Kampcool's Defender Original Restore

[kampcool]

DONT MAIM THEM, REJUVENATE THEM!

[opt2not]

Great job! That monitor image looks wonderful!

Keep up the good progress. 

[kampcool]

Removing the control panel and monitor screen, I found this:

[kampcool]

But I guess it wont be needed anymore......

[kampcool]

Heres those cheesy control panel pin connectors

Blown out joystick hardware

ashtray control panel

[kampcool]

 

That switch toggles the machine On/Off after plugin.

"Looks like they rigged it up so that you don't have to bend down to the bottom right corner to flip it on. There's  supposed to be a hole at the base of the cabinet in the back there, which the switch sticks out for you to access." <OPT2NOT QUOTE

Hey OPT2, I dont mean to jump around with my progress, but I am still "stumped" as to where this switch is supposed to go originally.  Here are some pix of my original cabinet backing, and I see no holes.  How did the arcade managers power everything up?  from the fuse box?  Does anyone know how this proceedure was done originally, on a Williams Defender?   Also, I keep powering up into "housekeeping", until I hit that plunger switch on the main board.

[kampcool]

Here is that plunger reset button that puts me into "game over",

[kampcool]

and once again, the on/off switch in question:

[kampcool]

There are ZERO holes in the back of my Cab (even under the tape job I did to keep my Kitty out of there)  "Kat POW Chicken", anyone?  No, I didnt think so..  So the question remains: How is this machine originally supposed to be fired up?   Any help here, would be super cool.

[Encryptor]

Are there any holes in the top of the machine?

[Paladin]

The power switch for Defender should be under the coin door, I think on the left side.  That's actually under the part of the cab that sticks out and the coin door bolts to.  A nice place for the home user, but kind of a dumb idea for an arcade.  I'm betting someone moved it so people couldn't mess with it on location.

Very nice progress by the way!

[kampcool]

BINGO!    Thanks Palidin you nailed it.   Ill get a picture up tonight after work.

[opt2not]

There you go!
Was looking up the manual and there wasn't any cabinet diagrams. On my Robotron, the hole is at the lower right-hand side of the back.

Funny coincidence, I'm going to be looking at a Defender for sale this weekend, good to know where the switch located!
 

[kampcool]

Thanks to Palidin, for solving that mystery, I was looking everywhere in the diagrams as well.  I wonder how many dudes my age, back in the 80's dropped a token and found that nifty secret.  I was leaning towards the coinbox, as that was the natural "lay" of the wires, but it made absolutely no ORIGINAL sense.  I was starting to think it was a hack, and I am very glad it is NOT.   Makes me love this old Williams even more.  Heres a picture:
 

[kampcool]

Ok, I have reinstalled my On/Off switch to the original location under the coinbox, so the back of my unit SHOULD be left closed, to keep kitty out while I work on this DEFENDER.    I am having some odd problems stopping me from doing so.      For one thing, I keep powering up into "HOUSEKEEPING", and I realize this is a symptom of "POWERLOSS", but my 3 AA's are brand new, and this unit has no coorosion in this area. .
 So I have to hit the plunger reset to bring me into "GAMEOVER", before I can Play.

[kampcool]

  Ok, that being said, here is where stuff gets weird.  I can hit the coin op spring, machine allows credit, I can hit "One Player" and I go into "Game Mode.  I can operate all functions (Smart bomb, Reverse, Thrust , and Hyperspace), but I have no "FIRE" or "Joystick Up/Down"   I have a brand new rebuild kit on my joystick hardware, thats not it.  I reflowed the connectors on my user interface board, and even hard soldered the connections eliminating the cheesy splice connectors.



Temporary, trying to isolate...
I even took a known leaf switch that works and put it on the "fire" and had the same results. 

[kampcool]

Should I replace the Interface Board, or the capacitor on it?   or is it in the ribbon cable connection to the main?  Or are these all symptoms of something else one you guys have seen?

[kampcool]

In house keeping it lets me go to switch test, and the three that pop up, are "auto up" (but when I hit it it works fine), "Down", and "Fire" do nothing no matter what switches I use.

[opt2not]

Have you tried a continuity test on the wiring harness itself? It could be possible there is a break in the wire somewhere. It's good to eliminate that possibility anyways.

Otherwise, it sounds like a grounding issue to me. Varify the ground wire is being distibuted to those switches.

[kampcool]

Switch test says: Down, AutoUP, FIRE.   although, I can hit "Autoup" and It registers, but not joystick down or fire. Also, I can go thru housekeeping, and autoup works fine.

OK, riddle me this.  Ive been probing, and testing continuity of my control panel harness, all seems just fine.   As I was testing the ground, throughout... It dawned on me.    From the I/O 69 board, first stop for ground "Orange with black stripe" is the "FIRE" button terminal, closest to the actual bottom of the leafswitch, where the button makes contact.  From here, Ground is jumpered to each and every single button and joystick trigger(in the same terminal location closest to button) till the far left of the control panel (as we play) onto the "DOWN" joystick trigger.  So, ground starts at the fire button (furthest right), and ends at the down joytrigger (furthest left).     
 
If I had ground issues, wouldnt everything after "fire" be dead as well?  I am REALLY starting, to wonder if my A) House keeping switches (in the coin op door) are bad B)my I/O 69 board is bad....... 
 

Two things are bugging me with clues.  1)the fact that I cannot get this machine to power-up in "Game Over" (even after securing the back door (and switch closed properly) and (securing the front coin door and switch properly).  2)I can save settings in housekeeping, but it doesnt remember.
 
Doesnt seem like these would affect my control board during a restart, reprogram, play situation.....which brings my suspicion back to the "Auto UP"/Manual down, Highscore reset, Advance button area?   UNLESS I need to pull the main board do a total clean and Lithium kit....
 
Pretty weird huh?  HELP!

[kampcool]

Here is a question out to you guys with working DEFENDERS:  "When you hit "HYPERSPACE", does you ship automatically float up to the top of the Screen?  Mine does, even after cutting the "UP" wire off of the I/O board.   (Orange with white stripe).
 


Any help here guys, I appreciate,   
 
Thanks, kampcool.

[TheShanMan]

Kampcool, excuse the approach of my reply here. I have never read this thread before so I've only skimmed and may be addressing things you've already got covered here. But I have a soft spot for defender because it's the first dedicated cabinet I got when I switched from just having a mame cab to collecting dedicated cabinets.

Some people don't realize the back door switch can be pulled out and then the game will run with the back door off (i.e. tape was unnecessary).

Toggle power switch should be mounted under the coin door - you should see a hole under there if you get down on the floor and look up at it.

Coin mechs are fairly generic so you shouldn't have much trouble getting those empty slots to work. Only part that is really Williams specific is that "T" shaped piece. Post a WTB and you might be able to find some, especially if you go over to the klov forums.

Yeah, those kind of connectors aren't very good. There's a great guy on the klov forums, dokert, who has made reproduction wiring harnesses. Connectors cause so many problems in these old games so that would be a good preventative measure even if things are working fine. He may or may not have any on hand though so you'd have to PM him. You could also just replace connectors yourself.

I suggest trying to get help from anyone but Bob as much as possible (other than orders, of course). He apparently gets like 3 hours of sleep a night and is busy filling orders the rest of the time so it's best to bug those of us who have a little more time to spare.

Check arcadeshop for joystick rebuild kit.

Sounds like you may have some circuitry issues in the battery power circuit. You could check the voltage to the 5101 ram chip when the game is off. I actually got a 5101 ram adapter that converts it over to nvram (i.e. no battery needed). That might solve your problem since the battery circuit would be irrelevant. You should remove the batteries though of course. The guy who makes them is named Lindsey. I bought one from him for my defender and one for a pinball machine. I don't see info on it posted on his website but just contact him directly and if you want you can tell him I referred you. I've talked to him a bunch on the forums and actually met him a couple of days ago. His sites are warpzonearcade.com and pinforge.com.

As for your nonfunctional FIRE button, have you tried a continuity check with a multimeter at the board connector? It may be that the leaf switch contacts need cleaning. Pinch leaves together with some paper sandwiched, then move paper around. If it's really bad, you can use some REALLY light sandpaper using the same procedure but you want to be careful.

Please feel free to contact me if there's anything I can do to help. I'm not always on byoac constantly like I once was but you can always PM me and I'll see the email notification. Keep up the good work!

[cw]

have you checked you b+? Asking because the pot it up all the way...

[kampcool]

  Thanks for posting, TheShanMan, I have read your restore 7 times.  No need to appologize for your approach, This is my 1st restore as well.  Let me CLARIFY
1) I didnt want to "pull" the back switch out, as I want to have this restored as original as posible,back door switch included.  I have remounted it and it is in working order, and my machine WILL NOT power up unless it is depressed with the back door mounted  A.T.M.
2) This weekend, I am going to build a new control panel harness (with a little more length, and with a more user/owner "secure" way of plugging into the I/O 69, even tho I do have good readings when I have the control panel upside down and check at all connections. All leafswitches, buttons, and Joystick work, as I have installed a rebuild kit on my Joystick, and cross referenced known working switches into bad spots.
I have a different I/O 69 board enroute, and before I do a switcharoo, the only thing I can think of to check on the current one, is the resitors/light test on the board itself. 
3) I over stated how much help "BOB" has been bugged by me (OUTSIDE OF ORDERS), except when I took that picture of my G07 chasis, and it was so large, that it clogged his mail. By the way, he didnt know what the hell that prong was sticking thru my g07 chasis either, just north of the C510. I told him right away, I didnt need my hand held, and realized VERY quickly that all I needed to do was read his rants.
4)Circuitry issues in the battery power circuit, checking voltage to the 5101 ram w/game off, and the Lindsey leed.    THANKYOU very much, I will probe into that this weekend, brother. 
5) Im totally stoked you dropped back by, as I could pick up elements of a really nice restore. Hope mine turns out half as good, as yours did.

[kampcool]

CW!!! THAT'S ONE SHARP EYE YOU GOT THERE.

even more coincidental, this photo was taken before reinstallation, and before I checked for 120VDC R01, and adjusted at the R909, before fine tuning.
I never mentioned this, because I have such a great picture, but even after this photo, I needed to totally max that R909, and I still only came up with 112-115VDC.  That was #1 process Bob Ranted about at: "http://arcadecontrols.com/BBBB/go7-1.html". After the monitor Straightened out, I never thought about it again. 
Is this a blatent sign of PowerSupply issues, where are you heading with this CW?, Please Do elaborate.
 
Thanks in advance to all the williams Pros, helping a Newbie. 

[TheShanMan]

You missed my point about the back door switch. Believe me, I like mine being as original as possible too. I'm not suggesting removing it. What I was trying to say is that interlock switches can be pushed in and pulled out. Pushing in is momentary (the point being, the game should not be powered up when the back door is removed), but pulling it out will stay that way until you push it in (point being, you have the back door off but you are specifically choosing to have the game powered while you are back there).

[cw]

I just wanted to make sure your b+ was adjusted...

[kampcool]

Thats a really cool tip, much appreciated Shanman. 

[kampcool]

Well, I finished constructing and installing my new control panel wiring harness, and ensured all switches are good and adjusted my new joystick switches to no avail.  The same controls are non fuctional, FIRE, DOWN (I cant tell if up works or not in game, as my ship is ALWAYS up).  Switch test still says the same thing in houskeeping.  "DOWN, AUTOUP, FIRE"   And yet "Autoup" works in the coin slot switch area when I press it, during the test phase  It will blink on and off.      All ram, and cmos ram tests indicate  all OK.  My I/O board was reflowed, looks good, all resitors checked good.  Kinda frusterating, as I knew my down and fire commands worked when I played her out in the garage semi blind pre cap kit.  My new (used) I/o board should arrive shortly, I suppose I will switch it out to see if I can reach different results.

[TheShanMan]

What happens in the input test screen? Maybe UP and FIRE are stuck on such that pressing up, down, or fire appear to do nothing?

[kampcool]

Thanks for the reply, TheShanman.    I think we might be talking about the same thing.   In the switch test  "houskeeping"  3 switches popup as listed.  Down   Autoup  Fire.       Down and fire are non responsive,  but when I toggle autoup, it dissapears, and reappears.    I just recieved a different I/O board today, let me try that and see what happens.   If the problem still persists, maybe Ill disable that autoup toggle and see if it frees up my fire and down.   Its gotta be something minor, as I am sure these worked pre cap kit......

[kampcool]

     I was just reading thru the early pcb operation manual, and it says during test 6, switch test, crt will display autoup (closed and up pos.) and any stuck switches.  depressing into manual down, turns off the autoup on crt, and enables you see any switch displayed on the crt upon activation. 
 
     So in other words, my autoup/manual down toggle is doing what it is supposed to. 
 
     I just need to find out where my down and fire are stuck at.

[kampcool]

  O.K, Its been a LONG while since I have worked on this baby (too busy working on other peoples junk).  Heres what I broke into this morning.................................and Heres where I am at........
 
Game passes all Ram and Rom checks, goes into game mode, and plays with a great picture.   During gameplay, I am unable to move my ship DOWN, or FIRE. 
 
IN Diagnostics Switch Test, my machine does Indicate that "UP", and "Fire"  are stuck.     
 
With the Control Panel unplugged from the interface board, I did a continuity test on my brand new wire harness, and from the Control Panel to white plugs that snap onto the user interface board, The Control panel is operating great with ALL buttons and controls in the open and closed format.  So, with the machine in switch test mode, I poked around inside, and while I was wiggling the data cable from the user interface board to the main board, a bunch of buttons sounded off, So I assumed I should replace this data cable (which was a total pain in the butt.)   
 
Getting the old data cable off was a challenge for sure.

 

[kampcool]

After having to actually pull the solder prongs off with needle nose plyiers while applying heat from the solder side, I was able to get the old data cable off. 
 

 
Afterwards I cleaned up the holes by running a clean leed from a Capacitor to ensure a sweet fitment for my new cable mount.
 

[kampcool]

  New cable went in sweet, from Bob Roberts. 



 
.

[kampcool]

  OK, so I reinstalled my user interface card and WALA....    Same situation.    So now, I am going to do a continuity test from my control panel to the female prongs on my data cable that go to the main board. (which I probably should have done before I replaced that data cable    Live and learn, Ill get this fingered out, sooner or later.  If I am getting good signals here, I imagine I have to move on deeper. (I dont know what to hope for here). 

[kampcool]

 
there are 20 pins here, and Im not sure how they correlate for each control panel function. 
 
Anyone have any hints, or advice?

[boardjunkie]

You have a problem on the interface board then. It could be anything from the debouncing caps and pull up resistors right at the switch input header pins to the PIA chip. You can use simple test gear (logic probe) to t-shoot these. When you close a switch, you should see a reaction on the other side of the 4049 buffer (the pin #s are marked). If you find one that doesn't react, it is stuck....the chip is bad.

If you look at the schematic, its pretty straight forward. You can trace each switch circuit straight thru to the PIA. First thing I'd be checking is to make sure that one side of each "bad" switch is at logic "high", +5v. If its not, either a debounce cap has shorted (it happens), or a pullup resistor is open.