Control panel planning (2 u360s and buttons)

[kronic24601]

I also had a hard time deciding what to do for mounting.  Bottom Mount provides access to the Joysick, which you will need from time to time to re-grease and what-not, If I were to top mount, and then apply artwork, I would have to tear the artwork off to get to the sticks.

So, I did the perfect compromise (IMHO).

I bought a few thin pieces of steel sheets from my local hardware store. I cut them to size. Then I routed out the top of the panel to fit those metal sheets (which were about an inch taller, and .5" wider than the u360,). I drilled 4 holes and installed some bolts flush into the top of the metal. This way I have a permanent metal mount, and I can do a bottom mount that is only 1/8" from the top.

It's pretty much the poor mans way of doing a metal control panel. Best of both worlds.

[ragnar]

Oh .... ummm .... maintenance.

So, what kind of grease do I need for a u360 and where is it to be applied?  Do I just need access to the bottom of the joystick?  I just don't know why top moiunting would make maintenance more difficult.

[kronic24601]

hmmm ... well I don't have it in from of me, but I think if you have the washer on TOP of the plexi, and not under it (like mine) than you should be able to remove the shaft and get to the bushing.

I use MOLYKOTEŽ 44 Medium, it's kinda pricey, but I got a good deal on it used. It comes lubricated, but depending on use, you will need to re-apply after a while.

It goes in between the metal busing (which is like half of sphere) and the "cup" in the plastic molded holder. (not official words).

[severdhed]

if you top mount your joystick, you are going to have to cover it with something to keep it from being ugly. (artwork, plexiglass, adhesive vinyl, etc.)  so assuming you have a top mounted joystick in an MDF panel, with plexiglass over top, in order to take your joystick out, you would have to remove all of the buttons in your panel to get the plexiglass off., and any artwork you may or may not have between the vinyl and MDF.  if the artwork is glued on, more than likely it would be ruined in the process.

[ragnar]

Yes, I'm doing the dust cap over the plexiglass.  I honestly wouldn't mind a wear pattern forming due to it.  It would just ad to the patina.

Do the u360s come with a manual explaining how to lubricate it?

I plan on eventually getting vinyl.  If I understand correctly, there is a sheet of film covering the adhesive so I could install it unglued.  That is the tentative plan for now, just having the Plexiglas hold it in place.

I have Lionel trains and some lubricants.  One is heavy for gears, the other is light for the wheel axles on the trains.  Could I use this thicker gear oil on the bushing?

[severdhed]

i've never lubriacted my u360s and they have been working fine for a while now.  i see lizardlick sells joystick grease, i've never used it though.

http://www.lizardlick.com/Dow-Molycoat-44-Joystick-Grease-150g-Tube_p_38.html

[dawolv]

Ive also thought about how I will mount my u360s, Im thinking I will top mount mine since the PCB is easily removable from the bottom whether bottom or top mounted.
Im guessing any failures would occur on the PCB (USB overvoltage etc). I dont see many problems arising from the actual metal stick?


EDIT: LOL I was just tinkering with my U360, I can get to everything from the bottom including the stick (You just have to first remove the PCB then the Magnet, then the C-Clip and be ready for that spring to bounce), so in theory top mounting would be perfectly fine since you can get to the PCB and Stick    

[kronic24601]

I personally, have customized my u360's to include an LED light, in doing this process, the included grease sorta dried out. However, there is another thread in which people are complaining about metal shavings. Which is mostly due to a shim piece if an old stick, and if newer, people need to get the new bushing from Andy to fix that. However, it's recommended you re-lube 1-2 years after purchase, depending on usage.

Really any 100% silicone grease will work, but the lizard lick stuff is what i use. It gives you SOO much, you certainly will never run out. There is no manual, do lubricate, but it's honestly very simple. The parts that rub (friction) need lubrication after awhile, or you will eat into the plastic/metal shavings, etc...

You could absolutely install it unglued, but as serverhed mentioned, you'd have to remove ALL the buttons to get to it. That would be a pain.

My biggest concern, was if in a few years Andy comes out with the next big thing, that won't fit this plastic mold. Like the Rotary u360! (doesn't really exist). But ... I may never touch it.

Just remember if you top mount you REALLY REALLY should BONDO the top smooth. In which case, you won't be taking anything off anyway. If you do not, and you apply artwork (sticky) it will stick to the uneven surface and looked jacked! Don't do it! (I wish I had some common sense when I did mine...)

[ragnar]

If I don't glue, I could always layer it as follows from, the bottom up:

1) wood
2) wax paper
3) graphic
4) plexiglass or equivilent

That should precent any "dents" from forming.

I do want to make the joysticks removable without destroying the artwork.  I have thought about using drywall mud or wood putty.  Wood putty is probably less prone to crackign which is hte real issue I would think.  What is needed is a filler that can be removed.  Painters epoxy?

[mgb]

If it were me, I think I would either mount the sticks from the bottom (with longer shafts) or use metal plates so it is effectively like mounting to a metal control panel.
With a plate, you cut out a square section of the wood, route out so the plate sits flush. Then your stick is mounted from underneith so that you can pull it out if needed.
You can check 'em out here http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=443
These also have a slight flange to them so there is room to put the dust washer where its supposed to be, under the artwork.

On a side note, I mounted a Sanwa JLW under a piece of 3/4" for a mockup (with no routing) and the shafts were long enough that they played fine, (a little low for my taste, but they would work.

[ragnar]

Just an update.

It is on.  It is so on ....

I found a good deal on a refurbed 23" LCD.  It is ordered.  I have officially passe the point of no return.

Hoping to order the u360s soon.  My issue now is, should I do a 4 player cab?  Why?  DAMN YOU NBA JAM!  I've been spending more time playing that on a keyboard than getting things figured out.  I'm going to probably do something along the KNeiviel woody but with a more graphical CP.  I'm having a hard time deciding on stains/wood types.  Minor but I need to get through it.  I'll be doing a more curvy version of the woody KNeivel did though.  Also, I do not know if I will be doing stain or paint on the front of the cab.  I'm not sure if I want to do a full on woody.

PS: Just a thank you to the moderator for linking the Mameroom design software (http://www.mameroom.com/files/CPD_Setup.zip).  I just noticed.  Much appreciated.

[EvilNuff]

...I'm going to probably do something along the KNeiviel woody but with a more graphical CP.  I'm having a hard time deciding on stains/wood types.  Minor but I need to get through it.  I'll be doing a more curvy version of the woody KNeivel did though.  Also, I do not know if I will be doing stain or paint on the front of the cab.  I'm not sure if I want to do a full on woody....

Have you checked out knievels other cabs?  He has 2 others using similar form factor to the woody with graphics and his evolution is a bit more rounded:
http://knievel.webs.com/theevolution.htm

[ragnar]

...I'm going to probably do something along the KNeiviel woody but with a more graphical CP.  I'm having a hard time deciding on stains/wood types.  Minor but I need to get through it.  I'll be doing a more curvy version of the woody KNeivel did though.  Also, I do not know if I will be doing stain or paint on the front of the cab.  I'm not sure if I want to do a full on woody....

Have you checked out knievels other cabs?  He has 2 others using similar form factor to the woody with graphics and his evolution is a bit more rounded:
http://knievel.webs.com/theevolution.htm

Thanks for the link.  I din't know about it.  After looking them all through, and showing my wife some of them, she is most agreeable to the woody.  This is going to be place in the great room 9where everyone hangs out) so I need her agreement on things.

[EvilNuff]

Check knievel's woody thread here in the project announcements forum.  I shared a google sketchup of his cab plans (as best as I could reconstruct them).  The woody is, imo, going to be the hardest of his to do because with the wood grains showing you have no room for mistakes.

[ragnar]

Check knievel's woody thread here in the project announcements forum.  I shared a google sketchup of his cab plans (as best as I could reconstruct them).  The woody is, imo, going to be the hardest of his to do because with the wood grains showing you have no room for mistakes.

I've done alot of work with wood granted this is my first use of a router.  I honestly am not intimated by anything that I have to do to get this built.  I'm mostly worried about installing the marquee :-)

The nice thing about what Kneivel has done is provided dimensions.  I think the base was 20" deep and he said that there are no tipping type issues which was one of my fears.  I have to be sure that I can get it through a 29" door jam though.  I might have to make the keyboard detachable which was my intent, but I have to make it easily detachable which was not my intent.

I have to delay things now.  We had an unexpected flat tire.  So the plans to get new tires in October were changed to today.  That's fine though.  I have to decide on button configuration.

Thanks!  I'll keep this thread alive until I get things tarted in the Project announcement thread.

[EvilNuff]

I'm a big fan of sketchup...its another way for me to "measure twice cut once" as far as planning and your 29" door jam.  As far as tipping, even without him mentioning that I'm not terribly worried.  The majority of the weight with an lcd cab is going to be low where the pc is and even worst case you could always add weight at the base.

My plans are delayed as well...my wife has agreed I can build a cab but not until we get a bigger house...so that first. 

[ragnar]

I'm a big fan of sketchup...its another way for me to "measure twice cut once" as far as planning and your 29" door jam.  As far as tipping, even without him mentioning that I'm not terribly worried.  The majority of the weight with an lcd cab is going to be low where the pc is and even worst case you could always add weight at the base.

My plans are delayed as well...my wife has agreed I can build a cab but not until we get a bigger house...so that first. 

My wife is a stay at home mom that runs in home day care.  She is trying to get her first job in about 5 years (special ed teacher).  I hope she gets it so I can keep the cabinet in the main room (where day car occurs) instead of off in a side room till day care ends.

Anyways, with the monitor, I can get almost everything planned.  I want the LCD to be as far back into the cabinet as is possible.  The KNeivel cab says that it is about 8" from the back.  I am shooting for 4-5".  I expect little to no wiggle room there.  The sides will be deeper though to provide support and provide a nice look.  The LCD will jsut be set in deeper is all.

[ragnar]

I'm about to start the admin panel.  That is, the panel between the monitor and the CP.  I am using Mala for purposes of discussion.  I have 2 u360s and an iPac2.  The iPac 2 will be used for all buttons.  The u360s are only being used for the joystick input data.

The admin panel will house the P1/P2 start and coin buttons.  So 4 buttons there.

Now, I am planning out the rest of the panel’s admin buttons.  I initially was going to do this:
Green = Enter
Yellow = Pause
Orange = Menu
Red = Escape

I can understand having the red escape button.  That is obivous.

For Green = Enter, is that actually needed?  I'm assuming this maps to the number 1.  But, couldn't I have Mala listen for any of the buttons on the P1/P2 area and have those act as Enter?  Would that require the iPac being reprogrammed for Mala use or could Mala actually listen to multiple buttons for enter?

Yellow = Pause.  How many people actually have pause?  It almost seems like a cheat.

As for Orange = Menu, I don't actually know what the purpose of that would be.  Isn't this something that would be used for actually configuring the software?  Adding/removing games, etc.

[mgb]

You will definately want the exit button for obvious reasons.
 I don't think of the pause as a cheat. If I'm playing a game and then I gotta take a leak, I see it as a needed button.

As far as menu and enter go, I dont see where you will really need those. Unless menu helps you in Mala (I don't know, I use Atomic Fe).

If you are planning on using menu (tab) and enter for mame setup, then why not just use a wireless keyboard.
Mame setup should just be once, but then if you do need to make tweaks later, just grab the wiress keyboard.

[ragnar]

Your thinking is in agreement with mine.

I can see your point with pause.  And exit is definitely needed.

I don't need menu but I might toss in a start button.  I'll have to ask on the Mala forum about that.

[EvilNuff]

I consider pause a requirement.  If you don't want to use it then just don't...but if you want guests to ever be able to play it a pause function is very useful.

[neil324]

I use the regular shafts with no routing and I'm fine with the length, but it might be too short for some.

I know what you mean.  I feel my shaft length is quite adequate.  However my wife likes them longer.

I admire your honesty.

[severdhed]

Here are my $.02 on admin buttons.  I think an Exit button is necessary, as well as a pause button.  there are no need for menu and enter buttons.  i run MaLa on both of my cabinets.  i have mala set to launch the game when i press the p1 start button.  in mame, player1 button 1 doubles as Enter.   when you say Menu button, is that for the MaLa menu, or the mame "tab" menu?  either way, dedicated buttons are a waste.  in mala, i either use the p2 start button, or the exit button to bring up the mala menu.  in mame, i use a shifted commands to bring up the tab menu (to keep people from doing it accidentally, nobody needs in there but me).  i like having a dedicated pause button, it is very handy.  i really like having a dedicated exit button as well, however there can be problems with it.  on my old 2 player cabinet, i had the exit button at the back left corner of the panel, so as long as i was player 1, nobody could reach it....this works very well.  however on my new 4player showcase, i put the exit button at the center of the panel, along the back edge.  this works well for symetry, however my 20month old son loves to press it....either while sitting at the barstool with me, or he walks around the back and reaches up and hits it. (i made the mistake of using a light up red button for exit, so naturally he is drawn to the one button that lights up)

i have been looking into an AHK script to make it so that you have to hold the button for 2 seconds to get it to exit, but that seems to only work with older versions of mame (im using .124).  i did not originally include a pause button on this panel, but i ended up mapping my exit button as pause, and you have to press pause + p1 start at the same time to exit.  it is'nt quite as obvious to guests, but it keeps accidental exits from happening

[ragnar]

Those are good thoughts.  I think at this point I am going to go with a 2 button admin panel.  Exit and pause.  I can always add more later though so it is not the end of the world.

I'm going to go look through Mala to see if commands like start can be mapped to multiple buttons.  That would be useful since I could basically make any button act as a start button.

[ragnar]

After looking through Mala, I verified that "start game" can only be mapped to one key.  Because of this, I am doing a start button so that no one gets confused.

So:
green = start
yellow = pause
red = exit

To be honest, I think that a big green button is more intuitive anyway.

[severdhed]

you can only have one key defined for any function in mala, however you can define multiple joystick inputs.  on my 2player cab, i had two u360s, and all of my buttons were connected using the u360 wire harness.  mala allowed me to set the start button on each stick as start game. this was pretty nice.

[ragnar]

you can only have one key defined for any function in mala, however you can define multiple joystick inputs.  on my 2player cab, i had two u360s, and all of my buttons were connected using the u360 wire harness.  mala allowed me to set the start button on each stick as start game. this was pretty nice.

I'm half thinking that I could just wire the P1 start and start game buttons in parallel.   I won't but it is a viable option.

A big red shutdown button will be on top of the cabinet so my wife can shut hte cabinet down at any time.

[EvilNuff]

...A big red shutdown button will be on top of the cabinet so my wife can shut hte cabinet down at any time.

Guess you'll have to play at 1am with headphones while she's asleep.

[ragnar]

...A big red shutdown button will be on top of the cabinet so my wife can shut hte cabinet down at any time.

Guess you'll have to play at 1am with headphones while she's asleep.

I'm lucky enough in that where I plan to put this thing, no one will hear it while sleeping.  And it's not the basement!

[mgb]

I don't really understand what you mean about a start button. Wouldn't you just use your p1 or p2 start button.
again I don't have much experience with mala but I did work on someone elses machine with mala and I could have sworn that the p1 start was used to start a game from the menu.

[ragnar]

I don't really understand what you mean about a start button. Wouldn't you just use your p1 or p2 start button.
again I don't have much experience with mala but I did work on someone elses machine with mala and I could have sworn that the p1 start was used to start a game from the menu.

With a dedicated start button, there is less confusion for when guests are over.  With 3 buttons, it is just like a stop light ..... green = go, yellow = pause and red = stop.

[Ginsu Victim]

  Huh?

[ragnar]

Huh?

I want the dedicated start button as opposed to using the P1 button because ....

red = stop ... exit game
yellow = yield .... pause game
green = go ... start game

It is just more intuitive this way for guests.  And I already own the buttons.

  ragnar

[mgb]

ok,
that makes sense.
I guess you can even just wire the green start button in parallel with your p1 start