Controls Doing Funny Things With Starter Solenoid Installed. Why?

[spacegoogie]

So I got my starter solenoids installed for my Visual PinBall.  http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7572&page=3
I use " [ " for left flipper and " C "  for right flipper. The funny thing is when the flippers are pressed fast and randomly (I'm testing this in notepad) I get other key presses.
Like so [c[c[c[c[c5[c[c[c[c56c[c[c[cjf5[c[c[c[c[c[ Why is key "5", "6", "J", "F", show it's being pressed when I'm only pressing the " [ " and "C" keys?
It's a problem because it's giving me error messages in visual pinball when these keys are pressed. Can someone help me try to figure out what the heck is going on?
I did some videos of the solenoids working a few days ago: http://www.youtube.com/user/spacegoogie#p/u/2/9CltVhj74Nw
Thanks!  

[Dazz]

Do you even have "5", "6", "J", "F" mapped on your encoder?  Try disconnecting the buttons leading to those and then try.  I wonder if when the solenoid is firing it's possibly causing rattling and making those others trigger. 

[spacegoogie]

Do you even have "5", "6", "J", "F" mapped on your encoder?  Try disconnecting the buttons leading to those and then try.  I wonder if when the solenoid is firing it's possibly causing rattling and making those others trigger.  

Dazz,
these buttons are being used. I can not for the life of me figure out how this is possible.  
Come to think of it Dazz, that could be the only thing that could be going on right is it's causing rattling. I mean how else could it happen? I'm going to disconnect those buttons and see what happens when I do it. Be back in a few.

[Ond]

I suspect you're getting induced EMF when the solenoid moves back after release which on rapid button press is sending a charge back through your encoder.  That's off the top of my head.  You might need some sort of filter to prevent back EMF registering 'ghost' button presses.

[spacegoogie]

CRAP!! I disconnected  the wires from the switch's and the keys were still popN up? 

[Ond]

Yep, because the other buttons aren't causing the problem.  If I was using Solenoids with an encoder I would isolate them from the encoder by using relays (solid state ones).  In fact now that I think of it there's a warning with some encoder's when trying to connect inductive devices.  Which encoder are you using?  From memeory Encoders from Groovy Game Gear have some notes with them on how to connect inductive devices.

[spacegoogie]

I'm a little new to the solenoid thing so forgive me for sounding like a ass. So it wont matter if I move the encoder pack further away from the solenoid? And what do you mean by solid state? Lol I have no idea what I would need so if you can provide some links or even the names of the items I should be looking for that would be fantastic.

[spacegoogie]

Yep, because the other buttons aren't causing the problem.  If I was using Solenoids with an encoder I would isolate them from the encoder by using relays (solid state ones).  In fact now that I think of it there's a warning with some encoder's when trying to connect inductive devices.  Which encoder are you using?  From memeory Encoders from Groovy Game Gear have some notes with them on how to connect inductive devices.

I'm using the X-Arcade BYO Arcade Encoder, I know a lot of people talk crap on it but I never had a problem with it. Works good for me.

[SavannahLion]

I suspect you're getting induced EMF when the solenoid moves back after release which on rapid button press is sending a charge back through your encoder.  That's off the top of my head.  You might need some sort of filter to prevent back EMF registering 'ghost' button presses.

Diode?

[Ond]

Check my last post I was adding to it as you responded.  Solid state relays are non mechanical i.e. they dont click when powered.  It will make no difference how far away you move the solenoid, the 'kickback' charge from the solenoid is on the wires connecting it to the encoder.  I'd email the supplier of the encoder and ask how best to wire up solenoids.  Any electronics hobby shop will have relays you can use to switch a 12v or 5 volt device on and off like a solenoid.

[Ond]

I suspect you're getting induced EMF when the solenoid moves back after release which on rapid button press is sending a charge back through your encoder.  That's off the top of my head.  You might need some sort of filter to prevent back EMF registering 'ghost' button presses.

Diode?

yep a diode would work, you could put one in series with one of the wires to your solenoid, you might have to experiment with the direction you splice it into the wire before it works.  A diode will allow current to flow in only one direction, should prevent back emf problems.  Again, ask at an electronics hobby shop for advice on a diode rated for that use.

[H4CK3R]

You could use a Diode...

But I have tested these.  While you give current / power to the solenoid, it does not cause any power to transfer to the switch/ ipac, it just closes the circuit. 

Here is the diagram i wrote.



H4CK3R

[spacegoogie]

Cool, looks like a cheap fix. http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032269   

[Ond]

There you go, check H4CK3R's wiring.

[H4CK3R]

OK.. he's having a small issue, even with the diode hooked up.

He's still getting random keystroke entries, while mine isn't.

Differences are Mine are hooked up to a laptop power adapter, with the magnetic ring around it, while his is hooked up to a secondary PC power supply.

What is the best way to protect it for EMF's?

Is it EMF causing the the random keystroke entries?

Kinda at a lost here.

H4CK3R


EDIT

here is how we tried with a Diode..

[Ed_McCarron]

The diode in the last post looks correct, installed on the power supply leads.  Perhaps toss a few inductors in series with the power leads to further attempt to block the spikes?

[H4CK3R]

Going to take out his Extra PC power supply and add an isolated Power adapter... then wire it like this..



H4CK3R