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Author Topic: GGG buttons, switches review  (Read 16973 times)

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SammyWI

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GGG buttons, switches review
« on: November 19, 2010, 04:58:04 pm »
I picked up some GroovyGameGear pushbuttons and switches to compare side by side.  I'm trying to decide what to use in a general MAME cab.  

Background: I started with an Xarcade tankstick thinking it would be 'good enough'.  Then I started reading here and you've all corrupted me. ;)  The tankstick won't do, I need something better.  I started trying out Happ buttons with Cherry microswitches and then moved on to Seimitsu and Sanwa buttons.  I ended up building a laptop CP with Sanwa buttons that I'm pretty happy with (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59359.msg1094548#msg1094548).

So now as I'm planning a full cab, I read about some of RandyT's new buttons and switches that I'm thinking of using.  I ordered two of his Arcade Prime buttons, one Electric Ice 2 - ClassX button and three switches: a standard soft touch microswitch, a premium soft touch microswitch and a micro-leaf switch.  I mounted them in a test CP to try them out along side each other and some Happ/Cherry's I had in the CP already.

Arcade Prime button + standard soft touch microswitch:

A very noticeable difference from the Happ/Cherrys.  Much lighter feel.  Much quieter (though still can hear a click).  The Arcade Prime buttons are described as having a higher switch activation point than the Happs and I'd say that's true.  They have a nice, smooth, quick feel to them.  Honestly, my Happ/cherrys seem stiff, clunky and loud in comparison.

Arcade Prime button + premium soft touch microswitch:

Take the above and make it lighter, quicker and pretty much silent.  This setup feels absolutely great!  Sort of like a Sanwa feel in a Happ shaped package.

Electric Ice 2 - ClassX + micro-leaf switch:

This gets a little more difficult because some of the feel is from the button and some is from the switch.  

Button: The ClassX button has an off-white color that is translucent allowing for LED lighting (more on that later).  The button itself has a more concave top (a deeper 'dished in' effect) than the Happ.  I read somewhere here RandyT saying that this was closer to the buttons used on classic arcade machines.  I have to agree with that.  I was playing a Ms Pac Man / Galaga cab recently and the old leaf switch buttons used had a similar concave shape.  And that concave top feels very good in play - I prefer it over the Happ shape.  Note the Arcade Prime buttons are pretty much exactly the same shape as the Happs.  The color actually looks a lot better than the white Happs.  I was concerned about the look of these when unlit because the white Happs are kind of sterile and unappealing IMO.  But the ClassXs look pretty good when unlit.  Hard to describe but I'd call it a 'warmer' tone than just the plain white.  The button material feels harder than the Arcade Prime buttons and the plunger seems to have a little more play in the housing.  This makes the ClassX button have a little less smooth feel and a bit noisier sound than the Arcade Prime button.  It's not a big difference, but noticeable.

ClassX + Micro-leaf Switch:  The Micro-leaf switch only works in the ClassX buttons.  The feel is very light and quick.  A little noise can be heard but I think it's mostly the button, not the switch.  Close the the feel of the Arcade Prime + Premium Soft Touch Microswitch but not quite as good IMO.

ClassX + premium soft touch microswitch: Very close to the ClassX + Micro-leaf Switch.  Almost a toss up, but I like this combo just a bit better.  But I like the Arcade Prime + premium soft touch microswitch just a bit better yet - it's slightly smother and quieter to me.  These are pretty small differences at this point which makes decision time more difficult.  

ClassX - Electric Ice 2 lighting:

I don't have a lighting controller, so I scrounged up a 5VDC wall wart to check out at least the red, blue and green LED lighting.  And WOW, does it look great.  The translucent material gives the lighting a nice, diffused look.  The button glows but doesn't really 'shine' like a flashlight or something.  It's a bit washed out under strong overhead lighting (like on my workbench with the florescent lights on).  But with a little lower lighting - like an arcade or say 'bar lighting' they look great with nice, deep colors.

So now I'm left with a hard choice for my cab:

Arcade Prime button + premium soft touch microswitch:

+Best feel / sound
+Cheaper price ($2.70)
-Flatter button shape
-No lighting  

ClassX + premium soft touch microswitch:

+Lighting / WOW factor
+Nicer concave button shape
-Not quite as nice feel / sound
-More expensive($6.99 with RGB LED) plus 2 x LED-Wiz lighting controllers (2 x $44.95)

Both options will work great for me, I think.  I guess this is a good problem to have.  ;D


(Edited to correct ClassX price with LED)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 04:35:20 pm by SammyWI »

LeedsFan

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 05:31:09 pm »
Nice review... but at the end of the day button choice, like joystick choice, like alloy wheel choice... is purely personal preference. You have done the right thing though in that you've tried various buttons for yourself.

I personally prefer the Sanwa's but that does not mean that I dislike Happ for example. When I put pinball buttons on an older project I deliberately chose Happs because they gave a bit of feel and feedback. Some people like that on their CP too.

SammyWI

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 08:44:58 am »
I agree, it's very much a preference thing when it comes to button feel.  Hopefully my thoughts above will help someone that's maybe 'on the fence', but there's no reason not to pick up some samples and try them yourself.  I'm just glad that someone is making American style buttons / switches that compare favorably to the Japanese products.

Also, I edited the ClassX price in the OP to include the LED module.  The more I've been thinking about this and looking at stuff like LedBlinky, the more I want the lightable buttons.  So much you can do with them and they really give that WOW factor.

RandyT

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 02:47:32 am »
Nice review, but you didn't get to test one of the most sought after options of the CLASSX buttons.... our custom designed True-Leaf Pro switch.  Before you decide, you might want to give these a try.  They are only compatible with the CLASSX™ pushbuttons.

Also, it's true that the translucent CLASSX style buttons are made of a different, harder material.  They need to be, in order for them to have those excellent lighting properties.  But for that, they are also much more durable than normal nylon buttons.  With any luck, we will have some standard nylon colors in the CLASSX form factor very soon (for folks who want the opaque, more "dead" sounding material and the True-Leaf Pro switch option)

RandyT

wweumina

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 05:04:05 am »
Nice post, I was thinking of putting up something similar soon.  I've got the microleaf, premium soft touch (both with a standard happ and Arcade Prime) and class-x with tru-leaf all on my panel.

The best three games to test were Galaga, Donkey Kong and Track and Field as they are the ones I'm most comfortable on and test a variety of play types.

First let me say for the form factor of the buttons I do prefer the arcade prime or the happs probably because I'm more used to them.  That said, the class-x is perfectly acceptable.

The switches is where it gets really interesting. 

Donkey Kong test results:
Premium soft touch: better than a more clicky switch and works fine.
Micro-leaf: slightly faster reaction than the microswitch but not neccessarily better - sometimes I like to just touch the button without neccessarily jumping.  The micro-leaf will react with the lightest touch.
Class-x with tru-leaf: Very fast/light reaction with the associated issue above.  Also, the form factor of the class-x is probably less comfortable for long sessions but this might just be that I'm used to the happ/prime.
Overall: Preference is probably the soft touch or the micro-leaf.  Not much to choose between them.

Galaga:
Preference is either the micro-leaf or Class-x.  The reaction time to rapid fire is important to blast those ships.

Track and Field:
No comparison here, the class-x is the winner by far.  The micro-leaf is ok, but my speeds are far superior with the light touch on the class-x.  The leaf style opens up new play style possibilities that a micro-switch can't match. Even the micro leaf can't keep up.  My 100m times have dropped by half a second.

So for recommendations, it depends on the games you are playing and how much you need the really fast speeds.  Right now I'm going with the top row of my 6 button layout as micro-leaf with the class-x tru-leaf along the bottom.  That way Donkey Kong is button 1 and when I play track and field I run with the 4 and 6 buttons and jump with the 2 button so I get the fast speeds from the class-x and the reaction time of the micro-leaf on the top.  I don't really notice the difference in shape of the buttons and rarely play 6 button games anyway.  Right now the biggest draw back of the class-x buttons is the white colour so I have a weird white row along the bottom.  As Randy just mentioned, new colours will help alot.



RandyT

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 11:40:45 am »

Here are a couple more tips.  If you want the button to have more resistance (not referring to the bad kind of resistance you get from a stiff microswitch) then take the spring out and give it a little stretch.  Don't go crazy, just stretch it a little at a time until you get a feel for the proper amount that adds the resistance you want.

You can also tweak the actuation point of both the Micro-Leaf and the True-Leaf Pro switches by giving the metal parts a little bend.  Many like that fast, "hair trigger" responsiveness, but if you'd rather have the switch activation happen a little lower, then give the metal arms a little tweak.

That's one of the biggest advantages to this style switch / button...You can tune them to get the feel you want.

RandyT

SammyWI

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 06:56:25 pm »
Nice review, but you didn't get to test one of the most sought after options of the CLASSX buttons.... our custom designed True-Leaf Pro switch.  Before you decide, you might want to give these a try.  They are only compatible with the CLASSX™ pushbuttons.

Also, it's true that the translucent CLASSX style buttons are made of a different, harder material.  They need to be, in order for them to have those excellent lighting properties.  But for that, they are also much more durable than normal nylon buttons.  With any luck, we will have some standard nylon colors in the CLASSX form factor very soon (for folks who want the opaque, more "dead" sounding material and the True-Leaf Pro switch option)

RandyT

Yeah, I should have just grabbed a true-leaf while I was at it.  I'm thinking I'll just bite the bullet and spring for the ClassX buttons - they just look sooo nice when lit.  The slight extra noise is not that big of a deal.  I'll probably pick up a true-leaf to at least try in the primary fire button on the CP.

D_Harris

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 12:28:50 am »
So am I right in saying that it's been long enough to say that the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro™ option is the closest one can get to the response and fell of the original leaf switches without actually using original leaf switches?

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=238:86dc8dcf32bc2f8435fd8a5a8a67a633

I haven't yet heard much about the Rollie Leaf Switch for Pushbutton: http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/36-rollie-leaf-switch-for-pushbutton.html

Darren Harris
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RandyT

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2010, 03:27:40 pm »
So am I right in saying that it's been long enough to say that the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro™ option is the closest one can get to the response and fell of the original leaf switches without actually using original leaf switches?

I am very comfortable making the statement that these are the best substitute for the originals, bar none.

armi0024

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 04:25:39 am »
I won't share my opinion, but I will share this review:
http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/leaf-switch_bracket-04272006-01.html

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 09:22:56 pm »
What we need is a review of "leaf-switch" replacements by the most qualified individuals possible. And on the game play buttons.  I'd just put micro-switches on the player start buttons, because it makes no difference how noisy those are.

Someone like Hector Rodriguez of California would be the best guy to do this, because he has the world record on Track N Field. Any button/switch combination that doesn't pass muster will not get past him.

Master gamers on other games like StarGate and  Asteroids would also have valuable input.

On these games the ability to rapid fire is crucial.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Sanyo 20EZ, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. MVS 4-slot PCB. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

wweumina

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 09:47:04 pm »
What we need is a review of "leaf-switch" replacements by the most qualified individuals possible. And on the game play buttons.  I'd just put micro-switches on the player start buttons, because it makes no difference how noisy those are.

Someone like Hector Rodriguez of California would be the best guy to do this, because he has the world record on Track N Field. Any button/switch combination that doesn't pass muster will not get past him.

Master gamers on other games like StarGate and  Asteroids would also have valuable input.

On these games the ability to rapid fire is crucial.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York

Unless you think you'll be hitting the mechanical limit of the switches I don't think you really need to be talking to Hector. Far more important is the look and feel to an individual. If you want pure speed, buy an electric toothbrush..


wweumina

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 09:53:16 pm »
Update to my post above in regards to track and field times, with a slight change in technique the premium soft touch micro/prime button combo is getting very close to the class-x. I still prefer the tru-leaf but only just. For some reason the micro leaf still aren't quite as fast for me.

D_Harris

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 10:37:10 pm »
What we need is a review of "leaf-switch" replacements by the most qualified individuals possible. And on the game play buttons.  I'd just put micro-switches on the player start buttons, because it makes no difference how noisy those are.

Someone like Hector Rodriguez of California would be the best guy to do this, because he has the world record on Track N Field. Any button/switch combination that doesn't pass muster will not get past him.

Master gamers on other games like StarGate and  Asteroids would also have valuable input.

On these games the ability to rapid fire is crucial.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York

Unless you think you'll be hitting the mechanical limit of the switches I don't think you really need to be talking to Hector. Far more important is the look and feel to an individual. If you want pure speed, buy an electric toothbrush..

I'm not talking about cheating. I'm talking about getting the best feel and response, and it is the consensus among classic world class gamers that original leaf-switches hold the title in this respect.

So this is about which switch button combination comes the closest and Hector is as qualified as you can get on this subject. If he ever said switch "X" is a just as good as original leaf-switches for Track N Field, then that would be good enough for me.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Sanyo 20EZ, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. MVS 4-slot PCB. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2010, 02:21:09 am »
I won't share my opinion, but I will share this review:
http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/leaf-switch_bracket-04272006-01.html

There was nothing to compare them to at the time, other than the originals.  And that never happened.  But there is something now, that has a much smaller footprint and is designed to be used with lighting, without modification.  I'll be very interested to hear how users think the feel compares ;).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 02:46:57 am by RandyT »

wweumina

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2010, 05:34:32 am »

I'm not talking about cheating. I'm talking about getting the best feel and response, and it is the consensus among classic world class gamers that original leaf-switches hold the title in this respect.

So this is about which switch button combination comes the closest and Hector is as qualified as you can get on this subject. If he ever said switch "X" is a just as good as original leaf-switches for Track N Field, then that would be good enough for me.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I'm not saying you are going to use an electric toothbrush, just that the toothbrush would give as objective an opinion as anyone else.  It all depends on how you hit the buttons, whether you are a light tapper or a hard presser.  I'm sure Mr Rodriguez has the buttons set up to be perfect for him and his 8 finger technique.  The thing about leaf switches is that they can be adjusted so much and will alter over time so no two experiences will be exactly alike. 

From what I remember the original Track and Field buttons were a bit more rounded than most other common leaf switches of the time, so if that game is your benchmark the Class-X won't be as faithful to the original machine. It will be a lot closer than any switch based product however.  The other issue is that you seem to think there are a lot of options out there.  The Class-x is probably your only mainstream chance of getting hold of something very close to an original leaf.  I don't know what the availability of the Rollie's is on the ground but if you can find one, try it out and compare.  Buy a couple and send them to Hector if you really want to.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2010, 11:20:36 am »
From what I remember the original Track and Field buttons were a bit more rounded than most other common leaf switches of the time, so if that game is your benchmark the Class-X won't be as faithful to the original machine.

Not true.  Check out the photo....standard "deeper than IL or HAPP" leaf buttons.  However, the CLASSX button plungers are not quite as deep, nor quite as tall as the originals.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 11:45:48 am by RandyT »

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2010, 07:44:04 pm »

I'm not talking about cheating. I'm talking about getting the best feel and response, and it is the consensus among classic world class gamers that original leaf-switches hold the title in this respect.

So this is about which switch button combination comes the closest and Hector is as qualified as you can get on this subject. If he ever said switch "X" is a just as good as original leaf-switches for Track N Field, then that would be good enough for me.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I'm not saying you are going to use an electric toothbrush, just that the toothbrush would give as objective an opinion as anyone else.  It all depends on how you hit the buttons, whether you are a light tapper or a hard presser.  I'm sure Mr Rodriguez has the buttons set up to be perfect for him and his 8 finger technique.  The thing about leaf switches is that they can be adjusted so much and will alter over time so no two experiences will be exactly alike. 

From what I remember the original Track and Field buttons were a bit more rounded than most other common leaf switches of the time, so if that game is your benchmark the Class-X won't be as faithful to the original machine. It will be a lot closer than any switch based product however.  The other issue is that you seem to think there are a lot of options out there.  The Class-x is probably your only mainstream chance of getting hold of something very close to an original leaf.  I don't know what the availability of the Rollie's is on the ground but if you can find one, try it out and compare.  Buy a couple and send them to Hector if you really want to.

Well, this is not about electric toothbrushes(which don't give opinions),  or "light tapper" vs. hard presser",  or how Mr. Rodriguez has his buttons set up, how leaf-switches alter over time, or how leaf-switches can be adjusted.

The Track & Field buttons were no different than other common button/leaf-switches at the time.

This is not about Class-x being as faithful to the original machine. And I never there said there were a lot of options out there.

Now to get back on track. This is about getting a great classic gamer's assessment on what button/switch combo comes the closest to the feel of the original buttons. And Track & Field is an excellent game for determining this. I for one would be interested in seeing if such a gamer can get close to his performance with a non-original button/switch set up.

If you don't care about this, then fine.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Sanyo 20EZ, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. MVS 4-slot PCB. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2010, 07:45:25 pm »
From what I remember the original Track and Field buttons were a bit more rounded than most other common leaf switches of the time, so if that game is your benchmark the Class-X won't be as faithful to the original machine.

Not true.  Check out the photo....standard "deeper than IL or HAPP" leaf buttons.  However, the CLASSX button plungers are not quite as deep, nor quite as tall as the originals.

That may result in a gaming advantage over the original button/switches. :)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 09:11:31 pm by D_Harris »
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Sanyo 20EZ, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. MVS 4-slot PCB. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2010, 08:59:53 am »
...

Now to get back on track. This is about getting a great classic gamer's assessment on what button/switch combo comes the closest to the feel of the original buttons. And Track & Field is an excellent game for determining this. I for one would be interested in seeing if such a gamer can get close to his performance with a non-original button/switch set up.

If you don't care about this, then fine.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually, this thread was about my impressions of the GGG buttons that I have tried.  And I'm interested in what other people that have tried them think as well.

If you have some wish for a particular gamer to test things on one particular game, that's fine.  But it's a pretty narrow, specialized interest and it's really a tangent in this thread.

D_Harris

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2010, 08:30:58 pm »
...

Now to get back on track. This is about getting a great classic gamer's assessment on what button/switch combo comes the closest to the feel of the original buttons. And Track & Field is an excellent game for determining this. I for one would be interested in seeing if such a gamer can get close to his performance with a non-original button/switch set up.

If you don't care about this, then fine.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually, this thread was about my impressions of the GGG buttons that I have tried.  And I'm interested in what other people that have tried them think as well.

If you have some wish for a particular gamer to test things on one particular game, that's fine.  But it's a pretty narrow, specialized interest and it's really a tangent in this thread.

It's not a tangent or any more of a special interest than any thing else mentioned. You posted your own review, which of course was highly subjective.

All gamers aren't looking for the same thing you are in a button. Nevertheless, original arcade feel is one other quality a button may have.

And since I was leaning toward the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro™ which you mentioned first, I said it would be great if someone looking for the same qualities in a button/switch as I am were to be a tester.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2010, 09:22:49 pm »
...

Now to get back on track. This is about getting a great classic gamer's assessment on what button/switch combo comes the closest to the feel of the original buttons. And Track & Field is an excellent game for determining this. I for one would be interested in seeing if such a gamer can get close to his performance with a non-original button/switch set up.

If you don't care about this, then fine.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually, this thread was about my impressions of the GGG buttons that I have tried.  And I'm interested in what other people that have tried them think as well.

If you have some wish for a particular gamer to test things on one particular game, that's fine.  But it's a pretty narrow, specialized interest and it's really a tangent in this thread.

It's not a tangent or any more of a special interest than any thing else mentioned. You posted your own review, which of course was highly subjective.

All gamers aren't looking for the same thing you are in a button. Nevertheless, original arcade feel is one other quality a button may have.

And since I was leaning toward the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro™ which you mentioned first, I said it would be great if someone looking for the same qualities in a button/switch as I am were to be a tester.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I started this thread as my review of buttons and switches that I have actually used.  Of course it's highly subjective - I've never said that it was not and that's why I tried to be specific about what I like/dislike about them rather that a generic 'this is the best'.

And yes, I know that I mentioned the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro first.  I did start the thread and all.   :dunno  I really have no idea what you're getting at there.

Your first post in the thread was an honest and relevant question.  RandyT answered with his thoughts.  I've not tried the True-Leafs yet, so I didn't respond - I really don't know. 

Your point that getting reviews from great classic gamers would be something that you're interested in is fine.  I'd have some interest myself.  (But I'm more interested in just plain good reviews.)

But you've spent four posts now going on about how you want 'great classic gamers' to review these and other button/switches.  That's fine.  But it's not really the point of this thread.  You could buy a couple of these and try them for yourself.  They're not very expensive for a couple to test. 

If testing by 'great classic gamers' is that important to you, then start a thread about it.  Maybe you'll get more interest in it.  Maybe enough people will agree with you that it will get the ball rolling between the manufacturers and the 'great classic gamers'.  Or maybe you could start contacting people and set up this testing yourself. 

But what ever you do, I'm asking you to please stop crapping in this thread.

Thanks.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2010, 09:57:51 pm »
...

Now to get back on track. This is about getting a great classic gamer's assessment on what button/switch combo comes the closest to the feel of the original buttons. And Track & Field is an excellent game for determining this. I for one would be interested in seeing if such a gamer can get close to his performance with a non-original button/switch set up.

If you don't care about this, then fine.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually, this thread was about my impressions of the GGG buttons that I have tried.  And I'm interested in what other people that have tried them think as well.

If you have some wish for a particular gamer to test things on one particular game, that's fine.  But it's a pretty narrow, specialized interest and it's really a tangent in this thread.

It's not a tangent or any more of a special interest than any thing else mentioned. You posted your own review, which of course was highly subjective.

All gamers aren't looking for the same thing you are in a button. Nevertheless, original arcade feel is one other quality a button may have.

And since I was leaning toward the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro™ which you mentioned first, I said it would be great if someone looking for the same qualities in a button/switch as I am were to be a tester.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I started this thread as my review of buttons and switches that I have actually used.  Of course it's highly subjective - I've never said that it was not and that's why I tried to be specific about what I like/dislike about them rather that a generic 'this is the best'.

And yes, I know that I mentioned the CLASSX™/True-Leaf Pro first.  I did start the thread and all.   :dunno  I really have no idea what you're getting at there.

Your first post in the thread was an honest and relevant question.  RandyT answered with his thoughts.  I've not tried the True-Leafs yet, so I didn't respond - I really don't know.  

Your point that getting reviews from great classic gamers would be something that you're interested in is fine.  I'd have some interest myself.  (But I'm more interested in just plain good reviews.)

But you've spent four posts now going on about how you want 'great classic gamers' to review these and other button/switches.  That's fine.  But it's not really the point of this thread.  You could buy a couple of these and try them for yourself.  They're not very expensive for a couple to test.  

If testing by 'great classic gamers' is that important to you, then start a thread about it.  Maybe you'll get more interest in it.  Maybe enough people will agree with you that it will get the ball rolling between the manufacturers and the 'great classic gamers'.  Or maybe you could start contacting people and set up this testing yourself.  

But what ever you do, I'm asking you to please stop crapping in this thread.

Thanks.

No, you're crapping in the thread you started.

I made a statement about master gamers doing reviews and you decide to throw a fit?

There are a lot of things said in this thread that were not said by you. Things that didn't seem to get you upset.

You didn't get upset when LeedsFan said "button choice was purely personal preference".

You didn't get upset when your buddy wweumina said that "the best three games to test were Galaga, Donkey Kong and Track and Field Field" or said that a "toothbrush would give as objective an opinion as anyone else".

But you got upset and decided to rant in two posts(so far) because I mentioned using a master gamer as a tester?

So obviously since what I said is no further "off topic" than what any one else said, this is obviously a personal problem that you need to deal with.

This garbage should not have gone past post #18

Darren Harris
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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2010, 11:19:09 pm »


This garbage should not have gone past post #18

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

And yet half the posts since then are yours and you've just re-quoted them all.

The idea of having great classic gamers review buttons is an interesting one, their opinion would be just as relevant as everyone else who has reviewed them.  Might be worth its own thread...?

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2010, 11:34:57 pm »


This garbage should not have gone past post #18

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

And yet half the posts since then are yours and you've just re-quoted them all.
What's your point?
Quote
The idea of having great classic gamers review buttons is an interesting one, their opinion would be just as relevant as everyone else who has reviewed them.  Might be worth its own thread...?

Why a whole thread? It's simple and you just said it. (Now should I badger you for saying it?).

Darren Harris
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My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Sanyo 20EZ, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. MVS 4-slot PCB. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2010, 09:18:33 am »
What we need is a review of "leaf-switch" replacements by the most qualified individuals possible. And on the game play buttons.  I'd just put micro-switches on the player start buttons, because it makes no difference how noisy those are.

Someone like Hector Rodriguez of California would be the best guy to do this, because he has the world record on Track N Field. Any button/switch combination that doesn't pass muster will not get past him.

Master gamers on other games like StarGate and  Asteroids would also have valuable input.

On these games the ability to rapid fire is crucial.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York

Well, we can argue just for argument's sake or we can discuss arcade controls.  I'd like to discuss arcade controls.  So:

I'd be interested in what some competitive gamers think of GGG's buttons along with the others out there vs original leafs.  But I wouldn't take their opinion as the most important one to me.  Duplication of original feel is one factor but it's not the only factor.  It may be the single most important, overriding thing to others, but not to me.  There is a lot of personal preference in this.  A competitive gamer may have very different preferences than a particular BYOACer. 

I hope that my review helps some people that may never have thought to try anything past maybe an Xarcade or some Happs.  There are better quality parts out there that are worth the expense and effort (IMHO). 

In the end, the only opinion that counts is your own.  I'd encourage people to try them yourselves, or you'll never really know for sure. 

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2010, 02:07:40 am »
Sooo....we've been shipping a lot of True-Leaf Pro's lately.  I'm anxious to hear what folks think of them.  Anyone? :)

RandyT

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 06:44:00 pm »
Actually, I just placed an order for EI buttons, LEDs, and a couple of LED-WIZs.  I did also order a couple of true-leafs to try out.  If I like them, I'll place them as the primary fire buttons on a two player CP.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 01:54:32 am »
Sooo....we've been shipping a lot of True-Leaf Pro's lately.  I'm anxious to hear what folks think of them.  Anyone? :)

RandyT
Are they easily identifiable from the standard Tru-leaf? I received my last buttons about the time you announced the Pro. The new ones seem a bit better, but that might be tuning.

I'll be waiting for the solid colours before ordering more.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 02:20:22 am »
Are they easily identifiable from the standard Tru-leaf? I received my last buttons about the time you announced the Pro. The new ones seem a bit better, but that might be tuning.

I'll be waiting for the solid colours before ordering more.

The Pro's have gold-plated contacts and have a layered body.  They are like night and day with the economy versions.

I'm hoping to get some boxes full of solid buttons any day now.

RandyT

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2010, 07:21:04 pm »
Are they easily identifiable from the standard Tru-leaf? I received my last buttons about the time you announced the Pro. The new ones seem a bit better, but that might be tuning.

I'll be waiting for the solid colours before ordering more.

The Pro's have gold-plated contacts and have a layered body.  They are like night and day with the economy versions.

I'm hoping to get some boxes full of solid buttons any day now.

RandyT

Ok, so I'm attempting to adjust my shopping cart.

The "True-Leaf Pro" switches cannot be used with anything other than the "Electric ICE 2™ Lightable Horizontal Pushbutton", correct?  :-\

Darren Harris
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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2010, 07:25:38 pm »
The "True-Leaf Pro" switches cannot be used with anything other than the "Electric ICE 2™ Lightable Horizontal Pushbutton", correct?  :-\

At the moment.  Standard nylon colors are in, just not on the store yet.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2010, 08:47:25 pm »
The "True-Leaf Pro" switches cannot be used with anything other than the "Electric ICE 2™ Lightable Horizontal Pushbutton", correct?  :-\

At the moment.  Standard nylon colors are in, just not on the store yet.


Is there an eta on when the option of using the pros with non lighted buttons?(I'd like to make a CP and send it to Hector to test).  ;D

Anyway I guess I'll have to hold off.

(BTW. Let me know when you get in pink joysticks and buttons).  ;D

Darren Harris
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Re: GGG buttons, switches mini review
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2011, 04:34:29 pm »
Well, I finally got a chance to test the True Leaf pros in test CP.  I got my package of EI buttons and LED-Wiz controllers before Xmas but the holidays have been hectic.  

The True Leafs definitely have a different feel to them vs the microswitches.  It's more of a solid feel, like the button and switch are one piece vs a plunger hitting a separate switch.  Hard to describe exactly, but they do feel more like the leaf buttons of a real arcade machine.  I don't have a real arcade cab in the house to test side by side, but I did stop by the local arcade a couple of days ago - just to get a feel of the buttons. ;D  

I tested using several shooting games (Galaga, Asteroids, 1942).  The True Leaf comes 'out of the box' with a very high actuation point.  It's a little different than what I'm used to so I had to adjust to it a little - after that they worked great.  Quick, smooth cycling, fairly quiet but a little noisier than the quietest Arcade Prime's.  The noise is mostly from the different button materials, IMO.  I didn't do any adjustments to the leafs, but I may play with that after I get the CP built.

Overall:  The True Leafs are a very high quality option.  Very close to the arcade cab feel, but not exact (at least with the EI buttons).  I'll definitely be using them as the primary fire buttons in my cab.

ETA: I removed the 'mini' from the title.  (Not really a mini review anymore.)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 04:37:44 pm by SammyWI »

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 09:32:47 am »
Hate to bump an old thread.....

Do these tru-leaf switches exist anymore? If not is there something comparable?

I am building a defender control panel and am looking for a switch/button that will feel close to the original. The standard microswitches aren't cutting it for me.

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GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2013, 10:41:13 am »
Yes the True-Leaf Pro still exist. I just received an order from Randy with them. They also now work with all of the ClassX buttons if you are looking for a specific color. I got the black ClassX buttons with True-Leafs for a cocktail cabinet I am doing.


Sent from my iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 12:58:24 pm by cmoses »


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GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2013, 12:59:09 pm »
Sorry it's Randy at Groovy Game Gear. He runs that site.


Sent from my iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2013, 01:04:28 pm »
Hmmmmm... I emailed Randy twice yesterday and I didnt get a reply.

The only switches on his website are these:

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=92

Groovy Standard Soft-Touch™ / SST™ Microswitch

Versa-Micro™ User-Adjustable Arcade Switches

Micro-Leaf™ Arcade Pushbutton Switches

Searching "true-leaf pro" comes up empty on his site as well

On all the pushbuttons, the hyperlink to true-leaf pro switches are inactive:

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=398
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 01:09:06 pm by fmzip »

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2013, 01:57:35 pm »
Hmmmmm... I emailed Randy twice yesterday and I didnt get a reply.

Sorry about not getting back to you yesterday.  It's been a rough month (tax time. high order volume, etc.) and yesterday, the GroovyGameGear 100 gallon hot water heater decided to walk off the blocks it was standing on, cracking the main water line,  thanks to an improper installation by the previous owner of the property.  So the plumber's hat had to be worn for a good part of yesterday.  :banghead:

Quote
On all the pushbuttons, the hyperlink to true-leaf pro switches are inactive:

We only put hyperlinks in the description where the item is offered separately.  That's just underlined text, as they are not sold as a separate item.  As cmoses stated, they are available for purchase with the CLASSX style buttons, which includes the standard nylon colors, as well as the Electric ICE 2, and the upcoming NovaGem 2.

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 02:22:45 pm »
Now I get it.....


I thought that the add on price was for just the piece that holds each specific switch and the switches THEN needed to be ordered separately!


Thanks for the replies :) will be placing my order soon!


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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2013, 11:04:51 pm »
Can I use the SST switches on a happ super or competition?

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2013, 11:13:20 pm »
OK, after a year, I'm starting to have some issues with my GGG EI2 buttons...basically, during some hard play, one or two of them have the switch adapter swing out of place and not enable the button to make contact.  I just tilt up the CP and re-engage the switch adapter and it's fine.  It's not happening on all buttons...just 2 out of the 16 that I have.

I also have a stuck button every once in a while.  I don't think this is a GGG issue, but rather an errant Vodka/Tonic that got spilt down the CP about a year ago.

Otherwise, I've been very happy with the EI2s and the lighting modules.  I do, however, wish that the EI2s had the same tactile feel as the CLASSX buttons.

YMMV. 

AJ

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Re: GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2013, 12:57:21 am »
OK, after a year, I'm starting to have some issues with my GGG EI2 buttons...basically, during some hard play, one or two of them have the switch adapter swing out of place and not enable the button to make contact.  I just tilt up the CP and re-engage the switch adapter and it's fine.  It's not happening on all buttons...just 2 out of the 16 that I have.

Hmm...I'm not sure how this could be happening, based on the design.  The fit is normally quite tight.

Which switches?  Have you removed and replaced the switch holder many times?  If so, the locking knubs may be getting worn.


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GGG buttons, switches review
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2013, 01:04:43 am »
My ei2s have been great for a few years now.

Just a little idea,
I hate to have play between my button and switch so I use a little dab of hot glue. That would also hold the switch holder in place in your situation I would think.