keywiz help needed - RESOLVED...thanks RandyT

[severdhed]

ok, so i have a 4 player panel on my showcase cabinet...all of the controls are run through a keywiz. it is a typical 4 player setup.

4 joysticks, 6 buttons each for players 1 and 2, 4 buttons each for players 3 and 4, 4 start buttons, 4 coin buttons, and 1 exit button(doubles as pause using a really cool AHK script)
 all of that adds up to 45 switches, 5 more than the keywiz has to offer.  so, i got a few of the shazaam adapters so that you can send a shifted command using only a single button press, i used these on my 4 coin and exit buttons.  in order to avoid alot of weird problems i was having, i reprogrammed the keywiz to eliminate the ctrl,alt,shift and various f-keys.    this seems to be working alot better, however i am still having some stupid problems.  mainly when a regular button gets press while one of the coin buttons are pressed (pretty common occurance in multiplayer games).  while the coin button is held down, it is like the shazaam button is held down, so any other buttons that are pressed send the shifted command instead of the normal one.  this is a problem.  also, apparently if you hold shift and move the p1 joystick, it switches to a different profile and reprograms the damn controller.   so if you are playing a game and dont let off of the stick before inserting a coin, suddenly the encoder gets reprogrammed and now nothing works.

so, i am trying to eliminate these problems.  i have spent some time looking at the advanced wiring techniques on the ggg page. looking at this picture, is it safe to assume that all i need to do here is remove the ground wires from my joystick L and R switches, and run them to the NC tab on a dedicated shazaam button (something i dont have now) and that should prevent the accidental reprogramming?  or would that only prevent reprogramming while that dedicated shazaam button is pressed.  i need it to disable it entirely when any of those shazaam combo buttons are pressed, is there a way to do that?


i also saw the following image, which shows you how to wire up a single switch that actives opposite sides of the joysticks at the same time. so i could have a button that sends the up arrow and the down arrow at the same time, which can't be done with a joystick...then just reprogram mame to this.  this seems like a decent option, i could probably do this with both joysticks, which would be enough for my 4 coin buttons.  that way the only shifted button i would have would be my exit button.  i'm trying to avoid this if i can, simply because i already have a nifty little wire harness running down to my coin buttons that only has 6 wires, in order to properly do this, i'd have to get a new one with 9 wires.  



the other though i had was to try to eliminate the shifted commands all together, except of course for the 5 i am using...but i didn't see a way to set the software to not have shifted commands....i guess i could just make them all the same as the regular commands, with the exception of those 5...does that make sense?

[RandyT]

Chain the ground through each of the coin switches, using the NC and COM terminals, so that when pressed, the rest of the controls beyond it are completely disabled.

You can also gain 4 more inputs by using a single SPDT toggle switch to transfer 2 buttons from P1 and P2 to P3 and P4, as there is no need for more than 4 buttons per player in a 4-player game.

I can explain either of these in greater detail if you are interested.

RandyT

[severdhed]

not sure i follow you here randy...

chain the ground from the 4 coin switches through the NC terminal on a dedicated shazaaam button? i'm not sure i understand. 

i found a 9pin molex wire harness in my box of crap..the more i thought about it...i was thinking that i may be better off eliminating the shazaam functionality all together if possible.  i have 4 joysticks connected, so i could wire coin 1 to j1 up + j1 down, coin 2 to j1 left + j1 right and so on.  that should give me enough for 8 switches, all without the shazaam key coming into play at all.  that way there is no way to accidentally reprogram the encoder or send the wrong keypress.

the only thing that may be an issue is my exit button.  right now it is using a shazaam adapter connected to input P, which has a shifted function of Escape.  i have an autohotkey script that runs that is set if Esc is held down for more than 3 seconds, it sends PgDn, otherwise it sends Esc.  im not sure i can get this to work with 2 keys being pressed.  i'll have to mess around with that.  i guess i could use just that one shazaam combo key if i have to...which wont eliminate the problem, but would at least lower the frequency of it. but from your last post about using the NC terminal, there may be a way to eliminate that problem as well...i just dont understand what you mean.

thanks for your help so far randyt....i know i am using this product in a way that it wasnt really intended for, i appreciate you helping me

[RandyT]

chain the ground from the 4 coin switches through the NC terminal on a dedicated shazaaam button?

No.  Here's a chunk of the "chain";

GROUND to COIN SWITCH 1 COM
COIN SWITCH 1 NC to COIN SWITCH 2 COM
COIN SWITCH 2 NC to COIN SWITCH 3 COM

...and so on for all of your Shazaam! Adapter buttons.  This will interrupt the ground for any switch later in the chain than the switch being pressed.  If you wire the Shazaaam'd switches like above (in series) and then just continue the chain normally (in parallel) to the rest of your controls, pressing any of the Shazaaam'd buttons will disconnect the rest of the ground chain, disabling those controls while it is held down.


The "2-player or 4-Player" toggle works similarly.  You just wire the following input lines together;

P1B5 -> P3B3
P1B6 -> P3B4
P2B5 -> P4B3
P2B6 -> P4B4

You can then use a single SPDT on/on toggle to switch the GROUND line between P1 and P2 buttons 5 and 6, and P3 and P4 buttons 3 and 4.  Switch the switch one way and all six buttons for each of P1 and P2, and buttons 1 and 2 of P3 and P4 are functional, with the upper two buttons of P3 and P4 being disabled.  Switch it the other way, and each player's buttons 1 through 4 are functional, with the upper two buttons of P1 and P2 being disabled.
 

There are also a number of physically unobtainable combos on a joystick;

Up AND Down
Left AND Right
Up AND Down AND Left AND Right
Up AND Left AND Down
Up AND Right AND Down
Left AND Right AND Up
Left AND Right AND Down

This would take a bunch of diodes to pull off, though, and don't try this with the P1 stick.  P2 through P4 are fair game, though.  Keep in mind, however, that if one of these "combo" buttons is pressed while the stick is being used, you could get an unintended combo, so you would have to think through the possibilities.

Or you can skip all the fancy stuff and use a cheap gamepad hack for your admin, coin and start functions 

RandyT

[severdhed]

well, i did some playing around and here is what i came up with.  i wired up my coin buttons to the opposing sides of several of the joystick inputs.  upon some quick play testing...pressing the coin buttons while using those joysticks or other buttons doesn't seem to have any results at all.  i think that will work.

the only problem i have is i dont think a double input button is going to work for my exit/pause button with the ahk script...so i think i am going to try this grounding method you mentioned, but with only one button.  if i understand this correctly, in order for this to work, the exit button would have to be the first switch in the ground chain, correct?  i'd have a single wire from the keywiz ground to the com terminal, then go from the NC terminal to the com terminal on my second switch, and then just continue to jump from com terminal to com terminal on all the remaining switches...correct?  so as soon as i'd press that button to pause the game, it would render all of the other controls inactive as long as it was pressed...correct?

[RandyT]

so i think i am going to try this grounding method you mentioned, but with only one button.  if i understand this correctly, in order for this to work, the exit button would have to be the first switch in the ground chain, correct?  i'd have a single wire from the keywiz ground to the com terminal, then go from the NC terminal to the com terminal on my second switch, and then just continue to jump from com terminal to com terminal on all the remaining switches...correct?  so as soon as i'd press that button to pause the game, it would render all of the other controls inactive as long as it was pressed...correct?

That sounds correct.

[severdhed]

Thanks RandyT...i stopped last night because it was getting late, i will try this method out this evening when i get home from work with the pause/exit button and report back.

[severdhed]

well, i took your advice RandyT... i wired up the exit/pause button as a shazaam combo button and wired the grounds as you suggested....it seems to be doing the trick.  while that button is held down, it disconnects the grounds from all of the other inputs, rendering them inactive.  this should completely , eliminate any random shifted commands or reprogramming. 

my two sons are over there pounding away on the panel as we speak playing Primal Rage, it has been about 10 minutes and so far, everything is still working as it should.

Thank you so much RandyT, it is customer service like this that makes me want to recommend your products to everyone.  THis is why I love this hobby...where else can you buy a product and get support from the person responsible for it's existence.  the keywiz is a great product, and there is a great company backing it up, i couldn't be happier with my purchase.  (i love my optiwiz too)

for anyone out there building a 4 player panel, dont be afraid to use a keywiz.  with just a few extra shazaam adapters, it has more than enough inputs for most 4 player setups.

[RandyT]

You are very welcome, and I am happy to hear that you have the 4 player configuration working to your satisfaction.  Thanks for the kind words!

RandyT