Using Romlister's advanced command line functions--Help!

[jukingeo]

Hello all,

I been using Romlister for a while now to generate .xml lists for Mala.  Well, lately I have been taking a liking to Hyperspin and will probably use that for my Windows based projects and it is time to make up some new lists.

Now, for a while now I been planning a single player bar-top cabinet.  Single player meaning that the cabinet will be too small to allow 2 player SIMULTANEOUS playing.  However, alternating 2 (or more) player games will be acceptable.  Many older 80's games were designed like this anyway.

So what I would like to do is set Romlister to allow all alternating player games and all single player games to go through to the final list.   The trouble is that there are no options for settings this specific within the Romlister screen.   But I do know it can be done using the command line interface on the bottom.  The question is how?
I tried to play around with the command line myself, but ended up with weird results.

Is there a site that explains the command line more in detail?  (Specifics, not just how to use the AND, OR, and NOT operands...I seen that wiki already).

I was wondering if someone (NOP perhaps?) could shed some light on the proper use of the Romlister command line, starting off with the example above.

Thank You,

Geo

[jukingeo]

Uhhh, does anyone know about the advanced features of Romlister

NOP?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

Geo

[NOP]

ok, you'd need to have a input file with nplayers.ini built into it.  If you do, you should be able to do this:

add to the end of your -find command line:

 & '2P alt'

That would force all games it comes up with to be 2 player alternating.  You'd maybe want to dig into nplayers.ini file to see what all the possibilities are, then just chain them together like:

 & ( '2P alt' | '4P alt' )


BTW: this is better suited to the software forum..

[jukingeo]

ok, you'd need to have a input file with nplayers.ini built into it.  If you do, you should be able to do this:

add to the end of your -find command line:

 & '2P alt'

That would force all games it comes up with to be 2 player alternating.  You'd maybe want to dig into nplayers.ini file to see what all the possibilities are, then just chain them together like:

 & ( '2P alt' | '4P alt' )


BTW: this is better suited to the software forum..

Ok, couple more questions:

1) My dilemma is that if I did a search for 2 (or more) player alternating games as you have presented it above, it would filter out 1 player games since alt would = '0'.  So I would need a search that would preserve all one player games AND filter out all multi-player games that don't offer alternating players.   Is that kind of filtering possible?

2) Do you have a document that lists the proper format or rather the proper syntax for more advanced searches like this?

Thank You,

Geo

[Hoopz]

2) Do you have a document that lists the proper format or rather the proper syntax for more advanced searches like this?

Had you already looked here:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/RL_tutorials

There's a section for Advanced Searching.   

[jukingeo]

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/RL_tutorials

There's a section for Advanced Searching.   

Yes, I did.  But I really didn't find the specifics that I needed.   Even though the topic is on Advanced Searching, it still only covers the basics. 

Normally I don't need this king of level of searching within Romlister.   But you can see the problem I am facing if I don't filter out the multi-player games that have dedicated player controls.  With the bartop cabinet, I really can only set it up with single player games and those multi-player games that offer alternating players.

Thanx,
Geo

[NOP]

ok, you'd need to have a input file with nplayers.ini built into it.  If you do, you should be able to do this:

add to the end of your -find command line:

 & '2P alt'

That would force all games it comes up with to be 2 player alternating.  You'd maybe want to dig into nplayers.ini file to see what all the possibilities are, then just chain them together like:

 & ( '2P alt' | '4P alt' )

Ok, couple more questions:

1) My dilemma is that if I did a search for 2 (or more) player alternating games as you have presented it above, it would filter out 1 player games since alt would = '0'.  So I would need a search that would preserve all one player games AND filter out all multi-player games that don't offer alternating players.   Is that kind of filtering possible?

I think it's still pretty much the same thing as I offered up before.
You want "2p alt" or "1p".  I figured that out by looking at nplayers.ini file.  Single player games are only listed as "1P", so:

 & ( '2P alt' | '1P' )

seems to do the trick.  If this brings in games that don't work in your environment, let me know (give me titles of games that should or should not be in the list) and we will try and find a way of fine tuning the filter even further.  

For this search, we're not using "Alternating="1"" data which comes from controls.dat, we're using the Nplayers data.  If you didn't merge your xml list with that data, you're kind of SOL from searching on it though!

2) Do you have a document that lists the proper format or rather the proper syntax for more advanced searches like this?

I guess I don't see this as being that much more advanced than any of the other searches that are already documented.

[jukingeo]

I think it's still pretty much the same thing as I offered up before.
You want "2p alt" or "1p".  I figured that out by looking at nplayers.ini file.  Single player games are only listed as "1P", so:

 & ( '2P alt' | '1P' )

seems to do the trick.  If this brings in games that don't work in your environment, let me know (give me titles of games that should or should not be in the list) and we will try and find a way of fine tuning the filter even further.

Yeah, that DID seem to do the trick!  I did noticed a few anomalies, but that may not be from this search.   I did see that a couple of 2 player simultaneous games entered my search.

My criteria was 2-4 Way Joystick, 6 Buttons (or less), Spinner, Pedal, and with your adjustment Single Player and Multiplayer-Alternating only.

The 2 player simultaneous games that erroneously showed up are:

Fire Truck
Seawolf II
Space Laser

Since there are so few in this search, I could easily remove the offending titles, but it does spark my curiosity as to why they still show up.

For this search, we're not using "Alternating="1"" data which comes from controls.dat, we're using the Nplayers data.  If you didn't merge your xml list with that data, you're kind of SOL from searching on it though!

That was what I was trying to do initially was using "Alternating = 1", but that didn't work.  But yes, when I did my merge I did locate an Nplayers file for my rom set.

I guess I don't see this as being that much more advanced than any of the other searches that are already documented.

Well, perhaps for you it isn't more advanced (as you probably work with it every day), but for the average "Joe" here it is pretty advanced.   I was thinking if you had a search examples section (in the wiki) that would outline some common command line search syntax that would be a BIG help.  I would think that this example would be one of those common scenarios as if someone only has one set of player controls, it would be prudent to filter out the games that have simultaneous multi-player controls.

It would be kind of embarrassing to host a party and someone selects a game that requires 2 (or more) sets of controls and when player 2 comes up, he/she can't control the game.

Thanx for the help!

Geo

[NOP]

Fire Truck
Seawolf II
Space Laser

Fire truck says 1P for the numplayers data.  I guess, sorta, that it is, kinda. 
Seawolf II is funny.  There are dipswitch settings that say this:
   <dipswitch name="Play Time">
   <dipvalue name="1P 40s/2P 45s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 50s/2P 60s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 60s/2P 75s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 70s/2P 90s" default="yes"/>

So RL saw that "1P 40s/2P" and thought "Yep, 1P, we want that one!"

To avoid this in the future, we have to get RL to look at more data that just "1P".
The nplayer data in search is surrounded by <nplayers>xx</nplayers> so changing the search item to:

& ( '<nplayers>2P alt</nplayers>' | '<nplayers>1P</nplayers>' )

forces RL to examine a bigger text chunk, and thus won't get tripped up by the dipvalue name stuff above.
(and that's even overkill for the amount of text needed to stop the false finds)


Space Laser didn't come up in my search, and I don't know why it came up in yours.  The only explanation is if somehow the xml or other input data has changed.  I think I'm using a slightly crusty MAME 135 xml data with a nplyers.ini that is at least a year old.

You can 2x click on any game in your list and see the XML data beneath it.  All you have to do is visually scan the text there and if you see your search criteria of "1P" or "2P alt" then that's why that title got pulled in.

Well, perhaps for you it isn't more advanced (as you probably work with it every day), but for the average "Joe" here it is pretty advanced.   I was thinking if you had a search examples section (in the wiki) that would outline some common command line search syntax that would be a BIG help.  I would think that this example would be one of those common scenarios as if someone only has one set of player controls, it would be prudent to filter out the games that have simultaneous multi-player controls.

well, errr. ah, it is a wiki ya know.  If you add it, I'll check it for accuracy.
This can be your true test to see if you've learned how it works, by explaining it to others.

It would be kind of embarrassing to host a party and someone selects a game that requires 2 (or more) sets of controls and when player 2 comes up, he/she can't control the game.

yes, this is the exact reason that RL was born.

[Hoopz]

You can 2x click on any game in your list and see the XML data beneath it.  All you have to do is visually scan the text there and if you see your search criteria of "1P" or "2P alt" then that's why that title got pulled in.

I didn't realize you could double click on it and see the data.  That's a great feature.   

[jukingeo]

Fire truck says 1P for the numplayers data.  I guess, sorta, that it is, kinda. 

Well, I will say that I have been around long enough to actually see this game in real life and it is a two player game.

But for those not in the know, here is the KLOV listing:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7814

As you can see it is a rather unique game.  It is pretty cool to play too.  One player could play it, but it is more fun with two.  BUT I wouldn't classify this as an alternating game since two people can play it at the same time.  So there is an error somewhere.[/quote]

Seawolf II is funny.  There are dipswitch settings that say this:
   <dipswitch name="Play Time">
   <dipvalue name="1P 40s/2P 45s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 50s/2P 60s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 60s/2P 75s"/>
   <dipvalue name="1P 70s/2P 90s" default="yes"/>

So RL saw that "1P 40s/2P" and thought "Yep, 1P, we want that one!"

I don't quite get that information.  I initially thought it was a carry over issue from the data of the first Seawolf since that game is a single player game.

To avoid this in the future, we have to get RL to look at more data that just "1P".
The nplayer data in search is surrounded by <nplayers>xx</nplayers> so changing the search item to:

& ( '<nplayers>2P alt</nplayers>' | '<nplayers>1P</nplayers>' )

forces RL to examine a bigger text chunk, and thus won't get tripped up by the dipvalue name stuff above.
(and that's even overkill for the amount of text needed to stop the false finds)

Seems like a complex task, yet interesting.

Space Laser didn't come up in my search, and I don't know why it came up in yours.  The only explanation is if somehow the xml or other input data has changed.  I think I'm using a slightly crusty MAME 135 xml data with a nplyers.ini that is at least a year old.

I am actually using Mame .140 but only for Romlister.  The latest set of roms I have are for .123 but I am physically using Mame .100.    Mame .100's .xml data is littered with errors and is really unusable for Romlister.

You can 2x click on any game in your list and see the XML data beneath it.  All you have to do is visually scan the text there and if you see your search criteria of "1P" or "2P alt" then that's why that title got pulled in.

Really?  That is interesting.  I have to try that out.  Hmmmm, it doesn't work in Linux!  (I run Romlister in Linxu via Wine).  Bummer!  I guess I have to try it someday in Windows.

well, errr. ah, it is a wiki ya know.  If you add it, I'll check it for accuracy.
This can be your true test to see if you've learned how it works, by explaining it to others.

LOL!  Thats a joke right? I probably only know about 10% of what you know.  I wouldn't know where to begin.  If I did, would I be asking for help here?

At any rate, I was referring to other common scenarios for advanced filtering.  Thusfar this scenario was the only one that came up that required a command line search.  I am sure given time I can think of others, but probably I would need your help then again for the proper syntax.

It would be kind of embarrassing to host a party and someone selects a game that requires 2 (or more) sets of controls and when player 2 comes up, he/she can't control the game.

yes, this is the exact reason that RL was born.

And many thanks for creating it.  I started to use Romlister back when Mala was popular.  It was the first front end I used that made use of the .xml data.   Prior to Mala, I used MameWah for the longest time.

At any rate, thank you for your help.  The resultant list from the search above worked out great.  I can just remove those three games manually.  Or should I say two...

Space Laser is listed as a 1 Player game in KLOV.

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9672

So that one is a keeper.

Geo

[NOP]

well, it's not much, but i've at least captured this one in the wiki.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/RL_tutorial_Advanced_SearchingEx

Come up with some more examples and we can work 'em in.

[jukingeo]

well, it's not much, but i've at least captured this one in the wiki.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/RL_tutorial_Advanced_SearchingEx

Come up with some more examples and we can work 'em in.

Beautiful!  Fantastic!  I don't think I could have done better.   I am sure to drop a line here if I do think of other scenarios.  But many are already built into that one example in regards to searching for 1, 2, 3, 4 (etc) player games ONLY or alternating games only.  And that example shows how to combine them.

If I do think of something I will come back here and post it.

Oh! I was wondering if there is information in the controls.xml file for force feedback games.  But I am not sure if Mame even supports force feedback.

Another thing is redemption games.  Is there information that Romlister could pull out of the .xml files for games that dispense tickets.   Doing some early experiments with emulated redemption games in MAME, I found out that MAME DOES support the hookup of a ticket dispenser.  One of the keyboard lights flash in relation to how many tickets are supposed to be dispensed.  This output, could be hooked up to a Deltronics ticket dispenser.   So I can easily see a use for Romlister to filter out all redemption games.

Thusfar those are the only things I can think of off the top.

Have a good day and once again, thanx for your help.

Geo