UltraStik 360 Metal shavings sticking to magnet

[mark6437]

I built an arcade for a friend about 6 months ago. About 2 months after I built it he told me the player 1 joystick was having problems going "down". Well I finally went to his house the other day and I found ALOT of metal shavings on the magnet. They were very fine shavings but the magnet was coated with them. It appears the joystick is somehow making these shavings when you move it and they are falling onto the magnet. Below the joysticks, both of them have the problem, you can see the metal shavings on the wood. At first I thought it was dust but my magnetized screwdriver picked them up.

Anyone seen anything like this before?

Thx

[Ginsu Victim]

What's a magnent?

[syph007]

First time I've heard of this.  It does have me wondering though if most people lubricate the joystick socket regularly.  Hopefully Andy makes the chrome retrofit kit available soon, as it would solve this issue too.

[mark6437]

What's a magnent?

Ugh its too early here.

FIXED

[Ginsu Victim]

.

[DashRendar]

I haven't run into this with my U360s, but it could be possible.

The magnets in these aren't strong enough to pull metal shavings from other areas of the control panel IMO.  It would have to be something close to the joysticks themselves.

Easy to fix at least. 

[mark6437]

Yea I cleaned the magnets off but it is going to happen again. His house is a good distance from mine so a permanent fix would be better.
 

[mark6437]

Just got a response from Andy at Ultimarc:

Mark,
I cant imagine where shavings are coming from. There is no metal to metal contact anywhere on the joystick. I am not sure its possible to ascertain what is happening without seeing "in the flesh" unfortunately.
Andy


I told him if it happens again I would send him the joystick without cleaning it.

[DashRendar]

There may have been some shavings in there from when that part was originally milled.

If that's the case (which is sounds like from what Andy is saying), then this shouldn't happen again.

[kagaden]

I built an arcade for a friend about 6 months ago. About 2 months after I built it he told me the player 1 joystick was having problems going "down". Well I finally went to his house the other day and I found ALOT of metal shavings on the magnet. They were very fine shavings but the magnet was coated with them. It appears the joystick is somehow making these shavings when you move it and they are falling onto the magnet. Below the joysticks, both of them have the problem, you can see the metal shavings on the wood. At first I thought it was dust but my magnetized screwdriver picked them up.

Anyone seen anything like this before?

Thx

Yep, I had the exact same thing happen to both my U360s.

It comes from the joystick shaft and pivot not being properly lubricated (which happens after a period of time) and it starts chipping away at the joystick shaft. Take apart the joystick and you'll see that it's likely eaten through the silver plating on the shaft.

It's not a huge deal that the shaft has been chipped away in terms of gameplay once you've cleaned/lubed them.

I recommend lubricating with Molykote 44 Medium which was referred to me. Works like a charm. No permanent fix though I'm afraid until Andy brings out his pivot kit.

-K

[Dazz]

I just noticed that this has started happening to my U360's as well.  My player 1 down is working very sporadically, so I opened up my control panel and I have metal shavings from the shaft on the magnet as well.  Once cleaned off everything appears to be working fine again.  This issue appears to be a bit more widespread than originally thought.


Andy - Any input on this topic?

[AndyWarne]

I can only assume this is being caused by a stainless steel shim which sits between one of the plastic spring bushes and the body of the stick. This shim moves up and down on the shaft slightly when the stick is activated.

This is part of the original Sanwa design but we are moving away from that design and introducing improvements. Two of the improvements are chrome plating the bearing cup and eliminating the silicone grease, and a revised bush with a tighter tolerance to the central hole to reduce play in the center of travel.

With the new bush it should be possible to simply remove the metal shim. The new bush will not however fit the older sanwa-based version though since the hole is a different size.  We should be able to offer a kit of parts including handle, bushes and cup.

But specifically, the issue in question, I would suggest try removing the metal shim completely. This can be done on the Sanwa-based model without any problem. It cant be done on the later version (yet) as the bush does not have a flat surface. The Sanwa sticks have Sanwa on the dust washer so you can easily tell which version you have.

Andy

[SammyWI]

I did notice some shavings on my U360 magnet and it doesn't have a real lot of use on it yet.   I wonder if you could just substitute a nylon washer for the stainless one.

[kagaden]

But specifically, the issue in question, I would suggest try removing the metal shim completely. This can be done on the Sanwa-based model without any problem. It cant be done on the later version (yet) as the bush does not have a flat surface. The Sanwa sticks have Sanwa on the dust washer so you can easily tell which version you have.

Andy

This makes perfect sense. That washer scraping the shaft when the stick is in play has gotta be it, and certainly looks like it from my sticks. 

[Blanka]

I can only assume this is being caused by a stainless steel shim

Stainless steel is not sticking to magnets. At least real stainless steel isn't. Not so stainless steel like IKEA kitchen tools is still sticking to magnets though  

[Franco B]

Define 'real stainless'.

It depends if the stainless steel is martensitic or austenitic. Martensitic is magnetic whereas austenitic is not.

[Franco B]

If the shafts are anything like the others I have seen they will be chrome plated mild steel.

Its very cheap plating which soon comes off the mild steel. The plating its self is not magnetic but obviously them you will have the stainless steel washer rubbing against the exposed mild steel shaft which may be the cause of the metal fragments.

I'm pretty amazed that its happening to be honest.

[SammyWI]

I can only assume this is being caused by a stainless steel shim

Stainless steel is not sticking to magnets. At least real stainless steel isn't. Not so stainless steel like IKEA kitchen tools is still sticking to magnets though  

Some types of stainless steel are not magnetic at all, such as 300 series.  Other types are magnetic like 400 series.  But even 400 series is not as strongly magnetic as a carbon steel would be.  But both 300 and 400 series are 'real' stainless steels.

I'd guess shavings from the shaft itself (after the plating has worn) are what most people are seeing. But what I had on my U360 may very well have come from my workbench since I've had it apart multiple times and I'm sure there's plenty of steel shavings on my bench.   

[kagaden]

I'm pretty amazed that its happening to be honest.

I'll take some pictures when I pull the U360's out of my cab in the coming weeks. It's pretty clear once you take the sticks apart where the metal is coming from. Again, not a big deal if your U360 is properly lubed... and doesn't cause any permanent damage to play so far as I can tell.

[mark6437]

Ok well I am glad I am not crazy. Sorry this is happening to other people but at least I know the problem now.

[ivwshane]

I'm having the same problem as well:( Where can you get the proper lubricant?


I'm also have an additional problem with one of my u360's (the magnet does not seem to be balanced magnetically).

[kagaden]

I'm having the same problem as well:( Where can you get the proper lubricant?


I'm also have an additional problem with one of my u360's (the magnet does not seem to be balanced magnetically).

I've tried two lubes:
Molykote 44 Medium works great! Teflon silicone does not.

For the magnetic balance issue, is the magnet sitting flush?

Taking a random stab at it because I've had this happen... The magnetic balance issue could be that it's physically pivoted... that can happen when you use a flathead screwdriver to hold the shafe in place while tightening the ball/bat onto the shaft. The screwdriver can dig and twist up some of the shaft so that the magnet won't sit flush. What I did was sand down the ends just a bit before sitting the magnet back onto the joystick.

[ivwshane]

No, the shaft is in good shape as is the magnet.

I've actually always had a calibration issue (having to always re-calibrate it) but I thought it was just normal until I started using my player 2 stick more.


Where do you buy the lube at?

[kagaden]

No, the shaft is in good shape as is the magnet.

I've actually always had a calibration issue (having to always re-calibrate it) but I thought it was just normal until I started using my player 2 stick more.


Where do you buy the lube at?

Picked it up here 5.3 oz for around $20+ship. Not cheap... but it's something you likely won't need to buy again.  
http://www.neelyindustries.com/p-1099-molykote-44-high-temperature-medium-consistency-grease-53-oz-150-g-tube.aspx

[sstralkowski]

I was thinking about buying a U360 for my P1 stick, but given that I'm not very handy, I'm now reconsidering it.  Maybe I'll wait until the model has been perfected. 

[Havok]

Andy - so are we going to have to pay for this retrofit fix?

[kronic24601]

Nothings ever free 

[kagaden]

Andy - so are we going to have to pay for this retrofit fix?

Andy is improving the original sanwa design. This is an issue with the sanwa sticks also, I know that for a fact because I replaced my assembly/shaft/washer with another sanwa one when one of the aluminum pillars got stuck and broke inside the old one. Same chipping happened within a month. If you wipe off the magnet you're fine, it's not detrimental to gameplay.

I love the work Andy's done and would hate to see him eat the cost for a design flaw that wasn't his.

[piecesof8]

Andy - I'm not clear from your post above whether you've already introduced the improvements you're referring to, or if those improvements are still on the horizon. Could you please clarify?

I'm about to order 4 of these, but I'm thinking that if there is a "fixed" revision currently in the works then perhaps I should hold off for now...

[kronic24601]

Obviously Andy can comment, but in an email I got from him directly he said that things are in the works, but not yet ready. I would probably wait if I were you ...

We have these now but it will require a complete upgrade kit as the handles and bushes are a different diameter for this bush. I will get something put together.

Andy

[AndyWarne]

OK this is the situation:

Older sticks with "Sanwa" printed on the dust washer:
You can remove the shim (thin washer) but requires dismantling of the stick. I am not sure this is worthwhile but its an option.

Later sticks with plain dust washer:
We have a new machined bush which reduces play in the center of the travel of the stick, and also allows the shim to be removed. Unless the bush is replaced with this new one the shim cannot be removed on this stick version because the exposed surface of the older bush is not flat. We will supply these free of charge to anyone who has ordered this version but please do not request them if you have the Sanwa version as they will not fit.

New production:
All have the new bush fitted and no shim. The new bush is a white color rather then black and can be seen by looking into the area below the spring.

Future:
All the non-Sanwa sticks also have another enhancement, the chrome-plated bearing cup. We cannot yet offer this as an upgrade for the sanwa ones because the shafts are not the same diameter but we will do so when we have some extra shafts.

[kronic24601]

@AndyT,

I have two of the "older" units with the Sanwa on the washers ... I was already dismantling the sticks for other reasons and I see the shim (thin metal washer that buts up against the bush). So ... if I just remove it, will the shim now scratch away at the plastic instead? You mentioned "I am not sure this is worthwhile but its an option." why is that?

Also, is this only a fix to the Metal Shavings, or also to the centering issue?

Thanks!

[mark6437]

Little bit of an update. I noticed on my arcade I have the sticks that have Sanwa on the dust washer but they are not having the problem. There are no shavings at all on the magnets and they are probably 4 years old. My friend that is having the problem has sticks that are less than a year old and they have alot of shavings on them. Weird. I ahve not heard from him if his dust washers have Sanwa on the dust washers yet.

Just FYI

P.S. Andy, how do I get the new machined bush if his sticks have the plain dust washer?

Thx
Mark

[AndyWarne]

Little bit of an update. I noticed on my arcade I have the sticks that have Sanwa on the dust washer but they are not having the problem. There are no shavings at all on the magnets and they are probably 4 years old. My friend that is having the problem has sticks that are less than a year old and they have alot of shavings on them. Weird. I ahve not heard from him if his dust washers have Sanwa on the dust washers yet.

Just FYI

P.S. Andy, how do I get the new machined bush if his sticks have the plain dust washer?

Thx
Mark

Just drop me an email and I will send the new bush. Note this applies to sticks with the plain dust washer and the black (not the white which is the new) bush which the top end of the spring rests on.

[mark6437]

Ok he just emailed me. He has the dust washer that has Sanwa on them. So do I just remove this shim to fix the problem?

Thx
Mark

[kronic24601]

I would also advise re-lubing the joys when you take it apart. I initially took my shim out, and didn't re-lube and ended up with some plastic shavings... then I took it apart again and lubed it and am not having any problems with shavings currently ...