Help with folding steering wheel project please!

[Cretster]

Just picked up this force feedback set of controls (suitable for PS2/PS3/PC - via USB) from ebay for a fantastic £0.99 after making a cheeky bid on it.


I've received it today and tested that it all works fine by playing GT Prologue on the PS3 so I'm happy with how it is, but the actual plan with buying it was to adapt it for my cabinet build.

I haven't the faintest whether these sort of controls can be used with Mame or not (ie without loads of aggro) and if they can't then it's no biggie as I'll use it with my consoles, but I wanted to find out if anyone else has any info/experience of using something like this for playing driving games?

I have a theoretical plan that the steering wheel itself can be integrated into the front of the control panel, but folded down out of the way when not needed, without actually being detached.  We'll reserve judgement on whether that actually happens since I'm sure many people have ideas like this, but I don't want to start hacking things around without finding out if I can use the thing or not obviously!!

Appreciate any relevant info, thanks!

I'm going to try hooking it up to my basic test cabinet to try and suss it out but it would save time if people know about this kind of setup.

[BadMouth]

Yes, it will work.

Have you searched the forum for info?
(or possibly looked at the other post on the front page entitled "Steering Wheel" ?)

[Cretster]

Yeah I did have a look - sorry as it sounds like I've obviously missed something pretty in my face obvious.

Apologies if that's the case, I'll hang my head in shame and go take another look.

[BadMouth]

You got me feeling guilty now....  

You will be able to map it like any other mame control.
Go into the controls menu, select a control (i.e. dial), then move the wheel and viola...the steering wheel works.

There is also an analogue menu in the same place.  Play with the sensitivity until the games seems to play better.
No real formula there.  I have grand notions of making a database of perfect settings (hoping all logitech wheels would be the same), but
I've been too busy setting up other emulators and pc games to fine tune my own,  so that hasn't gotten very far.  You will also have to reverse the input of the pedals on some games,
(i.e. the gas registers as all the way down when it is all the way up)

Other helpful stuff: go into the mame.ini file and change the joystick deadzone to .1 or lower (mine is at .05).
The default is .3 which means the wheel won't even begin to respond until you've turned it fairly far.

Forget about games like pole position.  The game resets the center point when you crash.  Fine for a wheel that spins 360 degrees.  Not good for one that doesn't.

Keep an eye out.  I'd like to get a driving knowledge base organized somehow in the next month.
I'm still a newb myself and am by no means an authority.

[Cretster]

Heh heh - sorry mate - didn't mean to. 

I've found one or two useful threads now and done a little experimentation.

I had to first quickly rebuild my test cab to hook it up and try stuff out.  I already have the basic steering working in Outrun although the pedals wouldn't work.
Think I got them setup wrong.

But yeah it obviously all looks doable.  I'm contemplating fitting my old PS2 in the cab, or perhaps a ps2 emulator so it'd be nice for gran turismo etc too.
One thread that's giving me a bit of interesting reading is this one:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=97544.msg1029028;topicseen#msg1029028

Not quite what I had in mind but it's certainly one relatively easy means of mounting a wheel as & when required.

My plan was to allow the wheel to fold out from the cab indo a gap/flap on the underside of the control panel but I'm not sure yet how doable that is.  I'm well aware there good potential for creating something that looks hideous like that, although if I'm honest I'd prefer the convenience and functionality of that above prettiness....

Already have left a nice gap at the bottom/front of my cab build (see pic below) ready for a pedal set, so I can work on that now I have a set.

[Turnarcades]

Using USB wheels on a MAME build is not difficult and should work just fine. I too have several wheel sets (Gran Turismo force feedback 1, Tevion racer etc.) ready for such builds but not had chance yet. The tricky bit is fitting them in a way that blends into a regular-styled cabinet. I did devise a fairly simple design for a customer for temporary wheel use that worked quite well and looked like any other cabinet in normal use:



You can read about the rest of that build here and although there's no details on software configuration, it may give some inspiration to mod your own cabinet.

[Cretster]

Well, the ball is rolling already and it looks like what I want to do, should not actually be tooooo tricky to set up on my cab (more by luck than anything I think!).

I removed a couple of front panels from the front and bottom of the control panel console and it gives good space to test out the idea in principle.
Getting it all spot on will be the tricky part, and then probably harder still, making it look ok afterwards!

I let one of the brace panels pivot (it's not very smooth as the pins are not symmetrical) and just clamped the wheel in place.
I think as a VERY rough proof of concept it's a start:


I'll have to experiment with how to get it so it pivots nicely down to be fully out of the way of the front of the cab, then possibly move the front cupboard door bit upwards to cover it up once it's been opened or stashed.

The worst bit I think will be arranging some sort of cutout in the front of the control panel that doesn't look horrible....
I was wondering about a sprung flap that fills the cutout and folds down from the inside of the control panel but probably easier said than done I think.
I don't just want a big hole at the front though really!

Pedals will fit down like this:


The ruler is across a line where I can hack the front of the pedal box off as it was empty apart from a weight.  This means it won't protrude past the front of the cab edges, but is nicely positioned for playing.

Here's roughly how the wheel will be positioned:


And more or less how I intend to set it up so that the wheel will simply pivot up or down to lock in position or swing out of the way into the cupboard space in the front of the cab.





This means it'll be hidden for non driving games but have a natural position for playing those driving classics like outrun & chase HQ and erm....... well anyway.... :

[Cretster]

Thanks for your input Craig - I actually just linked to your thread in my post prior to yours as I'd been reading the thread and found it an excellent idea for an uncomplicated setup.

I'll probably end up wishing I'd gone with that but I like making thins difficult for myself.

By the way, I hope you don't mind, but the rough outline of my cab was inspired by your 'slimline master' model that I saw on ebay.
I had a wardrobe donated to me with relatively narrow panels, and have to make a wife friendly cab so it looked just about right.
It's probably nowhere near in reality but the overall side profile looked more or less what I wanted.

[BadMouth]

google Nebula's Sega Model 2 emulator.  It emulates some great 3D driving games from the 90's that MAME does not.
These modern pc wheels work perfect with it.  It even has force feedback.  Everything is pretty straightforward and easy to configure.
The only oddball thing that might come up is that you have to have to uncheck the "combine pedals" box in windows (control panel>game controllers).

Best to know now, rather than after you've set up the controls in mame with that box checked.

What it does is make the computer see the gas and brake as two different halves of the Y axis instead of separate axes.
Most PC games prefer them combined, but M2 Emulator will not work with them that way.
You can get it to change back and forth with Logitech Profiler, but that's just more time spent configuring.

[Cretster]

Thanks for the tip, that sounds worth checking out for sure.
I do want to add I various console emulators too, and already have snes and n64 kind of working, but setting up for ps2 and dreamcast/saturn etc looks like a real pain.

Will get there though. I'm horribly impatient so I constantly have to remind myself to stop and think a bit before charging ahead and messing things up.

[Turnarcades]

Sorry I missed the link when I read through

Quite flattered actually that my designs inspired you, even if the driving cab design doesn't quite work for you. Your cab isn't actually that far off our model, but is probably just a bit bigger. The important thing is you've included the sloped lower front which (as you've no doubt discovered) improves the centre of gravity to increase stability, and creates much more usable interior space at the base.

[Cretster]

Not sure about your driving one - I don't actually remember seeing that one for some reason.
I wouldn't have dreamt of not having the sloping front edge as it would have been quite unstable without.
As it is, it sits really sturdily so with two small kids in the house I'm not at all worried.

Very pleased to hear that you approve though.  I was careful to ensure I literally just used yours as a rough outline without copying dimensions etc.  You never know when people might get really upset about something like that, and I don't like potentially treading on peoples toes or anything.  I hope I can do it justice, so I'll let you know once it's come along a bit more.

As I mentioned the general profile of the slimline design suited perfectly my needs for fitting the narrow donor panels I had, and the fact it has to not intrude into the room too much.  So hopefully everyone's happy this way.

One reason I got the nod from the mrs to make it was that it was to have a big cupboard in the front that could house my consoles etc to help keep things tidy.
Well sadly that cupboard space now won't really be available because of the folding wheel design.  Oops - how careless of me!  

[Cretster]

Ok I have done some work on this tonight and it's a good step closer towards having a steering wheel that folds fully out of the way.  It's nearly sorted now so that the steering wheel fits in place and looks pretty tidy I think (considering it's not a finished build etc).

Here is how it looks with the wheel in place for playing a driving game:




Then after opening the front cabinet door the wheel folds down like so:


Then once the front cab door is latched closed it looks like this with the wheel completely hidden:


Looking inside the cab at the back you can see the wheel folded away inside:


So Im pleased how this is turning out because I think it looks ok with the wheel in situ, and Im pleased with how the wheel folds away completely out of sight.

What I need to somehow achieve now is for the front panel to look ok when the wheel is not in use.
I was thinking about some sort of sliding panel to cover that hole, perhaps a bit to each side that slides across, but I only have vague ideas.

I'd really appreciate suggestions on how I can hide that nasty looking steering wheel cutout with something that moves as required.
Show me how clever you all are!

[BadMouth]

Wow!  I'm impressed.  I think you might start a trend.

I don't have any great ideas on how to cover the cutout on the front.

Some quick thoughts (but I think there's a better solution out there):

Paint the area satin black, so it isn't as noticeable.

If the sides are deep enough, make a flap on each side that swings around front and latches in the center.

Work it into the design somehow.

(I started working on a driving cab knowledge base.  I will probably post it sometime this weekend so that others can help improve it)

[Cretster]

Thanks!  I think your suggestion is along the same lines as I was thinking, to either have 'doors' that fold or slide apart from the hole to open it up for the wheel.

I want to do my best to make sure it doesn't end up looking absurd and that's not easy to do, especially for a beginner like me on a first cab and not much woodwork skill!

Don't worry about colour as I will be using a combination of black paint and vinyl wrap that I received today (80s style black ash wood effect) which will cover the cab when finished.  I will be painting the interior bits black where they might be visible.

[Turnarcades]

Had a thought and I think for the neatest finish, create two sliding doors inside that space, sliding from the sides, then T-mould the exposed grain of the wood in that section.

Good work by the way.

[Cretster]

Cheers for the feedback chief.

I had wondered about sliders inside, and I hadn't thought of tmolding round the edge I must admit.  Would be a nice finishing touch for sure, but I'm just not certain about leaving it with that big cutaway being visible.  I suppose it's feasible that it might just work as a 'feature' but am not really convinced I have to admit.

What I'd prefer is L section 'doors' (ie across front panel and back underneath) that slide in to the middle across the front.
Doddle to make those of course, but what I can't envisage is how to make them slide smoothly, or even better both move at the same time (ie push one and the other goes too).
I have some powerful 1/4 scale servos but I don't know how I could get the to do it.

Also have a small lathe and mill so in theory I can machine basic metal parts if needed.

[Cretster]

Well I've done a bunch more this weekend so things are coming on nicely.

I received the vinyl wood effect roll for covering the cab  - looks good but thinner than I expected so I really will have to spend time on surface finish before I apply it.

I have successfully repaired the lilliput monitor after I found it was not displaying red via the vga input.  As expected it was the plug where the cable joins the board - one of the pins had broken free from the plug.  I'd glued it all unfortunately, so in the process of unpicking all the glue to get to the connector, I went through 2 more of the wires.  It's fixed now though and works just fine.  
You can see how it looks in the pics below.

My friend was round earlier (he is lucky enough to own a prebuilt mame cabinet that his boss bought him!) and I asked him about how I could hide the cutout in the front.  He suggested making a smaller cutout that would look less conspicuous by cutting a slot in the steering wheel housing.
Didn't like the plan at first but I decided to try it and I like the results.

Still looks ok with the wheel in situ:


But when it's folded away there is now a rectangular shape hole that is a lot smaller and a lot less weird looking than the previous version:


Also, I've cutout the holes either side of the screen for the tweeters to mount, and have mounted the amp below the cupboard section on its own shelf.  The amp is boxed in so that it can't really move around except to come forwards (and out if need be) - makes it look more like it's meant to be there.  Sorry you can't really see it in this pic (should use proper camera not phone!)

I've also chopped the front corners off the control panel to make them curved.  It looks better and is less likely to cause a painful rib injury! 

I've added a small red pushbutton to the right of the screen which will be the main PC power button.  Might get some more and have a mini panel there for various bits.

Have also begun putting filler in some of the screw holes, although I'm way about doing them all in case I suddenly think there's a need to have bits removed from it temporarily for any reason.

I have a piece of acrylic cut out for the marquee now too.  It's only 2mm thick so very flexible, but the main thing that worries me with the marquee is how I hold it in place, and do a neat job of it.  Any suggestions?

Am thinking that I'd like to use some of this acrylic sheet to cover the control panel and add graphics beneath it, but I'm not sure how people go about securing such stuff in place when they do this.  Does it mean it has to have some sort of frame over it to lock it down?  I had an idea about a bunch of red anodised cap head allen bolts around the perimeter of the control panel to hold it down but I'm not convinced yet, so I'd be grateful of comments about that too.

[Turnarcades]

Adding an acrylic overlay at this point will be tricky as they're best cut when the control panel wood is to get the best alignment and resist shattering. If you do decide to do it, use Lexan (not acrylics like perspex), lay it over the blank panel and use small pilot holes drilled at high speed, then use a flush trim router bit inserted in the hole and worked out to the proper hole widths. Holding it down is not a problem as the buttons do a good enough job of holding it firmly down, though usual practice is to T-mould the edge of the panel, overlapping the lexan edges to prevent lifting at the edges.

As long as your shell is structurally sound, fill those holes as fixings can be done from the insides using L-brackets if necessary, and if covering them over you wil want to fill and sand them flat.

For the marquee acrylic, either buy some proper marquee retainers online or DIY it using some type of edging strip. With the wood-grain look of your cabinet, I'd recommend some 28mm L-piece trim in natural timber from B&Q. They come in long L-shaped strips, so just cut them to the width of your cabinet, screw them into the top panel and lower marquee panel and they will grip the marquee arylic and artwork in place, pulling the upper and lower edges of the acrylic flat against the edges of those panels like so:

[Cretster]

Thanks for that Craig - I did consider last night actually that some sort of L profile stuff would probably be as good as it'll get for holding in the marquee.  It sounds like that will indeed be the best option so thanks for clarifying that.  I'll still have to do two small blanking bits for the ends (since the acrylic is 60cm wide but the gap is 65cm) but they'll be covered by the top & bottom pieces too so no worries there.

I know my local B&Q have a rack of stuff like that so I can hopefully get some on the way home tonight along with some sort of gloss black or satin black paint for covering bits that won't have the vinyl covering.

I believe my neons/cathode tubes have arrived today too.  2x 12" white ones for the marquee illumination, and 2x red ones for hopefully getting a bit of exterior glow from the cabinet onto the back wall and floor where it will live.

I would have used polycarb but I wanted to get some stuff there and then, and B&Q only have acrylic worse luck.  It does however seem to be pretty forgiving stuff, but I'll not say too much until I get a control panel overlay actually cut!

I'm wondering if it's possible to pass light into the acrylic that goes over the control panel, in order to illuminate the graphics beneath.  Probably yes but I expect it's something I'd have had to have worked towards earlier on really, and could be tricky to implement at this stage.  Possibly something for a 'Phase 2' control panel at some point.....

Main thing I need to scratch my head about now, is how to have some sort of flap to cover that gap in the front panel, so it looks better.  It's not too straightforward because of the way the wheel goes in position but I'm sure it's doable to look neat somehow.....

Ideas welcome for that one!

[Cretster]

I got some hardwood L profile 20x20mm stuff tonight for holding the marquee.  My cold cathodes arrived too.  2 red ones and 2 white ones.
The reds are for giving a glow onto the floor out from the pedal area.

I got the pedals roughly fitted and boxed in tonight as you can see here:


The hole above is where the amp lives.  This is more or less how the cab looks at the moment:

[Turnarcades]

Looking good. I would have gone with pedals over to the right and enclosed that section you reserved for the amp, but the overall cabinet is looking good - once covered over it'll look great.

[Cretster]

Hmmm, that's interesting.  Presume there's a particular reason you'd have the pedals over on one side like that?sib;

Quite probable you're right about the amp but I can't be bothered changing it at this stage and I'm reasonably happy with it.
It's getting trickier now as I seem to be slowing down a bit and spending time trying to figure out what little bits & bobs need doing to ensure it ends up looking ok.

I hate prep/finish work, so this is the challenging part of the build for me....

[Cretster]

Got some lights installed tonight but not a lot else done as I didn't have long.
The marquee lights are in with foil around to help spread the light out.  Seems to work ok with the rough 'test' marquee:


Not perfect but it ought to do once I print it properly.  Won't be that image, that's just a google image I borrowed for test purposes.  I'll be doing my own thing for this.  Apologies if this image belongs to someone here - will happily remove it if required.

This is how the marquee setup will look, although there is no lower trim in this pic: