I need mouse buttons on my CP ;(

[jimmy2x2x]

I didn't think I would need them, but after using the CP for a couple of weeks, I definitely do!

Mainly for PC games, many of them play fine without mouse buttons, but require them for menu navigation - peggle etc.


Whats the best way to integrate them:

Have them as a separate set of buttons - maybe hidden?

Add mouse buttons to existing buttons so they have 2 functions?

Not really sure, but I don't want extra buttons on the top of the CP for something that isnt used a gaming button.

[leapinlew]

I think you can use a piece of software to map mouse keys to keyboard keys.

http://www.autohotkey.com/

[EVEGames]

I think you can use a piece of software to map mouse keys to keyboard keys.

http://www.autohotkey.com/

JoyToKey can also map mouse keys to keyboard keys
http://electracode.com/4/joy2key/JoyToKey%20English%20Version.htm
...but I don't think that answers your question... your question is,
Whats the best way to integrate them:

"Have them as a separate set of buttons - maybe hidden?"
...I don't know where you would hide them, and how convenient would it be to use them when they are hidden?

"Add mouse buttons to existing buttons so they have 2 functions?"
...Now you need some kind of shift-function to engage the mouse buttons, so picture it... you're using the trackball as a mouse, so your right hand is unavailable.  Now you need to engage a shift key, like Player1 Start, and reach over and press the shifted left-click button.  Do-able, but convenient?

"Not really sure, but I don't want extra buttons on the top of the CP for something that isnt used a gaming button."
...But why wouldn't they be used as gaming buttons?    By default, in MAME, the left mouse button is commonly mapped as an alternate to button 1.  Example, the Fire button in Centipede.  I like to use my left click button, which is right next to my trackball, instead of reaching up to Player 1 Button 1, when playing trackball games.

And keep in mind, whatever encoder you are using for your trackball most likely has dedicated terminals for Mouse button 1 and 2 already, I know the Optipac does.  So if you go with dedicated buttons, you should not need any software solution to get your mapping.

-EVEGames

[jimmy2x2x]

Regarding hiding the buttons, my CP has an accessible underside and I was thinking of maybe mounting the buttons under there, they would be available for menu navigation in windows applications, and entering the configuration screen in Maximus etc, but not obvious to casual users of the cab. This might be my best solution as it would leave the CP uncluttered.

Why wouldn't they be used as gaming buttons? Well I would prefer users of the cab not to be entering configuration menus and the like, also some emulators behave strangely with mouse clicks, zinc and model2emulator spring to mind.  I feel that mouse buttons should be kept separate from the main controls for these reasons.

I have a utrak trackball, its the older usb type without button support.  I might speak to Andy about this and see how much he would charge me to upgrade to the current interface with button support, or I could hack a mouse up!

EDIT: It appears that my spinner has support for 2 mouse buttons

[severdhed]

i have my player 1 buttons 5 and 6 wired up as mouse buttons.  I too have a utrak trackball, but i opted not to buy the usb interface from ultimarc because it does not support mouse buttons, so i bought an optiwiz from GGG and it is awesome. they work fine in mame just like any other buttons, but when i am at the front-end or need to do something in windows, they are right there and easy to use. i do not use any other emulators though, so i don't know how that would be affected.

[DaveMMR]

If you are using an encoder that supports it, shifted buttons and Joy2Key may be the best way to go IMO.    This way you can choose a selection when you need to, without the added clutter.   

I use shifted buttons (P2 START + one of the P2 buttons) on my panel for occasional admin functions (like "pause" and "menu") and it works great.

[jimmy2x2x]

Do those shifted functions get triggered by unintentionally sometimes?

[DaveMMR]

Do those shifted functions get triggered by unintentionally sometimes?

As long you think ahead, then it's unlikely.   For example, I wouldn't make both START buttons a command or two action buttons.    But with the START button being the "Shift", most people don't usually lean on any other buttons when pressing start. 

I've never had a problem with that set-up.

[EVEGames]

Do those shifted functions get triggered by unintentionally sometimes?

As long you think ahead, then it's unlikely.   For example, I wouldn't make both START buttons a command or two action buttons.    But with the START button being the "Shift", most people don't usually lean on any other buttons when pressing start. 

I've never had a problem with that set-up.

I have that kind of set-up - Player 1 Start is my Shift - and I have problems with it all the time.  It can happen any time you are playing a two-player game... player 2 is mashing away at the buttons, your guy (player 1) loses a life and you need to tap Player 1 Start to get back into the game.  If you don't tell player 2 to stop playing for a second, there's a good chance you will unintentionally trigger a shifted function, as you hit shift and he hits a random button at the same time.  And if you are using a shifted function to "insert quarters", you really have to tell player 2 to stop while you do that, or you're hosed. 
There are ways around this... like don't map any shifted functions to any of Player 2's buttons, or have a dedicated shift button other than Player 1 Start.

-EVEGames

[jimmy2x2x]

After some experimenting and careful consideration, I have decided to class the mouse buttons as exclusive admin buttons.

2 buttons will be mounted under my CP for LMB/RMB along with a couple more (TAB etc..)

Thanks for your input guys, but shifted buttons aren't the right route for me.

Too much scope for accidental triggering of unwanted input and I have plenty of free inputs available to cover my requirements.

My thinking is that hidden admin buttons are better than shifted visible ones.

Hope I have made the right choice!

[DaveMMR]

I have that kind of set-up - Player 1 Start is my Shift - and I have problems with it all the time.  It can happen any time you are playing a two-player game... player 2 is mashing away at the buttons, your guy (player 1) loses a life and you need to tap Player 1 Start to get back into the game.  If you don't tell player 2 to stop playing for a second, there's a good chance you will unintentionally trigger a shifted function, as you hit shift and he hits a random button at the same time.  And if you are using a shifted function to "insert quarters", you really have to tell player 2 to stop while you do that, or you're hosed.  
There are ways around this... like don't map any shifted functions to any of Player 2's buttons, or have a dedicated shift button other than Player 1 Start.

-EVEGames

The problem is that you have the buttons that trigger the function the OPPOSITE of the start button you're using for shift.

My shift is Start Player 2 and only the Player 2 Buttons are the ones that trigger any function.   Pressing start usually means you're not playing anymore and have no need to pound on your own buttons.  (BTW - This is not only by choice but by design.   My buttons are hooked up to the U360 and, as far as I know, one can't shift the other's buttons and vice-versa.  As you pointed out, it's better that way anyhow.)

2 buttons will be mounted under my CP for LMB/RMB along with a couple more (TAB etc..)

Thanks for your input guys, but shifted buttons aren't the right route for me.

Too much scope for accidental triggering of unwanted input and I have plenty of free inputs available to cover my requirements.

I bought a Radio Shack button for "Exit" (used to be shifted but way too much trouble explaining to people how to quit out and that DID lead to accidental presses like entering the menu, etc.)   You can get them pretty small so they don't take up much real estate (unlike a regular button).  

[DeLuSioNal29]

You could always add a 4 way on the top somewhere?  Any pics of your control panel?  I made the two buttons for the 4 way the mouse buttons.  I can easily assign them in MAME to be buttons 1 and 2 along with the normal 1 and 2 on the 8 ways.  My console emulators use the 8 ways so I don't have any issues assigning those normal buttons.

D

[jimmy2x2x]

This is where I am at the moment



Its a scrap piece of wood which I am using until I finalise the CP

I am thinking of possibly moving the spinner to underneath P2 joystick to give a little more room for Golden Tee, boxing off the underside of the extrusion where the trackball is and having p1 coin/start + 'P' button of the left wall of this box, p2 coin/start on the right side, mouse buttons on the left underside, 2 admin on the right underside

the 'P' button will pause in game, or when held down for 3 seconds will exit the current emu, held down for 5 seconds in Maximus it will shut down the cab.

[EVEGames]

The problem is that you have the buttons that trigger the function the OPPOSITE of the start button you're using for shift.

My shift is Start Player 2 and only the Player 2 Buttons are the ones that trigger any function.   Pressing start usually means you're not playing anymore and have no need to pound on your own buttons.  (BTW - This is not only by choice but by design.   My buttons are hooked up to the U360 and, as far as I know, one can't shift the other's buttons and vice-versa.  As you pointed out, it's better that way anyhow.)

Very true, Dave, and that's a good solution.  My problem is, I have Shifted values for every button on my control panel (including my pinball flippers and plunger button).  It may seem over-the-top, but if you like Commodore64 or Amiga games like I do, you really need a full set of Function keys (F1 - F12).  Before someone points out that C64 only went up to F8, which is true, I use a C64 emulator which requires F10 to get into the menu (to swap disks), and WinUAE requires F12 to do the same.  You also commonly need to enter 'Y' or 'N', and the numbers 0 - 9.  The down side to all this?  Sometimes Player 2 accidentally triggers something funky in MAME when Player 1 hits Start.  The upside?  I rarely ever need to pull out a keyboard, even when running computer emulators. 

-EVEGames

[DaveMMR]

Well then, yeah, you need to shift the whole lot of them (which, to me, is still better than a cluttered panel but I can see the problem there).

I have not researched this but I wonder if anyone ever thought about an "on-screen" keyboard for these emulators for the sake of arcade cabs.  This way, you hit one button and an on-screen C64 keyboard pops up for those keys you hit once or twice during a game.  Or another solution, being able to map individual buttons for a particular game.  I can't imagine wanting to play "Maniac Mansion" or similar on the cab, it can be useful for action games that need the occasional keyboard interaction.   

I don't know - just thinking out loud there.

[EVEGames]

I've wondered about on-screen keyboards as well.  How well they work from within the various emulators, and how you would call them up and close them down, I would be very curious.

[markronz]

Well, I can tell you what I did with my CP, as I also went through this same internal struggle.   I just didn't want dedicated mouse buttons on the CP, and yet, I still wanted them available.  I also didn't like having any of my player buttons be dedicated mouse buttons.  While MAME supports mouse clicks, some other emulators aren't as friendly.

My solution I came up with, was to use a DPDT switch.   I have this DPDT switch hidden.  Mine is behind the bottom coin door but, obviously, you could hide it wherever you wanted.   I've wired this DPDT switch up to Player 1, buttons 5 and 6.   
-  When the DPDT switch is in one direction, the 5 and 6 buttons are the normal keyboard button presses that I have configured in all of my emulators.   
-  When the DPDT switch is in the other position, the 5 and 6 buttons are then mouse buttons.

That way, when I want to use the mouse for admin stuff or whatever, I just flip the switch and away I go.  Otherwise it's flipped to the other side, and everything is just normal game controls.

You get the idea....

[Franco B]

Great idea 

[jimmy2x2x]

How do you handle both grounds (from the mouse input and keyboard input) the dpdt switch would only handle inputs wouldn't it?