Just installed XBMC on my iPad

[shmokes]

That link is very interesting. What is the first word used?  Unauthorized.  You may have the right to use the device and modify it as you see fit to the physical device (add stickers etc) but you do not have the right to change the software. 

LMAO.  I'm serious . . . are you fourteen years old?  Add stickers?  That link is talking about adding stickers?  It says:

This article is about adverse issues experienced by customers who have made unauthorized modifications to the iOS (this hacking process is often called "jailbreaking")

I don't think they're talking about stickers.  Also "unauthorized" means "unauthorized by Apple," not by the U.S. Government.  Violating the EULA means your warranty is void, not that you are guilty of criminal copyright violations.

[ark_ader]

I think you are losing the plot.

I think you have also lost credibility.

The resorting to taunts, when I have asked repeatedly for you to come up with a legal representation, that if your client was up against such alligations, you could create a defense.

Then you go on a tangent about driving with your window down or using a wheelchair where vehicles are prohibited.  It is just nonsense.  We are discussing the jailbreak on iPads.  Please do not confuse the issue.

The add stickers refers to modding the physical device, not the software.  I cannot think why you would mod the iPad as it is perfect in its design.  If I had a suggestion to anyone with an iPad is to look into some type of rubber skin, I'm always frightened of dropping my friends iPad. 

What you do not have the right to is to circumvent the protection on the iPad.  Apple has deemed this unauthorized access, and breaks any warranty, not to mention any EULA you have.  The iPad is not a dead platform - like the Xbox1 (poor example), so the obsolete platforms ruling does not help, neither is it a telephone <sigh again> so we cannot say that the iPad is an iPhone.  I didn't see iPod listed anywhere either, so that argument is crud.

Also "unauthorized" means "unauthorized by Apple," not by the U.S. Government.  Violating the EULA means your warranty is void, not that you are guilty of criminal copyright violations.

I think I touched on that before - I am sure you just skim my posts.  I was referring to DMCA as the said ruling that opens up the door for iPhone Jailbreaks, has no wording to include any other IOS devices like the iPad or The AppleTV or the iPod.  People read what they want to believe.  Journalists promote this and sell newspapers or get revenue streams via content. If it doesn't come from a credible source I discount it.  There are so many pages saying the same thing as it is the same article, same wording, everything, repeated.  If you have to circumvent the OS to put said app without Apple's permission then you are in DMCA shark infested waters.

If you are saying that you were given the wrong impression and you made a mistake - that would be better than you trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Your authorizing comment above is not exactly true is it?  Say you wanted to Jailbreak your iPad so you can download an app like XBMC.  XBMC is really cool, and should be available to everyone, but Apple says you cannot have it on their App Store because it has security issues with your carrier's servers (hypothetical).  Something like that happens and your iPad is tracked to you causing an outage - which world of hurt would you be in if caught?  Its the ethical argument I am having with you.  Something you have not heeded or acknowledged.

All these responses by you, and not one with any references to back you up.  Just your opinion of what you think is right.

What I have learned during this tirade is Ethical Practice for lawyers >>> >>link >>

Very interesting reading.

There are links all over the web, on mainstream U.S. hosted websites, to software that is overtly advertised as iPad/iPod jailbreaking software.  How do you suppose this can be?

 

And lawmakers generally don't write airtight laws that account for everything they're meant to on their face, both because lawmakers don't typically have perfect language skills and because they simply can't think of everything.

The lawmakers just write laws that prohibit actions detremental to moral implications.  Something I am trying to impress on you.

THe point about "carriers authorizing it" is about you trying to hook up a phone to a network without paying for it.  In other words, you can't jailbreak a phone for the purpose of using a cell phone carriers network without the cell phone carrier giving you permission.

Obviously we have not read the same paragraph.  Like I said before - we read what we want to see.  The paragraph regarding authorization of the carrier - is for the circumventing of the phone protection (unlocking) to use on another carrier, if the carrier authorizes such behaviour.  I do not believe any iPhone carrier would be in the position to authorize anything without Apples' permission or contract obligations.  Its legal for you to sell the software to do the circumvention.  I know that you can unlock phones, the mechanics escape me.  I used to work for a major Mobile Telecom.  The Telecom had to bind the phone to the network, so getting the phone to work on a provider would be  very easy.  You just replace the Simm.  Plenty of simms that work on locked phones, especially international ones.

Nice to see Apple closing that door with its new Smaller iPhone.

[polaris]

ethical practice for lawyers, thats hilarious in itself.
good luck at the pearly gates shmokes, looks like gods disciple has judged you and youre going down

[shmokes]

I know that you can unlock phones, the mechanics escape me. 

All phones have a keyhole on them.  Unlocking requires putting the correct skeleton key in the keyhole and turning.  God knows you don't have to alter any software to unlock the phone.

p.s. You can't switch carriers by simply changing the sim card.  An AT&T phone will not accept a T-Mobile or Orange sim card unless the phone is unlocked first.

p.p.s.   

[ark_ader]

p.s. You can't switch carriers by simply changing the sim card.  An AT&T phone will not accept a T-Mobile or Orange sim card unless the phone is unlocked first.

I didn't imply that.  Yet I can use an authorized (you don't know what that word means do you?) international sim instead of paying my provider international rates.  If you cannot do that in the US - well you can in the UK.

It appears that we cannot resolve this iPad ethical discussion in the formal way like adults do.  I have tried to provide examples of my argument to you in laymans terms, yet all you do is try to change the subject.

So I will defer to a higher power.  I am sure they will concur with your opinions.

If I am wrong about the jailbreak and the iPad I will apologise. 

If I am correct, then we can look at this hypothetical issue again with the knowledge gained.   

[Donkbaca]

I don't think apple authorizes international sims

[SavannahLion]

I never thought it could happen but I've to re-rank my opinion of xiaou to make room for someone else.

[shmokes]

So I will defer to a higher power.  I am sure they will concur with your opinions.

Not exactly the most objective source on the matter . . .

Whether in the U.S. or U.K. locking and unlocking work the same.  A locked phone won't work with unauthorized sims.  The fact that providers in your country have authorized certain international sims is irrelevant.  In any case, U.S. carriers do not allow you to use "international sims" in their phones.  You either use your regular sim or you unlock your phone.  I strongly recommend the latter.

[javeryh]

Does this allow streaming over 3G or Wifi (outside of the network you are hooked up to)?  I just want to be able to stream my entire iTunes library to my iPhone wherever I am.  Is there anything out there that will work (for free)?

[shmokes]

Does this allow streaming over 3G or Wifi (outside of the network you are hooked up to)?  I just want to be able to stream my entire iTunes library to my iPhone wherever I am.  Is there anything out there that will work (for free)?

My first instinct is no.  If you could set up some persistent VPN on your device, and if XBMC would browse through that . . . maybe.  When I go into add sources and browse the options I have are:

SAP Streams
UPnP Devices
Windows Network (SMB)
Zeroconf Browser

I don't know what SAP Streams or Zeroconf Browser are, so maybe you could look into those.  UPnP won't do you any good.  Windows Network might work over VPN, but I sort of doubt XBMC is set up to work over VPN on an iOS device.

[crashwg]

What a riveting discussion.  Ark you're wrong, Shmokes is right. 

Disclaimer: This is my opinion based solely on the arguments being made in this thread.  I have done no research of my own on the subject.

[knave]

Not only is Ark wrong but he is acting like a jerk. Shmokes, I am amazed at your patience.

[Donkbaca]

So.... is it worth it to install XBMC on it?

[polaris]

So.... is it worth it to install XBMC on it?

in the first post of this thread the first word is 'amazing'  , but we're way past wether its any good and are currently on shmokes' abilities as a lawyer in areas he doesn't practice (i'm guessing) but seems to understand, and his overall ethical status and validity as a lawyer for using jailbreak software which seems to everyone to be fine apart from ark. to bring you up to speed, ark thinks he has shmokes in a moral noose, shmokes thinks the whole argument is ridiculous but keeps coming back because between me and you he just loves arguing, guess its lawyer practice

[SavannahLion]

Ethical noose? That may work with someone like Mother Teresa but a lawyer?

Not saying that lawyers are unethical but IP law isn't necessarily about ethics, its about money. There's a whole lotta wrong and not much right there.

Sorry ark, +1 goes to Shmokes.

[polaris]

Ethical noose? That may work with someone like Mother Teresa but a lawyer?

Not saying that lawyers are unethical but IP law isn't necessarily about ethics, its about money. There's a whole lotta wrong and not much right there.

i refer you to post no 42 your honour

[ChadTower]

Wait . . . jailbreaking is unconstitutional now?  What can I say, con law was a tough class.  I totally missed that part.

Only if the phone is gay.  A gay phone has the right to marry any service provider regardless of physical protocols.

[Blanka]

Does it also work on Android?
I run Android on my iPad as iOS stinks.

BTW Apple is playing ass again, if you have iBooks, you can't view them on jailbroken iThings any longer with the latest update.

[shmokes]

Glad I never jumped on iBooks.  It made no sense with the platform agnostic Kindle on the market.  I've already got a bunch of Kindle books which I've read on my Kindle (sold to get the iPad), Blackberry and PC.  I use the Ipad and Blackberry regularly since my wife and I are frequently reading the same books.  Anyway, it's nice to know that when I dump the iPad for an Android or Windows or Blackberry tablet my library will follow me.


Hey Ark . . . here's something fun.  Sony finally released a public statement about the new(ish) PS3 jailbreak:

"Notice: Unauthorized circumvention devices for the PlayStation 3 system have been recently released by hackers. These devices permit the use of unauthorized or pirated software. Use of such devices or software violates the terms of the 'System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation 3 System' and the 'Terms of Services and User Agreement' for the PlayStation Network/Qriocity and its Community Code of Conduct provisions. Violation of the System Software Licence Agreement for the PlayStation 3 System invalidates the consumer guarantee for that system. In addition, copying or playing pirated software is a violation of International Copyright Laws. Consumers using circumvention devices or running unauthorized or pirated software will have access to the PlayStation Network and access to Qriocity services through PlayStation 3 system terminated permanently.

"To avoid this, consumers must immediately cease use and remove all circumvention devices and delete all unauthorized or pirated software from their PlayStation 3 systems."

Let's see what they're saying here:

- Jailbreaking violates the system software license agreement?  Check
- Jailbreaking violates the terms of services and user agreements?  Check
- Violating the license agreements voids your warranty?  Check
- Jailbreakers will be banned from PSN?  Check
- Copying/playing pirated software is illegal?  Check Check Check  (three checks seeing as they're going out of their way to tell you what is illegal)
- Jailbreaking is illegal?  Hmm . . . maybe they just forgot to include it.  Probably just an oversight.

[shmokes]

So.... is it worth it to install XBMC on it?

If you want to stream media to your device, without question.  It streams flawlessly.  However, the interface is not where it needs to be yet.  There is almost no gesture control implemented.  You can swipe to jump back a level while browsing or double-tap something to get the equivalent of a right-click, but otherwise your finger just acts like a mouse.  It makes scrolling through lists of media difficult as you have to use the scroll bar at the side of the list, which is too small to grab consistently.  Other things are too small as well, particularly a few buttons you use when setting up your sources.

The quirks are substantial, but most of the frustrations involve initial setup, so at least it's not an ongoing thing.  And it's gonna be a matter of weeks before it's skinned with a proper, gesture-driven skin.  You might want to wait for that to happen, especially since I'm sure it's right around the corner.  But if you just want good streaming without having to run a transcoder on another PC, you may as well hit it now.  The streaming is super solid and there's no degradation of quality (though on a screen the size of an iPod/iPad this may not be an issue).  Also, upgrading is a apparently a one-button affair in Cydia, so when a newer, better version comes out you shouldn't have to do a bunch of work all over again.

[ark_ader]

Glad I never jumped on iBooks.  It made no sense with the platform agnostic Kindle on the market.  I've already got a bunch of Kindle books which I've read on my Kindle (sold to get the iPad), Blackberry and PC.  I use the Ipad and Blackberry regularly since my wife and I are frequently reading the same books.  Anyway, it's nice to know that when I dump the iPad for an Android or Windows or Blackberry tablet my library will follow me.


Hey Ark . . . here's something fun.  Sony finally released a public statement about the new(ish) PS3 jailbreak:

"Notice: Unauthorized circumvention devices for the PlayStation 3 system have been recently released by hackers. These devices permit the use of unauthorized or pirated software. Use of such devices or software violates the terms of the 'System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation 3 System' and the 'Terms of Services and User Agreement' for the PlayStation Network/Qriocity and its Community Code of Conduct provisions. Violation of the System Software Licence Agreement for the PlayStation 3 System invalidates the consumer guarantee for that system. In addition, copying or playing pirated software is a violation of International Copyright Laws. Consumers using circumvention devices or running unauthorized or pirated software will have access to the PlayStation Network and access to Qriocity services through PlayStation 3 system terminated permanently.

"To avoid this, consumers must immediately cease use and remove all circumvention devices and delete all unauthorized or pirated software from their PlayStation 3 systems."

Let's see what they're saying here:

- Jailbreaking violates the system software license agreement?  Check
- Jailbreaking violates the terms of services and user agreements?  Check
- Violating the license agreements voids your warranty?  Check
- Jailbreakers will be banned from PSN?  Check
- Copying/playing pirated software is illegal?  Check Check Check  (three checks seeing as they're going out of their way to tell you what is illegal)
- Jailbreaking is illegal?  Hmm . . . maybe they just forgot to include it.  Probably just an oversight.

Here is something more fun, Sony allowed the PS3 to dual boot linux, in order to pass the PS3 as a computer, thus making it a tax dodge .  So if they remove this feature , isn't Sony liable for all that tax money as the PS3 isn't deemed a computer anymore, or never intended to be?  Sony did this already with the PS2.  Funny that this facility is still possible with the Fat PS2s....

I do not know where you got that quote from, but why should a company point out a procedure like jail breaking is illegal, when that fact might not be illegal in the county where the disclaimer declares the act is illegal.  It would be like Microsoft saying that xbox1 mod chips are illegal on a global website accessible in Australia , when it is not illegal in Australia to mod xbox1(s).

I would say that these companies like Apple and Sony do not have to say that circumvention of their copyright devices are illegal, when the country that makes the laws determine if the circumvention is illegal.  Sony or Apple do not have the power to throw you in jail, but the government can if you break the law.  That sounds logical right?  Sony and Apple can sue you for civil damages, which might be worse than facing the slammer.

The DMCA still has teeth in this argument.  It is up to you Shmokes to provide an adequate defense, with references.  Not silly musings that either change the subject (or at least try to) and avoid presenting a factual response.  I do not subscribe to the Ethical Noose suggestion, as Shmokes can change and see the errors of his ways.  I like Ethical Hook better, as we all can get snagged on it.

I yet have to determine if I should wake up a sleeping giant. 

[shmokes]

I yet have to determine if I should wake up a sleeping giant. 

What do you mean, "yet have to determine?"  You didn't say you were just considering it.  What are you waiting for?

Also, LMAO.  The "quote" was from Sony's own US-specific blog.  Nice try, though.  And by nice try, I mean lol wut?

And I suppose you're right.  Sony does not have to say that jailbreaking is illegal in their official statement telling users not to jailbreak.  Though, they didn't have to say that copying/playing pirated software is illegal.  Didn't stop them from saying that:

In addition, copying or playing pirated software is a violation of International Copyright Laws.

 

[ark_ader]

I yet have to determine if I should wake up a sleeping giant. 

What do you mean, "yet have to determine?"  You didn't say you were just considering it.  What are you waiting for?

Also, LMAO.  The "quote" was from Sony's own US-specific blog.  Nice try, though.  And by nice try, I mean lol wut?

And I suppose you're right.  Sony does not have to say that jailbreaking is illegal in their official statement telling users not to jailbreak.  Though, they didn't have to say that copying/playing pirated software is illegal.  Didn't stop them from saying that:

In addition, copying or playing pirated software is a violation of International Copyright Laws.

 

I do see where they deem this circumventing promotes piracy.  Playing backups is not illegal, but the circumvention is deemed to be again via DMCA.

I noticed you fail to enter that debate with the DMCA.  Why is that Shmokes?  Feeling guilty? 

What do you mean, "yet have to determine?"  You didn't say you were just considering it.  What are you waiting for?

Good point, glad to know I have your blessings.  It was my only concern. Thanks. 

[shmokes]

Oh sweet, holy mary mother of god . . . I haven't entered the DMCA debate?  WTF have we been talking about this whole time?  What exactly do you think the Library of Congress exemptions are exemptions to?

[knave]

If Ark has appointed himself "ethics enforcer" and resorts to threats against members he should be banned. We do not need that on this board where we just want to talk about our cool projects and events.

[shmokes]

Aww . . . Ark's harmless.  Helpless, but harmless. 

[ark_ader]

If Ark has appointed himself "ethics enforcer" and resorts to threats against members he should be banned. We do not need that on this board where we just want to talk about our cool projects and events.

You haven't been reading this thread have you?

We are discussing Shmokes and his ethical responsibilities, with regard to iPad jailbreaking.

Have I mentioned anyone else?  No?  Hmmm.  This is a hypothetical discussion.

Maybe you need to get some reading glasses, or a good night's sleep.

Aww . . . Ark's harmless.  Helpless, but harmless. 

   There is nothing wrong with your sense of humour Shmokes.  Perhaps you have devote some of that energy into something that is credible to this argument.  Like how Ipad Jailbreaking is not DMCA actionable under the given circumstances. 
You must have a set of law books you can borrow from the library.

[Donkbaca]

The biggest flaw with your argument ark is that there is the presumption of innocence we have here in this country.  It is you that have the burden of proof to show that jailbreaking an ipod is illegal.  If Apple were to come down on Shmokes for jailbreaking an ipad, they couldn't just file a lawsuit that said, "He jailbroke his ipad, he is violating the DMCA, he has to prove he is not breaking the law."  Quite the contrary, the burden would be on Apple to show that the what he is doing is in violation of the DMCA and the DMCA applies to the matter at hand.  You have failed to do that. Shmokes doesn't have to prove anything is legal, someone has to prove that what he is doing is illegal, and frankly you just have not convinced me, or others that is the case

[shmokes]

You haven't been reading this thread have you?

We are discussing Shmokes and his ethical responsibilities, with regard to iPad jailbreaking.

Have I mentioned anyone else?  No?  Hmmm.  This is a hypothetical discussion.

Maybe you need to get some reading glasses, or a good night's sleep.

He's talking about your veiled threat to turn me in to Apple's legal dept.  Which, of course I welcome and think is utterly hilarious.  Still, it is kind of tasteless.  As much as we argue around here, we're a pretty close-knit community.  Threatening to do something to bring serious real-world consequences to someone is pretty lame.  While the reality of your threat is laughable, the sentiment is pretty ugly.

[ark_ader]

You haven't been reading this thread have you?

We are discussing Shmokes and his ethical responsibilities, with regard to iPad jailbreaking.

Have I mentioned anyone else?  No?  Hmmm.  This is a hypothetical discussion.

Maybe you need to get some reading glasses, or a good night's sleep.

He's talking about your veiled threat to turn me in to Apple's legal dept.  Which, of course I welcome and think is utterly hilarious.  Still, it is kind of tasteless.  As much as we argue around here, we're a pretty close-knit community.  Threatening to do something to bring serious real-world consequences to someone is pretty lame.  While the reality of your threat is laughable, the sentiment is pretty ugly.

I know what he is implying in that comment above Shmokes.  Like Duh!  Again you fail to read anything I post, you just skim it and make yourself look superior, if I make an error. That is lame.

Sounds like you are regretting your actions.  I do not think you should.  If you think I am going to turn you in to the Apple Cops, then you are one mixed up dude.  I just want the answer to my question, which you evaded time and time again, choosing to berate my responses than giving hard facts.  Then you go and quote from some website, which was quoted from another website.  Not very good factual references to your statements are they?

Then you start making that weeping statement above.  Personally I think you have lost the plot.  But do not worry I shall get the answer to my question, without your input.  Then when I get it, you can start denying it all over again.  Nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  You haven't committed a crime, but if you have circumvented the iPad you have an ethics issue.   My guess jailbreakers represent 5% of the Apple user base.  Either it promotes a product or kills it.  But you think I am going to the cops about little old you?....  

You are starting to sound bored and clueless.  Sleepless nights can do that to a person.  Still feeling guilty?  Is your conscious bothering you yet?  Awwww.

[shmokes]

You haven't committed a crime . . .

Wait . . . I jailbroke my iPad.  I thought you said that was against the law.

Also:

Then you go and quote from some website, which was quoted from another website.

What in god's name are you talking about.  Swear to god you write in stream of consciousness.