Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: 8 way joystics for 4 way games  (Read 3236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

EightBySix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 523
  • Last login:April 25, 2021, 01:50:16 pm
8 way joystics for 4 way games
« on: February 09, 2011, 09:08:17 am »
No - I'm not asking if it's a good idea - concensus seems to be that Pacman, etc, etc is best played on a 4 way joystick.

My question is "Why?"

I've not tried it myself, but I imagine that the game wont recognise the diagonals, so that when you 'roll' the joystick to go up the ladder in Donkey Kong, it doesn't recognise the diagonal as having an 'up' component. Am I right?

Is it also true, that if you continue to roll the joystic around to an up position, that the game continues to register the sideways motion and not the up - i.e. you have to return to central position before pushing up....



leapinlew

  • Some questionable things going on in this room with cheetos
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7919
  • Last login:July 27, 2025, 11:06:50 am
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 10:08:11 am »
No - I'm not asking if it's a good idea - concensus seems to be that Pacman, etc, etc is best played on a 4 way joystick.

My question is "Why?"

I've not tried it myself, but I imagine that the game wont recognise the diagonals, so that when you 'roll' the joystick to go up the ladder in Donkey Kong, it doesn't recognise the diagonal as having an 'up' component. Am I right?

Is it also true, that if you continue to roll the joystic around to an up position, that the game continues to register the sideways motion and not the up - i.e. you have to return to central position before pushing up....

Deadzones. Each 4 way game handles inputs differently. Take Ms. Pacman for example. My experience with Ms Pacman on a 8 way joystick was very frustrating. If you roll the joystick from the up to right position and along the way send a diagonal input, she would freeze and not accept any direction until the joystick was centered.

I also used an 8 way to play defender. Defender seemed to do fine with different directions being registered. So, each game handles it different.

Someone else may be able to explain why the developers chose to do things this way as I can only speak about my experiences with an 8 way. 

HanoiBoi

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 649
  • Last login:April 13, 2016, 09:52:03 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 12:50:39 pm »
I know you didn't ask, but with a joystick that is switchable from 8way to 4way is a decent option.

I use Mag Stik Plus and have been happy with the results.

EightBySix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 523
  • Last login:April 25, 2021, 01:50:16 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 04:28:20 pm »
I was thinking more of a software solution. Surely the behaviour comes from the encoder, which is replicating what a keyboard would do if more than one key is pressed. If we made an encoder to register keypresses on diagonals differently (i.e two "keys" are being pressed), it might help the situation?

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4135
  • Last login:Yesterday at 11:49:43 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 04:37:21 pm »
The biggest reason Why, is not software or switch related.  Those can be adjusted and dealt with.

 The biggest reason is the Diagonal shaped path of the stick.

 A lot of joysticks have a square outer edge.  If you go from Down to Left, your joystick will slam into the diagonal corner first, then you press up to change its course and direction towards the left side of the box.

 A true 4way will guide your stick directly from Down to Left in a shorter Diagonal line to that direction.  The shorter travel, and not slamming into the unused corners, equates to faster reactions and a smoother feel to the game.

EightBySix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 523
  • Last login:April 25, 2021, 01:50:16 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 05:14:28 pm »
Hmm yes. I guess I should have stated that I appreciate an 8 way wouldnt feel as good. I was just wondering if a software adjustment to an encoder would help at all.

GreatLamer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
  • Last login:July 17, 2025, 04:27:37 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 05:40:28 am »
There's an annoying "effect" if you play 4 way games with 8 way or analogue joysticks. A keyboard is better than these.

Blanka

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
  • Last login:January 25, 2018, 03:19:28 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 06:32:26 am »
I include a smaller, shorter ball top 4 way for the Pac-Man's. Its just 15 bucks extra.
The only 4-way that isn't covered is Q*Bert, but surprisingly that one is handled very well by MAME on a 8-way stick. If you make a good mapping (up-left, not up, not left) etc, then it works perfect for Q*Bert.

robertsig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Last login:April 14, 2025, 12:28:52 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 06:37:29 am »
Or you can buy the Ultimarc 360.

Erik

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 181
  • Last login:August 10, 2013, 09:04:35 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 08:25:58 am »
or buy 4 pushbuttons  :blah:

bkenobi

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1668
  • Last login:August 16, 2021, 10:41:52 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 10:53:25 am »
Or a Pacman cab.   :cheers:

Blanka

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
  • Last login:January 25, 2018, 03:19:28 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 04:12:45 pm »
Or you can buy the Ultimarc 360.

For that price you have an 8-way, a 4-way and a Q*bert way, and they work in all emulators. 360 is nice for Mame, but on other software, it is often useless.

robertsig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Last login:April 14, 2025, 12:28:52 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 05:23:52 pm »
For that price you have an 8-way, a 4-way and a Q*bert way, and they work in all emulators. 360 is nice for Mame, but on other software, it is often useless.
There are other emulators besides MAME? 

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 11:07:23 pm »
The biggest reason Why, is not software or switch related.  Those can be adjusted and dealt with.

 The biggest reason is the Diagonal shaped path of the stick.

 A lot of joysticks have a square outer edge.  If you go from Down to Left, your joystick will slam into the diagonal corner first, then you press up to change its course and direction towards the left side of the box.

 A true 4way will guide your stick directly from Down to Left in a shorter Diagonal line to that direction.  The shorter travel, and not slamming into the unused corners, equates to faster reactions and a smoother feel to the game.


That's basically it.

An 8-way joystick on Ms.Pac-man won't effect a player like me as much as other gamers, considering the number of hours I've put into that it. But it still comes down to left, up, right, and down, without having to deal with an extra change in direction or hiccup when you go from one of the switches to another. A 4-way restrictor allows you to hit each direction more cleanly and consistently.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

CrazyKongFan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 569
  • Last login:June 06, 2017, 01:22:29 pm
Re: 8 way joystics for 4 way games
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2011, 06:26:48 pm »
I also used an 8 way to play defender. Defender seemed to do fine with different directions being registered. So, each game handles it different.

Defender is a bad example though, since it's only 2-way...there's no diagonals to hit, since it doesn't even look for left/right. Hitting up/left or up/right would just register as up.