Hello, I'm thinking of building a cabinet and have PLENTY of questions...

[LunarLoveLust]

Anyone mind helping me out?

1. I was hoping I could play just about every game that MAME has to offer, and i've noticed i'd need a trackball and a "spinner" (I believe that is what it's called) anything else i'd need?

2. I'm trying to find some good plans for a 4 player controll panel, but I havent had much luck, any suggestions of where I could find that?

3. What is the best type of monitor to use for my own cabinet? I don't have much money (I have over a year to save tho) but i've narrowed it down to a TV with S-Video in or a "Wells Gardner" arcade monitor

4. Is there a specific type of video card anyone can suggest for me to use with the computer going into my cabinet?

5. Due to the fact that my controlls would have alot of buttons, I was thinking about doing a multiple joystick hack and connecting them all to my computer by USB, is this a good idea?

Well that's all I can think of now, thank you very much

[BombProofPlane]

1. Just wondering do you like trackball spinner games or do you just want to beable to play everything?

if you really like these game by all means get them but i only use my trackball for one game (missile command)

i could live without it considering how much they are but it would leave a huge empty space in my control panel lol


2. Again this relates to my panel

I ask the same above question again

the 4 Joysticks are there but its not really that wonderful when you realise there are barely any of these games to play

3. Arcade Monitor

You can find old ones cheap and they work great in combination with an Arcade Vga

with a tv everything going into it will endup interlaced

on the other hand with an arcade monitor it will be non interlaced as long as the res is lower than 300 which really helps on the clarity and saves your eyes

I really don't see the point why you need a vgahybrid arcade monitor anymore unless you plan on playing some new games on your pc or connecting nexgen consoles threw a transcoder so you can get 480p

4. see 3

5. i use ms sidewinders all the time but ive heard good things about the keywiz

[LunarLoveLust]

Wow, that was a quick reply Thanks

I haven't played too many trackball games and such, but if i'm going to make a nice cabinet, I'd love to be able to play them.

The main reason I started using MAME and such is to play all the old side scrolling beat em ups that I used to play with friends, so the 4 player set up is a must  

3. Arcade Monitor

You can find old ones cheap and they work great in combination with an Arcade Vga

with a tv everything going into it will endup interlaced

on the other hand with an arcade monitor it will be non interlaced as long as the res is lower than 300 which really helps on the clarity and saves your eyes

I really don't see the point why you need a vgahybrid arcade monitor anymore unless you plan on playing some new games on your pc or connecting nexgen consoles threw a transcoder so you can get 480p

I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about here -_-;; sorry but could you describe what you mean by interlaced and 480p and such? I was considering hooking up my PS2 here and there to the cabinet but that's about it.

Also, where could I get an old arcade monitor? And would they look good while running other systems running through a computer? (Such as NES, Genesis, SNES and other emulators)

Thanks again for all the help

[jakejake28]

The main reason I started using MAME and such is to play all the old side scrolling beat em ups that I used to play with friends, so the 4 player set up is a must  

thats what i thought... love those 4-p games, till i saw the size of those massive cps. around 45 inches average. what i did was make a 2-p cp and just mount 2 usb ports to the bottom of the cp. just plug in a sidewinder...

as for how to interface, try either the keywiz or ipac2 for a 2player panel or an ipac4 or mk64 for a 4player panel.

[APFelon]

1) If you want to go all out, you could add a yoke, a steering wheel, and a joystick that supports more than eight directions.

2) When all else fails, design your own. Most four player games don't require more than three buttons per player, and for simplicity's sake, you may want to consider that when designing your panel.

3) You will find many different opinions on this, and as such you probably won't find concensus on what is the "best". Purists like an original monitor, some settle for a television, and others install an actual computer monitor. It all depends on what you want to do. Some people even go so far as installing a rotating arcade monitor so they can play games like Tempest and Dig Dug in their "true-to-arcade" style. I use the original Wells Gardner monitor that came with the cabinet with an ArcadeVGA card (an upgrade from a Matrox G400) and I am reasonably pleased with the result.

4) There are sites out there that offer compatibility lists for arcade monitors, but if you are using a television or a computer monitor, any decent card will do (just check the features of the card in order to make sure it does what you want it to do. If you use a television and buy a card with no S-Video out, well...)

5) I built my forst panel using a hacked Sidewinder, and I was happy with it. I don't see a problem with going the USB route. I use a J-PAC and I am happy with that, as well.

When I was building my cabinet, I visited every site Google would belch out on the subject and I found it interesting how many ways people came up with in designing their cabinets. Some control panels are so crowded with controls, it looks as though you'd need a doctorate in quantum physics in order to operate them. (This is not a put-down; I would love a cab like that in my home). I went a simpler route. I settled for a two joystick panel with seven buttons per player. The reason I did it this way was to make it easy to operate and for it to be as "user-friendly" as possible. I wanted to give friends and guests interested in playing Dig Dug simple instructions on how to operate the machine.

Just remember, design the cabinet for what you want to use it for. If you aren't planning on playing Tron or Front Line a great deal, maybe you can skip the spinner. It sounds like you already have your "dream machine" in mind, and a goal set-- Playing side-scrolling beat-em-ups. You probably wouldn't want to install a flight yoke or a steering wheel if you hate Final Lap and S.T.U.N. Runner.

Best of luck! This is a great forum, and if you can't find the answer here, you probably won't find it anywhere.

APf

[Spaced Invader]

Just a note...

1. A lot of four way games (pac-man, donkey kong, etc...) don't play very well on an eight way stick. Just something you might want to consider.

2. My vote is design your own (very rewarding). You can look at some of the panels from the examples page to get an idea. You'll need six to eight buttons for player 1 and 2 and two or three for players 3 and 4.

3. Monitors are a topic in themselves but it breaks down to this...TV is the cheapest route (unless you purchase a cab with working arcade monitor) and gives a picture (with S-Video) that is reminiscent of authentic arcade. VGA is only inexpensive if you use a small monitor; it's the easiest to set up; and gives a picture that many describe as "too good" (you can see pixels-and it doesn't look like the arcades). Arcade monitors can be expensive (if new); are the hardest to set up; but provide the truest arcade picture. Caution, this is an area where opinions vary greatly!!!

Oh yeah, interlaced means the lines are displayed alternately, odd lines then even lines.

4. Depends on the monitor you choose. You don't need a very powerful card to run MAME. Radeons seem to have the best TV out if you go that route. the Arcade VGA card is the way to go if you use an arcade monitor. And any half decent card will be fine if you use a VGA monitor. Remember if you are going to be running 3D games you'll want a GeForce or Radeon.

5. Should work fine...I did a combination keyboard encoder/joystick hack control panel.

Hope this helps, and good luck on your project!  

[TalkingOctopus]

1. A 4 way joystick for pacman, q-bert ect...

2. Here is my 4 player cp:



I have a full scale photoshop template of it here:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~stevebec/cp2_rev6.psd

You can move the joysticks and buttons around and make your own layout with this file if you wish and then you can print it out as a drill guide/template.

3. A Wells Gardner arcade monitor w/ an ArcadeVGA would be the best option.  I could not justify spending that much money, so I went with a sharp 27" tv and svideo on a radeon 7500 and I feel that looks great.

5. I would reccommend a nice encoder.  I use the hagstrom ke72 and it is a slick piece of hardware.

[night]

look at mine in the projects forum. i still need to finish up some wiring/lighting, but its in a fully playable state, so im taking a break for a bit and just enjoying the thing.

i went with 2 supers for the outside, 2 optical rotories in the middle, a tball and spinner. and i have TV guns on order. there isnt any game i cant play (i dont believe) through some means.
if you dont wanna mess with the removeable, you definitly dont have to. but the thing is 59" wide.
i just hate the 45* angle of the usual 4P setup.

[LunarLoveLust]

O.o

My god, so many replies... thank you all very much for your comments.

I believe i'll stick with a TV with S-Video in, should be easy on the budget. But if for some odd reason I'm lucky enough to find someone getting rid of a cabinet, maybe i'll just use that

Just remember, design the cabinet for what you want to use it for. If you aren't planning on playing Tron or Front Line a great deal, maybe you can skip the spinner. It sounds like you already have your "dream machine" in mind, and a goal set-- Playing side-scrolling beat-em-ups. You probably wouldn't want to install a flight yoke or a steering wheel if you hate Final Lap and S.T.U.N. Runner.

That's the thing, i've never been able to play these games so i'm not really sure if I want those parts or not.

Wow! I looked into the hagstrom ke72 and it looks amazing, but i'm not really sure how it all works. I guess I mean..... bah I cant describe it, is there one part that's hooked up right into the computer? Or do multiple things go through it?

(For example, a soundcard is installed by plugging one cord into somewhere in a computer, and then has multiple inputs)

72 inputs looks like more than enough for what i'd need I'm guessing I solder (spelled correctly?) each wire to each input and then connect the wire to whichever button on my controll panel?

I honestly have no clue how to solder, do you think hagstrom could sell the KE72 with wires already soldered on? Or should I try and find someone in my area that could help me with that part?


Again, thank you everyone for your help. Night and TalkingOctopus, great plans

[pointdablame]

I have an extra cab if you're in the New Jersey area. Just a head's up. PM me if you're interested.

[TalkingOctopus]

I wish I had a picture of my wiring, but I have no digital camera.  I am working on borrowing one.  Anyhow, wiring to the hagstrom ke72-t, (Get the -t for the trackball interface)  is remarkably easy.  In fact there is no soldering involved.  Here is what I order from hagstrom:

KE72-T
2 IOX36 Breakout Board
2 KE-MM6-mini cables
KE-TBH3 CABLE

Check under accessories: http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/accessories.html

I used quick disconnects for the buttons joysticks ect... which connected to the break out boards.  Wires are screwed into the break out boards. Each board holds up to 40 wires, including grounds.

 The break out boards are screwed onto the underside of my cp, using pcb feet.  I have the encoder screwed into the cp box that is underneath the cp.  An IDE cable (which come with the break out boards) attach from the break out board to the encoder.  The KE-TBH3 CABLE attaches from the trackball to the encoder.   And the other 2 cables attach to the encoder and go into the standard keyboard and mouse port in a computer.  It is really very easy.

The hagstrom encoder maybe rather expensive, (I spent about ~$200) but I feel it was worth it.

I hope you were able to follow my long explanation of my wiring.

[railz]

I'm starting to build my cab too. If you'd like to exchange notes and experiences, PM me.

[hulkster]

well i just finished my very first cab about 2 weeks ago or so...and when i first began i was all wanting to build a "4 player cp with trackball, spinner...etc."  but its a lot of work unless youve done it before.  i could easily make a 4 player now, but when i started a 2 player cp is best if its your first.  i know ill build another one some day and that one will be the "ultimate" but for your first project, i would recommend staying simple but effective.  

[TalkingOctopus]

No - Hulkster I think you are perhaps giving misleading advice.  If you go slow and have good planning you should be able to complete a 4-player cp without a hitch.

[hulkster]

true, i re-read my post and i made it seem like it wasnt possible.  thats not what i meant at all, but i was just saying that tackling a smaller project might be a little easier and better to start out with, thats all i was saying.  just speaking on personal experience....when i started i didnt know anything about all this, and if i were take on a big 4 player cp with all the wiring and all that....dont know, just seemed overwhelming to me.  maybe im just dumb  

[TalkingOctopus]

The wiring is not hard there is just alot of it.  You are not dumb...it takes alot of time, patience  and effort to get one of these things up and running.  It took me almost 3 months to finish my arcade.

[hooded_paladin]

especially using an I-Pac, the wiring may look complicated but it isn't if you concentrate and stay organized.  One trick I learned to keep it neat when I built my DDR pads - connect one wire, verify that it works and is correct, then tape it down with masking tape.  It's easy to take off if necessary and just helps with the big rats nest of wires that a CP generates.

One big thing that gets new people with 4-player CP's is planning the controls layout.  You may end up rarely using some components, some controls get in the way of others, etc.  Warrant yourself enough space, and give yourself time to think it over.

[BombProofPlane]

I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about here -_-;; sorry but could you describe what you mean by interlaced and 480p and such? I was considering hooking up my PS2 here and there to the cabinet but that's about it.

Also, where could I get an old arcade monitor? And would they look good while running other systems running through a computer? (Such as NES, Genesis, SNES and other emulators)

Thanks again for all the help

what i meant is that when you run things through a tv no matter what resolution it is it will be 525 lines interlaced

through an arcade monitor the majority of game you will play will be under 400 lines of resolution and when its in that range it will be displayed progressively

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

this tells whats the difference between progressive and interlaced

with a ps2 you dont need a high res monitor but to connect it you should use a transcoder

this changes a component video signal to a rgb signal

if the signal going in is interlaced (like 99% of ps2 games and if it is you didn't hold down x and O) then you'll get a sweet image that is far superior to anything but seeing it on a good hdtv type device

and console games will look great no consoles you mention break that 400 line barrier

look for those cherry master monitors on ebay a 25 inch is 180 buy it now

sad part is a whole cab with that monitor can be found for less than 400

[SirPoonga]

Anyone mind helping me out?

1. I was hoping I could play just about every game that MAME has to offer, and i've noticed i'd need a trackball and a "spinner" (I believe that is what it's called) anything else i'd need?

If you play those games, yeah.

2. I'm trying to find some good plans for a 4 player controll panel, but I havent had much luck, any suggestions of where I could find that?

I just have to ask this question, do you have the room for 4 player control panel and will you play the few 4 player games in mame enough to warrant one?  Or will you put other emus in there or a dreamcast that warrants more than 2 players?

3. What is the best type of monitor to use for my own cabinet? I don't have much money (I have over a year to save tho) but i've narrowed it down to a TV with S-Video in or a "Wells Gardner" arcade monitor

it's more of a personal prefereneces thing.
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/monitors.shtml

4. Is there a specific type of video card anyone can suggest for me to use with the computer going into my cabinet?

Don't need anything fancy, sorta depends ont he monitor you choose.

5. Due to the fact that my controlls would have alot of buttons, I was thinking about doing a multiple joystick hack and connecting them all to my computer by USB, is this a good idea?

A couple of possible solutions.  Hack a bunch of cheap USB gamepads or get an IPAC4 (http://www.ultimarc.com).

[Gromet]

Lunar,

I am posting a pic of my CP, I'm very happy with the design.  I basically started with the same mentality, I wanted to be able to play EVERYTHING.  This is just not possible with a static CP.  Perhaps with a rotating or swappable system like 1up's.  So, for my first cab I decided to go with a CP minus  a steering wheel and flight yoke.  Star wars wasn't an issure for me, since I have dedicated original Star Wars and Empire Cabs.  You would be suprised how good you can get at playing games like Pole Position or Spy Hunter with a spinner as your wheel.

Anyway, My Panel has two layers, the lower layer consists of 4 8-Ways with seven buttons for player 1 and 2, Player 3 and 4 have three buttons each (have yet to find a 3 or 4 player game that needed more), and a Happs 2 1/4" Trackball in the center, with the left and right buttons on the corresponding side of the trackball.

The second layer has a 4-way with two buttons on each side (I went with two on each side for games like Cliff hanger - one for hands one for feet), I have an Oscar Disks of Tron, Push/Pull Spinner, and an original Tron Trigger Stick.

I also have an Act Labs Light gun wich I love and am extreamly happy with.

I felt this setup gave me the widest array of games to be able to play.  And the CP is very comfortable to play, having the second layer raised keeps the trackball nad joystick handles out of the way when using any of the second layer controls, it's very nice.

Sorry for the poor pic, my digital camera sucks... It's a Digital Video camera greatly lacking in the still picture department...

Best of luck...

[Gromet]

P.S.  Since the CP is only about 36" wide so there are also buttons on either side for pinball games, and they are quite comfortable.  the reach is not bad at all...  my wife and eight year old daughter have no problems....