Keywiz40-St issues.

[brownicus15]

How long should it take for my codes to upload?  Its been a long time, running on a windowsXP pentium4 computer, I really didn't expect it to take this long, yet it has.  I'm going on about 20 minutes.  Is there an issue with the connection between the KeyWiz and the computer?

[WhereEaglesDare]

]I have the very same problem, I just bought my keywiz not long ago and I have been trying to work with RandyT at GGG and getting no where with it.  Does it connect to the uploader, when you start the uploader and you push a button does it show what button you are pushing?  Its annoying as hell because I really want to setup my alternate key layout.  Im happy to see that I'm not the only one with this issue.

[brownicus15]

No, it doesn't show anything.  Its as if it can't find the damn KeyWiz so it just says "the hell with it, I'll pretend I find it"..followed up with about an hour of upload time before it finally decides "yeah, I'm done working".

[WhereEaglesDare]

so how does it attempt to connect if it doesnt find the KeyWiz?  On mine I cant do anything on the software if it doesnt see the KeyWiz.

[brownicus15]

I don't think it ever truly finds the KeyWiz.  I believe it just says it does and lets me mess with the program, because after 4 connection attempts, finally it finds it.  But its ALWAYS four.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Check your wiring,  does it work in game fine?

Email Tech Support a GGG

[Havok]

Do you also have a keyboard connected? If so, try disconnecting and upload again.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Do you also have a keyboard connected? If so, try disconnecting and upload again.

oh yea, didnt think of that, i did notice that one time, disconnect the keyboard and it started to play, still wont upload.  give it a try

[Havok]

Also, a silly question: you are using the uploader 3.0 version, right? The previous versions will not work on the newer hardware.

And a long shot: flash your computer BIOS with the latest version from your manufacturer.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Yep, using KW3.zip from www.groovygamegear.com/kw3.zip and I am using the latest flash.

On mine the Key-Wiz is working like it is suppose to, just the uploader isnt.  I have reinstalled, redownloaded, etc and just wont work.  I may end up asking for a refund.

[Nbk_Orchid]

I have the same problem as you guys.  I had the uploader run on startup but it would never connect and upload my custom key set.  I tried downloading the latest uploader version and reinstalling and everything but it just never worked for me so I ended up just using the standard mame setup the kewiz comes with which has been fine for the past year but the more I get into arcade cabinets and emulation I am finding out that the mame keys are not best for every emulator.  Hope we can find a good solution to this so I can give my keywiz uploader another try  . Keep us posted if anyone has some advice. 

[Havok]

Might be an incompatibility with your computer's chipset. Can you try uploading to it on another computer? At least then you can narrow it down to the pc, or the KeyWiz. Barring that, send an email to Randy. I have a bunch of his stuff and he's helped me with a hardware issue in the past:

GroovyGameGear

[WhereEaglesDare]

i sent him several emails, didnt get any replys after a while...  i sent 3 or 4 to no repsonse.  I have been out of town and havnt had time to fool with it, but it still doesnt work.  I don't know if I would recommend this product in the future

[RandyT]

i sent him several emails, didnt get any replys after a while...  i sent 3 or 4 to no repsonse.  I have been out of town and havnt had time to fool with it, but it still doesnt work.  I don't know if I would recommend this product in the future

When there is no fault in the hardware, as we have concluded here, then the issue ultimately lies with the configuration of the user's system. I tried to be as helpful as I could be in the many emails we exchanged, but I cannot troubleshoot what it is on your system that may be causing a conflict.  It's a very rare situation, about one in every couple hundred or so customers, but when it happens it's frustrating.  I do understand that (trust me), but there is a very real limit to the assistance I can provide when things work fine for me on the 10 or so systems I have at my disposal, and not the one system belonging to a customer with a system configuration I am unable to see.

In all honesty, anyone relying on reprogramming an encoder to make their setup work, should rethink their build strategy.  It's wholly unnecessary with MAME and the vast majority of software out there, as any emulator or game program worth a nickel has the ability to redefine it's inputs.

RandyT

[mmb]

Any ideas on what to trouble shoot to correct this issue?  I'm also having the issue on an ST with XP on a P4 board. 

Only thing I want to change is the Shazaam! key for p "pause" to make it ESC so my pause key can double duty as the escape key.

KeyWiz Uploader 3 goes to 100% CPU usage when attempting the upload, but never finishes.  Otherwise, everything works fine using defaults.

[RandyT]

Any ideas on what to trouble shoot to correct this issue?  I'm also having the issue on an ST with XP on a P4 board.  

The Uploader software expects two-way communication between the KeyWiz and the computer, and this is likely where the difficulty comes in.  It looks for an acknowledgement that everything has been performed properly, and sometimes rogue software will interfere with those acknowledgments.  Some examples of software that can do this are anything that can interfere with the Windows messaging system, keyloggers, viruses, malware, AutoHotKey scripts, any application which can steal focus from other apps, etc.

Only thing I want to change is the Shazaam! key for p "pause" to make it ESC so my pause key can double duty as the escape key.

P1B4 and P2B4 both issue ESC in the default Shazaaam! set, so ESC should be more than covered with the buttons you already have on the panel.  If you are concerned primarily with MAME, just set Exit to "9" and you can do the PAUSE/ESC thing with no need to program anything on the encoder.  Just a couple of things to consider if you are unable to find the rogue software mentioned above on your system.

RandyT

[WhereEaglesDare]

So there is no chance that the KeyWiz could be malfunctioning then?  I followed all your steps to the T and I countinue to have the same issue, even put it on another PC... same thing. 

Also, I have always heard about your great customer service, but when you decide to just stop replying to emails concerning your product then it appears that your customer service is lacking.  I know your busy, got stuff to do, whatever, but to just stop replying to emails abruptly it is a good way to loose well paying customers. 

So that members don't get the wrong idea I would like to also note, other than this incident, that I purchased a set of buttons, sticks, molding, and a bit more from GGG and had quick shipping, very reasonable prices and it was packaged great.  Overall the transaction is Very Satisfactory it is just that the KeyWiz, in my case at least, does not work as advertised.

[RandyT]

So there is no chance that the KeyWiz could be malfunctioning then?  I followed all your steps to the T and I countinue to have the same issue, even put it on another PC... same thing.  

It's possible, but very unlikely.  All GGG interface products are tested 100% for proper function by me personally, both with the Uploader software and every single input/output, before being shipped to our customers.  That's the type of "customer service" we provide to ensure that 99.5% don't have the issues you seems to be experiencing, and if they do, it's very, very unlikely to be the fault of a defective unit.  In fact, on the few rare occasions that this situation arises, and the customer sends the unit back, it always works just fine on our machines.

Something to keep in mind is that if the second PC you tried is configured in the same way as the first, the two could have the same conflicting software in common.

However, if you would like to send the unit to me for testing, I will be happy to do so.

RandyT

[mmb]

I really hate to bump this again, but I've formatted and reinstalled the system with XP SP3 and the uploader software still bombs out. 

Literally, the only software installed is XPsp3, Chrome, ATI video drivers and the keywiz loader with a USB keyboard and mouse plugged in along with the KW40-ST.

Any ideas on what to look for?

Any ideas on what to trouble shoot to correct this issue?  I'm also having the issue on an ST with XP on a P4 board.  

The Uploader software expects two-way communication between the KeyWiz and the computer, and this is likely where the difficulty comes in.  It looks for an acknowledgement that everything has been performed properly, and sometimes rogue software will interfere with those acknowledgments.  Some examples of software that can do this are anything that can interfere with the Windows messaging system, keyloggers, viruses, malware, AutoHotKey scripts, any application which can steal focus from other apps, etc.

Only thing I want to change is the Shazaam! key for p "pause" to make it ESC so my pause key can double duty as the escape key.

P1B4 and P2B4 both issue ESC in the default Shazaaam! set, so ESC should be more than covered with the buttons you already have on the panel.  If you are concerned primarily with MAME, just set Exit to "9" and you can do the PAUSE/ESC thing with no need to program anything on the encoder.  Just a couple of things to consider if you are unable to find the rogue software mentioned above on your system.

RandyT

[WhereEaglesDare]

Didnt you hear?  Its got to be your PC.  Has to be, no way around it.  

Doesnt matter that there are four people in this thread complaining about the same problem.

[RandyT]

Doesnt matter that there are four people in this thread complaining about the same problem.

That's less than we ship in one day and the KeyWiz has been offered for 7 years now.

I really hate to bump this again, but I've formatted and reinstalled the system with XP SP3 and the uploader software still bombs out. 

Literally, the only software installed is XPsp3, Chrome, ATI video drivers and the keywiz loader with a USB keyboard and mouse plugged in along with the KW40-ST.

Any ideas on what to look for?

I'm starting to wonder if all of the services are installed.  Are these "light" installs?  Are you using a Standard US 101-key AT Keyboard driver?  If a non-US driver is being used, it's possible that the keyboard output is being mapped to something that causes the software not to recognize the ack that is being returned by the hardware.

RandyT

[WhereEaglesDare]

I am not using a Light install.  I am using a full Genuine Windows XP SP2 Install, upgraded to SP3.  I am using the standard Keyboard drivers.  Is there a chance that many people dont use the uploader to alter the default setups, so you know how many you have that are bad, plus is there a chance you may have a bad batch of KeyWizs?  Do you make these your self or do you have a factory make them for you?  When you test them, do you test them with the uploader and send different schemes in?

RandyT we didnt set out to attack your products and I know I have tried on several occasions to work with you to figure out what is going on.


Could people attach screenshots or pictures of the screen of the errors they are getting so we can all make sure that we are getting similar errors?

I'll start, mine just sits there when I try to upload my scheme in.  It seems to load it but doesnt complete and the scheme doesnt go into the keywiz.

[RandyT]

Is there a chance that many people dont use the uploader to alter the default setups, so you know how many you have that are bad...

If you are positing that out of many thousands of units in the field, only the 4 in this thread are using the software, then I'm not sure how to respond to that...at least not tactfully.

, plus is there a chance you may have a bad batch of KeyWizs?  Do you make these your self or do you have a factory make them for you?  When you test them, do you test them with the uploader and send different schemes in?

Robert, we make each and every unit ourselves, and as I wrote above in this very same thread,  I test each and every unit myself before it is shipped.  I also offered you the option of returning it to me to test for you, if you really think it's defective, and I haven't heard a single thing from you stating that you would like me to do so.

I'll start, mine just sits there when I try to upload my scheme in.  It seems to load it but doesnt complete and the scheme doesnt go into the keywiz.

This means that in the time between where you started the transfer and where it ended, something has seized control of the keyboard input system and the final ack did not reach the software.  The fact that the software works at all indicates that the KeyWiz hardware is 100% healthy.  But please return the unit.  You obviously can't make use of it without changing the MAME defaults, and for whatever reason, that's not going to happen on your system.

RandyT

[mmb]

I'm starting to wonder if all of the services are installed.  Are these "light" installs?  Are you using a Standard US 101-key AT Keyboard driver?  If a non-US driver is being used, it's possible that the keyboard output is being mapped to something that causes the software not to recognize the ack that is being returned by the hardware.

RandyT

Full install, standard US-101 keymap, Dell USB keyboard also connected to the system. 

I'm not too concerned with the inability to upload a custom codeset on the control panel it is currently in.  I'll just re-drill and re-wire.  It's final home will be in a classics mame only cab and won't ever need to bother with shifted keys or custom controls.

It is frustrating that the uploader didn't work out of the box on my systems but it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I've spent more on beer at a ballgame than on the encoder. 

[WhereEaglesDare]

Is there a chance that many people dont use the uploader to alter the default setups, so you know how many you have that are bad...

If you are positing that out of many thousands of units in the field, only the 4 in this thread are using the software, then I'm not sure how to respond to that...at least not tactfully.

Sarcasm will you get you nowhere RandyT.  I was not suggesting this at all.What I was suggesting is that perhaps you have a batch of 50 or so get manufactured bad and out of those 50 how many use the software with same result, and out of those people, how many are responding on the particular thread? and as to your explanation of  the uploader and how it works... THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL A WHILE AGO.  No need to be esoteric with your responses, many of us are smart enough to understand how this thing is suppose to operate and we can not properly troubleshoot the device without this information...

 I don't want to return the Keywiz, I just want the thing to work!  If you are convinced that you dont have bad keywizes and you are sure that you test them out then there has to be something else wrong.  I havnt seen any real help with this.  You could use this opportunity to lay out new and clear troubleshooting guidelines, the best ones I can find are from KeyWiz2.  if you are using a fresh install what items could be "stealing focus" from the Keywiz, if a fresh install has the same issue then what is it that we are doing different or wrong?

We are here asking for help RandyT.

and who is Robert?

[RandyT]

Sarcasm will you get you nowhere RandyT.  I was not suggesting this at all.What I was suggesting is that perhaps you have a batch of 50 or so get manufactured bad and out of those 50 how many use the software with same result, and out of those people, how many are responding on the particular thread? and as to your explanation of  the uploader and how it works... THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL A WHILE AGO.  No need to be esoteric with your responses, many of us are smart enough to understand how this thing is suppose to operate and we can not properly troubleshoot the device without this information...

I don't know that I would have considered what I wrote "sarcasm", but regardless, as much as I dislike quoting myself (from this same thread, no less);

The Uploader software expects two-way communication between the KeyWiz and the computer, and this is likely where the difficulty comes in.  It looks for an acknowledgement that everything has been performed properly, and sometimes rogue software will interfere with those acknowledgments.  Some examples of software that can do this are anything that can interfere with the Windows messaging system, keyloggers, viruses, malware, AutoHotKey scripts, any application which can steal focus from other apps, etc.

And Robert is someone I have been helping recently with the software.  Then you must be David.  I'm sorry you can't figure out why it doesn't work on your system, and urge you to return the item if you aren't happy, but everything I wrote here, I also sent to you directly in one of the 5 emails I sent trying to assist you.  The only things I can add at this point is that the KeyWiz should be plugged in at boot time.  If it is not, then the system may not have all of the proper drivers loaded.  Also, unplug your USB keyboard temporarily.  If it's a fancy one with a bunch of extra buttons, it may be quietly injecting things into the keyboard data stream that it's own driver understands, but will confuse the hell out of the Uploader software.

Just for fun, I just made of the software working fine with a "factory second" KeyWiz40 Eco I dug out of my junk bin.  Windows XP Service Pack 3 with latest updates.  It's my P4 "stereo system" computer that has never had a KeyWiz attached to it.  Hooked it up, re-booted, copied the software folder from the network and ran it. The result is what you see in the video.  I also tested again on a different system with XP Service Pack 2 and got the same result.

RandyT

[headkaze]

If this is a PS/2 interface you may need to go into your BIOS and set USB Emulation to KB/MS to turn on legacy keyboard and mouse support.

[mmb]

If this is a PS/2 interface you may need to go into your BIOS and set USB Emulation to KB/MS to turn on legacy keyboard and mouse support.

That setting was on in the BIOS of my system. 

[headkaze]

That setting was on in the BIOS of my system. 

With the MiniPAC I have I had to turn mouse emulation on (yes I said mouse emulation) otherwise programming would be very unreliable and would often time out and fail. I would try all of the settings in relation to mouse and keyboard in your BIOS and see if that helps. I don't know if the keywiz is PS/2 or not so it may or may not help.

[RandyT]

Ok, for anyone who is having difficulty with unknown processes interfering with the Uploader software, I have made an experimental version of the software that does a couple of things differently.  First, it sets a couple of the critical processes to the highest priority allowed by the OS.  Second, when used at boot time (Virtual EEPROM feature), it gives the system some time to stabilize before uploading the codes.  This will help on systems with a lot of startup tasks.

If this helps the few who are having issues, I will make the changes into more user friendly "compatibility" options which can be tweaked to suit, or disabled if they aren't required.

Just unzip the software and put it in your current Uploader folder.  You should rename your old executable to something else before doing so, so you can restore it later if you need to.  Any feedback as to improvement, or lack thereof, will be appreciated.  Works fine here, but it always has so it's hard for me to know.

RandyT

[Nbk_Orchid]

I posted earlier about having problems with the keywiz uploader connecting but thankfully after a operating system reinstall (I am using tinyXP rev.10 now) the uploader is working much better and my whole system overall is running much more smoothly. I don't know if this helps anybody as a operating system reinstall may not be an option for most people but if its not a problem for you or you were planing on it anyway go ahead and give it a try.  Well anyway, One less person for you to worry about Randy.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Ok, for anyone who is having difficulty with unknown processes interfering with the Uploader software, I have made an experimental version of the software that does a couple of things differently.  First, it sets a couple of the critical processes to the highest priority allowed by the OS.  Second, when used at boot time (Virtual EEPROM feature), it gives the system some time to stabilize before uploading the codes.  This will help on systems with a lot of startup tasks.

If this helps the few who are having issues, I will make the changes into more user friendly "compatibility" options which can be tweaked to suit, or disabled if they aren't required.

Just unzip the software and put it in your current Uploader folder.  You should rename your old executable to something else before doing so, so you can restore it later if you need to.  Any feedback as to improvement, or lack thereof, will be appreciated.  Works fine here, but it always has so it's hard for me to know.

RandyT

Thank you RandyT, I downloaded and applied the patch, and now instead of the laser eyes getting stuck at the end of the bar, it restarts when the eyes make all the way to the end.  I let it go for about 10 minutes and it just uploads the set over and over again.  Sometimes it loads really fast and some it loads really slow, like it is actually processing something.  It is acting differently.  I went through my BIOS and I dont see anything about Mouse Emulation, but all I have connected is the USB Mouse, the KeyWiz2, my Cat5e Connection, my SVideo cable for Video, and sound.

When I restart my cabinet the uploader now starts on it's own and it starts the uploading process.  I can't stop it because I havnt connected my keyboard.

Any suggestions?

[RandyT]

Any suggestions?

Start the software with a /B and see what happens.  It may appear to work and not, but it's worth a shot.  If it completes, test to see if the new codes are present.

I'm inclined to believe that there is a very nasty service running on your system that is intercepting calls from the keyboard stream.  It keeps restarting because it's waiting for an OK from the hardware that never makes it to the software, so it times out and starts again.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Cool, Im going to go and turn off all extra services, FileZila, AVG, everything that windows will let me turn off, and we'll try it again.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Didnt work.  I dont know what else to do.  Im about to build a new pc tonight, i'll hookup the keywiz to it to see if the uploader works when I get it up

[WhereEaglesDare]

Okay I put a brand new copy of Windows XP SP2 with no updates on a PC.  Installed the LAN Drivers, and KeyWiz 3 Uploader, thats it.  They keywiz was recognized, and it worked, up on joystick 1 is up on the kw3 software.  I had my USB Mouse connected, the Keywiz, power cable, and the monitor connect, and that is all.  Still get the same error where the wizard's eyes goto the right and stay there.  Installed the patch and restarted the PC, and I got the same error as I did earlier with the patch, it just starts over and over again.

Any ideas.

[RandyT]

Okay I put a brand new copy of Windows XP SP2 with no updates on a PC.  Installed the LAN Drivers, and KeyWiz 3 Uploader, thats it.  They keywiz was recognized, and it worked, up on joystick 1 is up on the kw3 software.  I had my USB Mouse connected, the Keywiz, power cable, and the monitor connect, and that is all.  Still get the same error where the wizard's eyes goto the right and stay there.  Installed the patch and restarted the PC, and I got the same error as I did earlier with the patch, it just starts over and over again.

Any ideas.

David,

If this is the same hardware base (you didn't say), or you have anything attached to the KeyWiz at all, then I'm not surprised.  To accurately troubleshoot this issue, it has to be done on the interface alone, with no buttons, joysticks, or anything else attached, and there has to be other hardware to test on.

Since there obviously isn't an outpouring of individuals having similar problems, it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep trying to troubleshoot your situation in a public forum.  If you want to continue this privately, and are willing to do exactly what I ask and accurately report the findings to me, then we can do that.  Better yet, you should send the unit back to me for testing (as I have requested that you do several times now).  If I hook it to my computers and it functions fine, then I will be happy to send you visual proof of that fact.  If, at that time we decide it is simply a hardware incompatibility with your PS/2 chipset, or an issue with your mouse driver (same mouse, I'm assuming, so the same driver is being loaded as before) then I will simply refund you the cost of the unit.  At this point, I have paid you several times over in my time trying to figure out what makes your situation unique, than what you paid for the interface.  As much as I would like to see the software working on your system, there is a practical limit to what I can do from where I sit.  If there was something I could do to my systems to make it do what you are describing, then at least I would have a chance.  But try as I might, I cannot duplicate what you are describing, so I have no way to troubleshoot it from here.  FYI: I literally have over a dozen PC's here with different OS's and hardware bases.

Your next email to me should contain a full description of the hardware and software configurations of any PC that you have used to test with, and letting me know the result of testing on those machines with only the bare board.  Otherwise, there is nothing I can do, and you should just return the unit.

RandyT

[WhereEaglesDare]

At this point, I have paid you several times over in my time trying to figure out what makes your situation unique, than what you paid for the interface.

RandyT, I didn't intend on buying something that I would this much trouble getting to work.  I didn't realize that you felt that helping your customers troubleshoot your product is such a hassle, I didn't mean to bother you, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

As soon as I get a replacement from UltiMarc, Lizard Lick, or from another of the many dealers on the internet, I will no longer be using your product.  I don't expect any refund because you have already "paid me several times over"

I know that there are things out of your control, but having such a poor attitude is something that should be totally in your control.

[RandyT]

RandyT, I didn't intend on buying something that I would this much trouble getting to work.  I didn't realize that you felt that helping your customers troubleshoot your product is such a hassle...

It's only a hassle when the person expecting me to solve all of their issues posts over and over in public forums about "their experience" when that experience is in the tiniest of minorities, and when they don't do the things I ask them to do, or provide nearly enough information to help them solve the problem.  In fact, in your very first email to me, you complained that the hardware was defective because you unwittingly activated a feature you didn't know existed, apparently because you did not read the documentation.  Even your current issue is not with the hardware, as you have gone great lengths to try to imply, but with getting the software to run on your system.

I usually enjoy helping folks, but at this point, you seem to be on a personal vendetta because I didn't reply to your last email.  The KeyWiz is a product that thousands of other folks are not only enjoying the performance of, but are glad they purchased considering the myriad difficulties associated with other similar units.  And the oddest thing about your situation is that despite your apparent dissatisfaction with the product, I can't even seem to get you to return it to me.  My point about my time was to illustrate your unreasonable expectations.  I have spent hours on trying to help you, taking time away from building products for others (and then you jovially add comments like "+1" to posts where they complain about the speed of their order) when the only thing required of me was to accept the return of the unit and refund your $34.95.  And still, you continue to try to paint me as "the bad guy", even though I continue to offer to help you.  Apparently it has to be on your terms to be worth anything.

RandyT

[WhereEaglesDare]

You know what Randy.  It still doesnt work right, but it isnt that big of a deal I guess.

I'm sorry to be so rude about it.

You seem like a genuinely good guy and maybe we got off to the wrong foot early on.