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Author Topic: New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review  (Read 17175 times)

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Xiaou2

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2003, 11:41:01 pm »

 Are you shure about that?  Maybe this tv has higher resolution than older models?   Theres definitely tv monitor hybrids that do - so this may be the case.  

 Weather or not the Ati knows this - and or auto interlaces is another story.    All I can say is that even at 1024*768 with flicker off - its a rock solid picture.  No jitter, flicker, dot crawl, jumpiness...ect.

 As for display technology... I believe that most older arcade monitors have been replaced with newer versions that preform differently.  

 Also... I find it hard to belive that monitors havnt changed in dot pitch much from say Pacman to the present..IE:  9200s.   Maybe we are taking the difference betweem Low res monitors and med to high-res.    In such a case... using a med res monitor instead of a low-res monitor would definitly change the look of the game.

 Id like to see someone pop a picture of turbo out of a 9200 that looks anywhere close to the cololrs and look of the one in the pic I posted.    The pic will most likely be too clean and wont blend the pixels and colors correctly.


KevSteele

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2003, 08:02:04 am »
Sorry I didn't get the Turbo or Spy Hunter shots with the  D9200/ArcadeVGA done yesterday (family matters), and I'm afraid I won't be able to get them done today as well (that darn family thing again ;-)

I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow morning. Sorry!

Kevin "Yes, I have a life, darnit!" Steele
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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2003, 12:25:34 pm »
I would be surprised if you could call up a convergence grid but NOT have any way to adjust it.

Those of us who own bigscreen or widescreen Rear Projectors know all about the fun that is the 64 point convergence, and even better are the service-modes (the 'special modes' referred to above) where you have to calibrate each Gun directly..Ahhh the joys of owning technology!

For what its worth, on a curved-survace display convergence to me would almost be an afterthought....as would be geometry issues.   its an arcade monitor, you're not watching movies on it....unless there are major geometry issues (scrolling seems warped in one spot all the time, etc) I'd just ignore it.

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2003, 12:30:15 pm »
Just curious how you handle this beast of monitor without, you know, getting electrocuted and dying :)
Can you safely grab the frame?

Yes, you can safely grab the frame (and the tube) -- the big red wire is the anode, and that's the part with 20-30,000 volts. You definitely do not want to grab the wire and the frame at the same time!

Once you've got the monitor installed in a cab it's no longer a threat.


I thought the D9200 had a self-discharge feature?  Not that you would ever want to test that to see how well it is working.   :P

KevSteele

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2003, 04:27:13 pm »
I would be surprised if you could call up a convergence grid but NOT have any way to adjust it.

The convergence grid is generated  by a program called NTEST, not the monitor itself.

Like I mentioned, it's not major problem but it is noticable, at least if you know where to look. Of course, I'm notoriously picky when it comes to monitors. It's not a major problem -- especially during gameplay.

I'm just coming at the whole thing from the perspective of a computer monitor owner, not an arcade monitor owner, which means I am perhaps unfairly pointing out things that cannot be overcome or avoided in an arcade monitor.

Kevin
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2003, 06:44:46 pm »
Are you shure about that?  Maybe this tv has higher resolution than older models?   Theres definitely tv monitor hybrids that do - so this may be the case.  

If it's NTSC or PAL video standard, which it is when using composite or Svideo inputs, then it is interlaced.  It's part of the standard.

Quote
Weather or not the Ati knows this - and or auto interlaces is another story.    All I can say is that even at 1024*768 with flicker off - its a rock solid picture.  No jitter, flicker, dot crawl, jumpiness...ect.

It's still interlaced and scaled at 1024x768.  Some of the newer graphics cards can do some tricks to reduce flicker and make text more readable, but they trade off other desireable attributes like sharpness and color accuracy to do so.

Quote
As for display technology... I believe that most older arcade monitors have been replaced with newer versions that preform differently.  

 Also... I find it hard to belive that monitors havnt changed in dot pitch much from say Pacman to the present..IE:  9200s.   Maybe we are taking the difference betweem Low res monitors and med to high-res.    In such a case... using a med res monitor instead of a low-res monitor would definitly change the look of the game.

As I stated, the shape of the pixels may be a bit different, but the size and amount of space between them has remained fairly consistent.  A .83 dot pitch is mucho coarse compared to the standard .25 (or better) of a PC monitor.  Also keep in mind that these numbers usually go up relative to overall screen size.

Quote
Id like to see someone pop a picture of turbo out of a 9200 that looks anywhere close to the cololrs and look of the one in the pic I posted.    The pic will most likely be too clean and wont blend the pixels and colors correctly.

No offense, but that monitor looks to be a "hurting unit".  If that thing is as old as I think it is, it's not really a fair comparison with a fresh out of the box unit.  I spent a ton of cash on Turbo in my youth and never remembered it looking like that :).  Also, keep in mind that you are looking at a vertically oriented game.  Showing this one horizontally and trying to compare the two isn't going to cut it.

RandyT

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2003, 05:52:30 pm »
Okay, I know I promised some pics of Spy Hunter on the D9200, but I got busy, and the god of delayed promises has smote me down:

My D9200 monitor has died. It looks to be a bad board, and I'll do my best to get those pics up once I've got the new board set installed, but it won't be for a week or so.

You know you're got too much emotionally invested in your hobby when an equipment failure ruins your day...  :'(

(Sigh...)

Kevin
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2003, 06:45:06 pm »
Okay, I know I promised some pics of Spy Hunter on the D9200, but I got busy, and the god of delayed promises has smote me down:

My D9200 monitor has died. It looks to be a bad board, and I'll do my best to get those pics up once I've got the new board set installed, but it won't be for a week or so.

You know you're got too much emotionally invested in your hobby when an equipment failure ruins your day...  :'(

(Sigh...)

Kevin


Does this affect your opinion/review?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2003, 06:45:29 pm by CitznFish »
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desmatic

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2003, 07:59:10 pm »
There is a snap shot of spyhunter on a D9200 on my website.

Quote
I think people mis-read into the whole "authentic' thing... as most older arcade games will never look correct on a 9200.  The reason being a much smaller dot pitch... (and Im sure there are other factors as well with the older display technology they use)

The scanline of the D9200 changes when going from 15kHz to 25kHz.  At 15kHz, the pixel size is identical to traditional 15kHz arcade monitors.  At 25kHz, the pixel size is identical to traditional 25kHz arcade monitors.


The pixel size of MAME games on a TV (480 interlaced) is identical to the pixel size of MAME on a D9200 at 31.5 kHz.  The only difference between the two displays is the refresh rate, otherwise they are identical.

The pixel size of MAME on a TV at 15kHz (not interlaced) is identical to the pixel size of MAME on a D9200 at 15kHz.
 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2003, 08:04:54 pm by desmatic »

KevSteele

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2003, 09:17:06 pm »
Does this affect your opinion/review?

Yup, at least a little. I'm going to wait until I get the replacement boards and see how it goes.

Bad: Monitor board went bad.
Good: No wait for tech support, very helpful, and (hopefully) quick turnaround.

I'll update the monitor review once the matter's all settled.

Kevin
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

desmatic

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2003, 09:39:49 pm »
I noticed something curious in your review.  It looks like you were running your monitor at 37.5 kHz.  If so, that's a very dangerous frequency to run a d9200 at.  Maybe that's why it died prematurely.

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2003, 10:27:35 pm »
I didn't notice that, but that's the output I was getting from the ArcadeVGA card. I'm surprised.

Things that make you go hmmm....

Thanks for pointing that out, it's one more thing I'll have to look into!

Kevin
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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2003, 11:24:52 pm »
I noticed something curious in your review.  It looks like you were running your monitor at 37.5 kHz.  If so, that's a very dangerous frequency to run a d9200 at.  Maybe that's why it died prematurely.

Ummm......isn't that the 800x600 mode that everyone seems to run unofficially?

RandyT

desmatic

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2003, 01:20:02 am »
It hurts my brain.  In fact, I need a beer just to think about it.  Why so many insist on running 800x600 is truly beyond me.  Aside from the fact that it is clearly overclocking the monitor to a very dangerous level, the D9200 only has 640 triads, so at 800x600 1 pixel = .8 triads.  This means that what would normally be a beautifully clear image, is simply blurry and goofed.  I just don't get it.  Maybe someone can explain it to me, I'm struggling with the allure of it.  I'm under the impression that many are doing it, though, and that the premature deaths of many precious D9200s are inevitable.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2003, 01:27:13 am by desmatic »

KevSteele

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2003, 07:23:29 am »
You may be on to something -- I was running at 640x480, with only occasional trips to 800x600 for testing (which was when those pics were taken).

However, in setting up my new computer, XP insisted on bumping things up to 800x600, with no way to get back to 640x480 (at least, until I installed Multires). Unfortunately, this meant that the monitor was running at 800x600 for a long stretch.

The other thing that happened, however, is that I moved the monitor. Only about 10 feet into the gameroom, but it was movement, and that may have jarred something loose.

Basically, the monitor was working perfectly, then I unplugged it and moved it and then it was dead (well, not dead, but on life support.)

I'm curious about how long any D9200 owner has run this monitor at 800x600? Could that have been the cause?

Kevin
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 10:16:15 am by kevsteele »
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2003, 07:35:01 am »


However, in setting up my new computer, XP insisted on bumping things up to 800x600, with no way to get back to 640x480 (at least, until I installed Multires). Unfortunately, this meant that the monitor was running at 800x600 for a long stretch.

Kevin

You can still get 640x480 on XP without any special software, it is in the standard video area, look for a button that says "List All Modes", I believe it is under "Advanced" and on the adaptor tab. I am not in front of an XP comp at the moment, otherwise I could say for sure, but I use 640x480 under XP fairly frequently.
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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2003, 09:59:59 am »
My D9200 failed in the same manner as Kevin's after only about 10 hours.  I had never used 800x600 at that point.

However, I use 800x600 occasionally now (for vector games and for Windows when getting a new rom), so if this really will damage the D9200, I definitely want to know about it. :)

Wade

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2003, 11:44:52 am »
My D9200 failed in the same manner as Kevin's after only about 10 hours.  I had never used 800x600 at that point.

However, I use 800x600 occasionally now (for vector games and for Windows when getting a new rom), so if this really will damage the D9200, I definitely want to know about it. :)

Wade

It could quite easily destroy your monitor.  It's well over the recommended operating frequencies which means you are deffinitely taking a gamble.

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2003, 08:08:06 pm »
Finally, as promised, a pic of Spy Hunter on the D9200:



The D9200 is working like a charm now, btw.  ;D
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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Re:New Wells-Gardner D9200 Monitor Review
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2003, 10:40:48 am »
REVIEW UPDATE

I've updated my written review of the D9200 to add in the experiences I had with the board failure and in dealing with WG tech support.

http://retroblast.com/reviews.html

All's well that ends well, I suppose, but it's never a good feeling when a product goes belly-up after only two weeks...

Kevin
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