Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns --- Bug Reports --- Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: AAE Source Code  (Read 3768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

aae

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • Last login:November 25, 2011, 04:17:25 pm
AAE Source Code
« on: October 02, 2010, 03:18:23 pm »
Well, due to various things, I will not be able to continue this in the foreseeable future. I have the last revision of the old source code, (partially non working) and the new source I have been working on, and I want to release them in the hopes that someone could find it useful.

However, since I am locked out of my old site and I do not have a sharing account anywhere, can someone give me about 150GB of space somewhere to upload the source? That includes artwork and sound files, all source code as well as my last revision of the new demo code.

Thanks!
Tim

aae

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • Last login:November 25, 2011, 04:17:25 pm
Link
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 07:38:07 pm »

brian_hoffman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
  • Last login:July 02, 2011, 09:02:20 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 08:52:59 pm »
Tim,
 Thank you so much for what you have givin to the community. I for one like your emulator very much. I gives the "pop" that these games have in the arcade.

I do understand real life does get in the way and I wish you the best in your future. I am not a programmer but I grabbed your files in case I ever feel creative.

Thanks for being a stand up guy, and not letting your achievements go to the wayside.

-Brian

newmanfamilyvlogs

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1611
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:58:16 am
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,103584.msg1096585.html#msg1096585
    • Newman Family Vlogs
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 09:51:04 pm »
If you still need that much space, message me.

mcfreak

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 282
  • Last login:December 10, 2016, 10:37:40 am
  • Asteroids moving along...
    • Hobby Blog
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 12:32:23 am »
Hopefully someone will take your awesome work and integrate it into mame, or complete the joystick section.

saint

  • turned to the Dark Side
  • Supreme Chancellor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6052
  • Last login:April 17, 2019, 07:39:26 am
  • I only work in cyberspace...
    • Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 11:12:00 am »
I've copied the 4 .rar archives you posted to http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/aae -- is there anything else that you think should be up there that you might not have had space for? Thank you for open-sourcing it!
--- John St.Clair
     Build Your Own Arcade Controls FAQ
     http://www.arcadecontrols.com/
     Project Arcade 2!
     http://www.projectarcade2.com/
     saint@arcadecontrols.com

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 02:20:29 pm »
I have a mixture of sadness and anticipation about this announcement. Sad in that AAE's progress as its' own application comes to a close and excitement about the possibilities of the "shader" being written into a future version of mame. Tim, thank you for your hard work on this, it will not be in vein. I am just an experienced end user, I have no idea how to use the code but I'm certain someone here does and will work with this soon. Please keep us updated here!

aae

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • Last login:November 25, 2011, 04:17:25 pm
Re: AAE Source Code - Thanks Saint!
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 03:26:23 pm »
Saint,

Thanks for the mirror!

The only thing missing is the allegro 4.310 libs, allegrogl libs, libping and zlib. 
Those are available elsewhere, no worries.


The demo is very Mame code heavy, and all input including joysticks work fine. The code just needs a lot of work to finish it.

Hopefully someone can get at least some use out of what I posted. 

Thanks, and I wish I could have done more.

Thanks again,
Tim


Haze

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1198
  • Last login:April 23, 2019, 05:56:03 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
    • MAME Development Blog
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 12:45:13 pm »
Thanks for posting this.  It at the very least assures somebody can keep it up to date if they feel like it.  As long as the source is kept in distribution it can always be used.

Cakemeister

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 975
  • Last login:February 26, 2019, 05:34:37 pm
  • I'm a llama!
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2010, 09:39:36 am »
Thank you for contributing your code.

Most likely the code can be ported to use SDL instead of Allegro. Then, just the video parts can be added into SDLMAME. Since SDLMAME is now a part of the official build, everyone would be able to use the improved vector game graphics.
Old, but not obsolete.

Arbee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:November 07, 2018, 01:43:53 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 12:10:00 pm »
Thank you for contributing your code.

Most likely the code can be ported to use SDL instead of Allegro. Then, just the video parts can be added into SDLMAME. Since SDLMAME is now a part of the official build, everyone would be able to use the improved vector game graphics.

Yes, I'm definitely looking at pulling the video parts into the SDL OSD soon ("SDLMAME" is no longer a separate thing so it no longer has a separate name).

jimmy2x2x

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1220
  • Last login:December 19, 2018, 01:29:48 am
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 12:30:29 pm »
Excellent news ;)

beavisx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Last login:November 13, 2018, 06:52:18 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 12:31:02 am »
Sorry to see you stop but glad to see it's open source. I'm now using two analog sticks and AAE crashs when they are both plugged in. If anyone knows how to get aae running without crashing that be great.

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 11:52:21 am »
Yeah, my AAE rig kept crashing also. AAE does not accept joystick controls and has anemic spinner/trackball controls. I shelved my dedicated AAE comp until a new version of mame is released with the AAE shader code. Please post here when it has been included in a new version. With the AAE visual controls + a stable version of mame, vector games will be awesome (eventually)! This will become the ZVG killer when it's eventually done. I guess we will keep waiting....

Pingaloka

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44
  • Last login:July 20, 2018, 02:07:24 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 05:00:32 pm »
Definately this will be a great update for MAME. This proves that there's plenty of work to do concerning the achievement of perfect emulation.
Specially concerning older and vectorized games.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 10:14:17 pm »
AAE...has anemic spinner/trackball controls.

What does this mean?

And, following the conversations about this at MAMEWorld, it doesn't look likely AAE will in any way be used. Nor has anyone mentioned an alternative approach.
-Banned-

Haze

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1198
  • Last login:April 23, 2019, 05:56:03 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
    • MAME Development Blog
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2010, 07:54:47 am »
AAE...has anemic spinner/trackball controls.

What does this mean?

And, following the conversations about this at MAMEWorld, it doesn't look likely AAE will in any way be used. Nor has anyone mentioned an alternative approach.

Yeah RB seems to have declared it unportable for some reason.  I don't know the details, but since he's in charge of that kind of thing, it's starting to look unlikely.

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2010, 11:28:33 am »
Bad news. ;(
The spinner controls in AAE do not have enough range in terms of adjusting the sensitivity. You may be able to get just enough movement out of your mouse input to play Tempest and maybe tweaking OS mouse input but I didn't want to fuss with tweaking mouse input in the OS and Major Havoc is basically unplayable for me. Hence my dedicated macmame Major Havoc/Tempest cab conversion, soon with the Ram-Controls MH Roller (I just received!) installed. I will be posting about this soon.
The bummer for me is that to play Space Fury on a real Vector monitor, I will have to build a whole ZVG rig! I have never seen a Space Fury for sale in my area, ever. Besides, the Space Fury Cabinet is kinda fugly.

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2010, 11:51:42 am »
I just read the Mameworld AAE threads. I basically only use macmame OS X for testing and tweaking on my desktop comp, not for actual gameplay. If there was a FE for macmame os 9, that would be awesome! I actually prefer PC flavors of mame, EXCEPT for emulating vectors. Even in some of the screenshotsof that thread, aliasing can be seen in the Tempest snaps and IMO, it looks worse as you go through updated versions of mame. Some vectors will NEVER be faithfully reproduced, Asteroids Deluxe is an excellent example. Just cannot be done where it looks even close to the real thing. I finally got my real AD up and running and it looks soooo awesome, the bullets glowing like plasma, all the vectors with the slight blue-green glow from the gel overlay, it's really worth getting a real AD if that's a game you love as much as I do.
Now Major Havoc is a bit different. In macmame os 9 + a super duper bright CRT I found, I can get things close, never perfect but close. Plus, it will cost me around $600 or more to get a working WG6100 and a set of real MH boards in the Tempest cabinet. I will concentrate on the roller and the cabinet artwork for now.

aae

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • Last login:November 25, 2011, 04:17:25 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 08:17:19 pm »
See how long you can keep that Asteroid Deluxe up and running. AAE looked almost exactly like the original on a 1024x768 presentation monitor. All games look fantastic if tweaked correctly. Beats trying to hunt down and keep working dozens of obscure and rare vector games IMHO.

Analog controls were fixed in the version I was working on when I quit. Maybe someday i'll put out another release.

It's too bad RB couldnt convert the code for mame. I did it, but it was a major conversion for an older build. Looking at the current code makes my head hurt. Way to high level and obfucscated for me.

Good luck on your expensive monolith collection!


Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2010, 06:33:42 pm »
I think Tempest is playable with a spinner of 500 increments. Even more so with a Turbo Twist 2. Admittedly, Space Fury is whacked out in AAE. But I never liked that game enough to care. Battlezone, Tempest, Asteroids Deluxe, Space Duel....Star Wars would be nice, but those are the ones I care about most, and they work.
-Banned-

Cakemeister

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 975
  • Last login:February 26, 2019, 05:34:37 pm
  • I'm a llama!
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2010, 08:09:26 am »
I couldn't even get the code to compile. If you could get it to compile with MinGW, it would be a lot easier to port over to use SDL and then to incorporate into MAME. Just get one set of code that is working, not two non-working sets.
Old, but not obsolete.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • Last login:April 16, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2010, 05:57:30 pm »
Quote
See how long you can keep that Asteroid Deluxe up and running. AAE looked almost exactly like the original on a 1024x768 presentation monitor. All games look fantastic if tweaked correctly.

 This comment is you taking personal offense to a person who can clearly see the differences (and major flaws)  in looks.

 Sorry, but hes correct.  AAE does not look anything like the real deal.  Its better than mames display.. but not even close, even with the best of tweaking.  I know, because I also have an actual Asteroids Deluxe as well.

 For the people who dont have one, and have not seen one in years, they will be happy and content with even lackluster effects.  But for people who have seen the real deal on a more recent timeframe, or a direct comparison... its stands out like a hot-pink suit at a funeral.

 I think the best way to simulate vectors, has to be with the use of mathmatical formulas, with mame using the proper line drawing output that vectors use rather than the entire frame changing.  Its pretty poor that mame does not use the correct drawing method even as a close simulation to begin with, imop.  Esp, when mames goals are supposed to be accuracy.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • Last login:April 16, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2010, 06:13:15 pm »
 For those who dont know... A vector monitor does not draw a picture line by line like a typical tube.  The tv's gun is directed to draw the shapes on-the-fly... much like a CNC Machine might use as an edge cut-path.

 You can actually see this on a real machine if you turn the tubes voltages up.  You will see a continuous line that connects all the shapes together.  When the voltage is dropped to normal levels, the line that connects objects is not at visible levels, and thus you dont see it.

 This line drawing mode really changes the way things work.  Firstly, anything drawn on a vector is time based.  If a pixel is lit for longer time, its brighter.  I suspect that they updated the bullet in A.D. quite often to make that pixel extremely bright.  If you dont update often, the brightness is much more reduced... and the image will start to fade.  This fade effect is also used to fissile things like the exploding ships parts slowly as they disperse.

 Because of the phospher, anything drawn creates a slight glow.  Brighter images create a larger stronger glow.  And as images travel, the glow effect has a fade time as well.  

 Additionally, the blue overlays used on a game like asteroids deluxe, sharpened the image up a little by reducing a bit of the tubes spread glow, and amplified the effect of bright glow. (contrast effect)    The bullet still looking white case the intensity is so strong it passes right thru the blue gel unhampered... yet the glow around the bullet being a bright burning blue plasma like effect, which is much more shaded and different looking than a typical non-gelled vector.

 If Mame started drawing vectors using a simulated vector path system, I think it would be easy to initiate realistic looking vector effects using very simple formulas of fade times and simple glow spread parameters.

 As it stands, AAE fails largely because every vector is treated as if there were drawn at the same frame.  Therefore, all the effect are not timed correctly, and the fades and glow intensities are all wrong.

Cakemeister

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 975
  • Last login:February 26, 2019, 05:34:37 pm
  • I'm a llama!
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2010, 05:56:25 pm »
very simple formulas of fade times and simple glow spread parameters.



I believe AAE uses shaders to accomplish this.

Quote

 As it stands, AAE fails largely because every vector is treated as if there were drawn at the same frame.  Therefore, all the effect are not timed correctly, and the fades and glow intensities are all wrong.


Vector games running on CPUs still operate on frames. Do you mean "drawn at the same time?" If so, I think MAME and AAE would draw the vectors in the same order that the actual hardware does.


Old, but not obsolete.

newmanfamilyvlogs

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1611
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:58:16 am
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,103584.msg1096585.html#msg1096585
    • Newman Family Vlogs
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2010, 09:03:56 pm »
i would think the higher frame rates, by way of higher refresh rates, would have a more positive effect on the issue that xiaou is talking about.

A really nice PC CRT that can do, for example, 1024x768@185Hz is going to feel much more authentic than a LCD at 1280x1024@60Hz.

It might even been that the subtly in drawing times are completely lost at such a 'low' frame rate.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • Last login:April 16, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2010, 09:35:30 pm »
Quote
Vector games running on CPUs still operate on frames. Do you mean "drawn at the same time?" If so, I think MAME and AAE would draw the vectors in the same order that the actual hardware does.

 If I start drawing at the center of the screen, then work my way outwards in a spiral path... the center would gradually get dimmer as it faded over time... while the newest points in the line would be the brightest. 

 The time of each point drawn, must be tracked, so that the fade time is correct.

 In mame and AAEs case, an entire frame is just drawn.  There is no tracking whatsoever of each dot/line... only some phony blur/glow effect.  When two things get near and overlap, that glow effect gets out of control, and goes way beyond the look of a real vector.  Because of all that.. the look will never be anywhere near correct.

 There is no voltage control in mame so you cant even see the 'single line' drawing even if it was emulated...  which Im not so sure it even is emulated... at least, not to that degree.

 And of course, then you have the problem of the colored gel.  Which again, isnt replicated accurately in shading, look, effect.

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2010, 10:02:06 am »
Interesting points here. One thing that AAE had (but I'm not certain actually worked) was a retrace control. I think this was an attempt to have a similar effect as cranking the brightness on a real vector monitor too high and seeing all the retraces (like in the attract mode of Major Havoc, where the name is drawn). The actual "mechanics" of emulating vectors is a bit out of my technical knowledge, I leave that stuff to the experts here. :)
As for my Asteroids Deluxe. This has taken YEARS for me to finally hunt down, buy and then months to get the boards fixed.
My AD has only 15,000 plays and the vector monitor is almost like new, with zero burn in, so I do not expect any problems with this particular game.
This is my THRID Asteroids Deluxe. So I have some decent "Asteroids Deluxe karma" here. I had a real, working cocktail that I traded. I had a water damaged upright that I had mamed for a long time. I just couldn't stand the imperfections with my second most favorite game of all time. When I tried playing AD in AAE or even macmame, it just drove me nuts to the point where I went out and became aggressive about getting a REAL Asteroids Deluxe. Then spending the time, effort and money to get it playing perfectly. Again, this is my FAVORITE GAME of all time here, except for maybe Stargate. I don't want to play every vector game ever made, just the few I really like.
AD just cannot be emulated 100%, even if you had a ZVG hooked up to a WG6100 (real vector monitor) it would STILL not be quite right, as the B & W vector monitor in the AD is as bright and sharp as it gets.
WG6100's are a different story. The 6100 in my Gravitar just went out and I am trying to fit right now... But that's part of the fun of collecting genuine, 30 year old arcade games, the fixing, maintainence and repairs. Related to BYOAC stuff but a bit different, as I have to "wheel and deal" to get parts and repairs.
AAE is a great idea, I support it and hope for its' continued future progress, somehow.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2010, 04:14:54 pm »
Even if you could accurately emulate the brightness, you'd still missing the 'hovering' effect of the graphics - because they're displayed on a mirror.
-Banned-

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • Last login:April 16, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2010, 04:50:09 pm »
The Half-Silvered mirror can be acquired.
Either real glass, or a cheaper plastic version, such as a teleprompter version.

With a dual monitor setup, theoretically, you could display the artwork on one monitor,  and the game on the other... creating the true 3d effect.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: AAE Source Code
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2010, 03:47:47 am »
The Half-Silvered mirror can be acquired.
Either real glass, or a cheaper plastic version, such as a teleprompter version.

With a dual monitor setup, theoretically, you could display the artwork on one monitor,  and the game on the other... creating the true 3d effect.


Better off simulating it with one monitor.
-Banned-

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: AAE Source Code/Tempest Multigame
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2010, 10:02:46 am »
To change gears just a bit...there really IS something that CAN and NEEDS to be moved over from AAE.
It would be great to have the Tempest multigame roms work in a new version of mame one day. This has nothing to do with the "shader" or Open GL or whatever graphics issues. Just have the Tempestm rom with all the sub set roms work would be awesome. Tim has created the only two emulators that will play this. Off the top of my head the roms needed are:
Tempestm  -multigame menu
Tempest1
Tempest2
Tempest3 -one of these is actually Tempest Tubes
Vortex
Aliens
Vector Breakout

Just getting vector breakout to work all by itself would be awesome. Of course, having the complete set work would be MUCH better.

I have tried and tried to get this to work but it fails on everything but AAE and TempestGL that Tim created. We know all the problems with running AAE, it would be great to get the Tempest Multigame to work in a "vanilla flavored", standard PC version of mame. If someone has gotten this to work on a mac or anything but AAE, PLEASE let me know!