game port drivers don't suck.  Game ports on PCI sound cards will need a special driver provided by the sound card manufacturer.  The default "game port driver" only supports game ports on ISA (or, by extension, LPC) devices, which you almost certainly don't have unless it's built in to your motherboard.

[D_Harris]

Ok. I'm completely lost.

First, It is not SideWinder sticks that I have. What I have is depicted in the first picture on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SideWinder

Also, it is not a USB to PC gameport adapter I need. I want to be able to plug the SideWinder, which has a game port connector, into a USB port. So I need a game port to USB adaptor.

I don't know what "analog compatibility mode" is all about, but from what I know this is supposed to be plug and play. Windows XP finds it and it works in Game Controllers > "Microsoft SideWinder game pad properties". I just can't get it to work when I fire up MAME.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[MonMotha]

The Sidewinder gamepad is essentially a sidewinder stick without the stick as far as how it talks to the PC.  And when I said "USB to PC gameport adapter" I meant "an adapter device which allows one to plug a PC gameport compatible game controller into a USB host".  What I was saying was that, if you decide to use such an adapter, you should first verify that it will support a Sidewinder device properly as these Sidewinder devices, and all other PC gameport controllers with > 4 buttons or axes, pulled some crazy tricks by using the PC gameport in a decidedly non-standard way, and this won't work with some adapters.

If Windows sees the device and can fully use it but MAME can't, then I well say you've got an issue unrelated to the fact that it's a gameport or similar device.  Once Windows can talk to the device, MAME should have some option to do so via Windows.  If MAME has a "game port" input driver, you probably DON'T want to use it.  Does MAME have a DirectInput method or similar?  That should work with anything Windows can use properly.

[D_Harris]

The Sidewinder gamepad is essentially a sidewinder stick without the stick as far as how it talks to the PC.  And when I said "USB to PC gameport adapter" I meant "an adapter device which allows one to plug a PC gameport compatible game controller into a USB host".  What I was saying was that, if you decide to use such an adapter, you should first verify that it will support a Sidewinder device properly as these Sidewinder devices, and all other PC gameport controllers with > 4 buttons or axes, pulled some crazy tricks by using the PC gameport in a decidedly non-standard way, and this won't work with some adapters.

Ok, since I never mention stick it seemed as though we were not on the same page. I have a SideWinder game pad and obviously no one has tried a game port to USB adaptor or they've not documented it. So going by what you said I assume that these adaptors exist somewhere. And there is no way to know if any particular one would work until it is tried.

If Windows sees the device and can fully use it but MAME can't, then I well say you've got an issue unrelated to the fact that it's a gameport or similar device.  Once Windows can talk to the device, MAME should have some option to do so via Windows.  If MAME has a "game port" input driver, you probably DON'T want to use it.  Does MAME have a DirectInput method or similar?  That should work with anything Windows can use properly.

I don't know what "DirectInput" is, so I couldn't tell you. But my Hydrogen controller works with MAME. I just plug it into the USB port and I don't have to do anything else. If I plug in the SideWinder and fire up MAME the keyboard will still work, but no button on the SideWinder will do anything in the game. So I'm curious as to why you think that the problem is unrelated to the "gameport" device.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

Have you, within Mame and with your gamepad attached to the PC, hit the TAB button, then selected either INPUT GENERAL or INPUT THIS GAME and set it to use your gamepad?  Just because windows sees it, doesn't mean Mame knows what you want to do with it.  You have to assign the gamepad buttons to inputs within Mame.

[D_Harris]

If I select "Input General" or "Input This Game" there is nothing on the subsequent menus that show any reference to the SideWinder game pad.

I spent a half hour looking around and found nothing before the TAB stopped working altogether. I have no idea where to go from here.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

When you're in the TAB menu, you have the chance to tell Mame to use the various inputs on the gamepad instead of the currently selected controls (default or custom controls that you had already set).  So if you want Player 1's button #1 in a particular Mame game to be a particular button on the gamepad, you use the arrow keys on your keyboard to move to that particular line in the menu, then you hit enter on a keyboard.  That tells Mame that you want to change the input for that particular button or joystick.

It's not like within a Windows game where you can select from keyboard, joystick, gamepad etc.  You have to tell Mame to change a particular input for each button, trigger, control pad etc on your gamepad.

[Hoopz]

Reference:  http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/FAQ:Controls

How do I configure the keys?

Press Tab in-game and choose "Input: This Game". Select the input you want to configure, press enter followed by the key you want it mapped to.

More fancy key combinations can be made. To map this key OR that key, set one of the keys as before, wait until mame accepts it, then repeat for second key. To map so two keys have to be pressed at the same time, press both (or more) keys (or press them with a second of each other) after pressing enter. To map a NOT (key1 only if key2 is not also pressed), enter, press first key, then quickly press the second key(s) twice.

"Input: General" can be selected to change all games inputs, and mame's UI buttons.

This remapping will also work for joystick or mouse inputs if joystick or mouse support is enabled (see below).
[edit] Why doesn't the Tab key work anymore?

Most likely you have re-configured the "UI Configure" key, normally Tab, to something else. To restore the default settings, the quickest way is to delete the default.cfg file from the cfg/ subdirectory below the main MAME directory. However this will remove any other general input changes, too.

If you have settings you don't want to lose, you can also edit default.cfg with any text editor, since the input configuration files are in XML format. Open the default.cfg file and find the line that says <port type="UI_CONFIGURE">. Delete that line and all the lines down to and including the next </port> line; this should be five lines. Save the file.

[D_Harris]

When you're in the TAB menu, you have the chance to tell Mame to use the various inputs on the gamepad instead of the currently selected controls (default or custom controls that you had already set).  So if you want Player 1's button #1 in a particular Mame game to be a particular button on the gamepad, you use the arrow keys on your keyboard to move to that particular line in the menu, then you hit enter on a keyboard.  That tells Mame that you want to change the input for that particular button or joystick.

It's not like within a Windows game where you can select from keyboard, joystick, gamepad etc.  You have to tell Mame to change a particular input for each button, trigger, control pad etc on your gamepad.

I know how to configure keys. (Keyboard or arcade controller). That is not my problem.

As far as MAME is concerned my SideWinder game pad does not exist. If MAME does not see the SideWinder game pad it cannot configure the buttons for it.

I know that the SideWinder game pad works, because as I said all ten buttons and eight directions on it work when I'm in "Microsoft SideWinder Game Pad Properties".

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[randjamal]

Darren,

I use a hacked sidewinder identical to yours for my cabinet. I haven't had a problem.

Is joystick set to "1" in your mame.ini file?

P.S. You are right about the "mode" button on this version of the sidewinder. Don't use it as an input.

[D_Harris]

Darren,

I use a hacked sidewinder identical to yours for my cabinet. I haven't had a problem.

Is joystick set to "1" in your mame.ini file?

P.S. You are right about the "mode" button on this version of the sidewinder. Don't use it as an input.

Would this have anything to do with the "mame32ui configuration settings" inside the "ini" folder?

Can you tell me what I am supposed to look for or change?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[randjamal]

I've never used Mame32ui (i use plain old command line mame), but my assumption is that the mame "configuration settings" file is the mame.ini file.

Right click on it and select open with...then select notepad to open the file for editing.

Look for this section

#
# CORE INPUT OPTIONS
#
coin_lockout              1
ctrlr                     
mouse                     0
joystick                  1

Joystick should be "1" not "0". If it's not change it and save the file.

I just installed the latest version of Mame32ui, and it is already set. However, I noticed you're using an older version, so it might not be set in 106.

[D_Harris]

As you can see in the image above it is already a text file.

And in the image below, where is says "Windows UI specific interface options", I change joygui from 0 to 1, but it didn't seem to do anything at all when I started a game of Ms. Pac-man. I could still use the keyboard, but not the game pad.

BTW. Any recommendation for a forum for asking MAME specific questions? (MARP is dead).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[randjamal]

Sorry I wasn't more specific. The mame32ui.ini file only controls configuration of the gui not mame itself (mame32 is just an add-on to mame). You need to edit the mame.ini file located here: C:\Documents and Settings\Admin\Desktop\Mame\MAME 106

[D_Harris]

Sorry I wasn't more specific. The mame32ui.ini file only controls configuration of the gui not mame itself (mame32 is just an add-on to mame). You need to edit the mame.ini file located here: C:\Documents and Settings\Admin\Desktop\Mame\MAME 106

Thanks. That worked.

By changing 0 to 1 I now have joystick input with the keyboard, USB arcade controller, or the SideWinder.

The only thing left is figuring out if there is a game port to USB adaptor that works with the game port SideWinder. (That and figuring out how to get past the "Factory Settings Restored" screen when I attempt to load StarGate).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[randjamal]

Glad I was able to help.

For Stargate: press F2 when you get to the "Factory Settings Restored" screen.

[D_Harris]

Glad I was able to help.

For Stargate: press F2 when you get to the "Factory Settings Restored" screen.

Thanks, but I had done that and it didn't work. 

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

Ok, I pressed F2 about two dozen times and it finally came up. (Advance was not mapped to F2).

Now I just have to figure out how to get all eight control switches to work on the game pad before I start hacking it.

Unfortunately, playing around with mapping the buttons may have screwed up a lot and now I need to get back to default settings and start over.

I did manage to map Advance to F2. But there is no consistency between Microsoft's SideWinder and the keyboard. So It'll be trial and error.

I just need to confirm that all switches are working before I hack the controller.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.