Best Keyboard Hack tutorial?

[Demon-Seed]

HI
I am on a tight budget and I am considering a keyboard hack instead of IPAC.  I have never done this before.  Is there an easy to follow walkthrough somewhere? Can anyone assist?

I was also wondering if maybe a usb or serial controller would be easier to hack? anyone advise? what ever is easy and cheap.
I would appreciate it.

thanks
Jim

[HaRuMaN]

A cheap USB gamepad would be a better bet.

[syph007]

Even still, 25 bucks isnt alot for the eco.  You could do a KB hack for admin buttons, but dont expect to do that for actual player buttons.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_80&products_id=200

[Smeghead]

I think when you get into it, you'll wish you had just bought an Ipac

[ptinolv]

A keyboard hack isn't recommended because of ghost keys, etc. It is possible but very complicated if you want it to work properly (or impossible depending in how many buttons you need). Keywiz looks like a very cheap option, but i would choose the gamepad version if i were you (help for SFIV, and other pc games).

You could hack a gamepad (I personally hacked 2 xbox 360 controllers). If you do, try to get one with common ground (mine weren't). But i don't think it will be cheaper than 25$ and it requires a lot more work than any ipac/keywiz.

[atomikbohm]

I disagree.  I like to tinker / putz and the keyboard hack wasn't that difficult though it was time consuming. Besides there are emulators and front ends that don't accept joysticks but I've yet to see one that won't accept a keyboard.

As I recall when I did my keyboard hack I ...

1) Tear apart your donor Keyboard (PS/2 is better than USB as the USB has a max key stroke limit) and take out the circut board attached to the end of the cord.  Keep the shell as it might come in handy later.
2) Solder a wire to each of the little contacts on the fingerboard being careful not to solder any of the contacts to any of the other contacts.
3) Download either Keyhook or Keyscan from BYOAC's download page (under utilities) and get it working.  Shut down your PC.  
4) Plug the hacked Key Board it into your PC and start your PC.  Get out your multi meter and set it to check for low DC voltage (5vDC if memory serves)  There are basically 2 "banks" on the circuit board a positive and a negative.  Use your meter on each contact to determine which contacts belong to which bank.  I labeled each wire with a piece of tape, Letters for bank 1 and Numbers for bank 2
4)  Launch the app you chose in #3 above and start shorting letters to numbers keeping track of the results in a grid (Letters on 1 axis and numbers of the other) aka a matrix.
5) Take a look at the BYOAC WIKI on Key Board Hacks on how to avoid Key Ghosting & Key Blocking and your good to go.

After soldering in step 2 I cut cut off the part of my keyboard that the circuit board was originally mounted in with a hand saw.  Then I popped off a couple of keys ran the wires out of the holes and attached them to a D-sub plug. Then hot glued the plug to the keyboard to prevent accidental yanking out of wires.

All in all it took me a couple of hours mainly cause I only had I extra keyboard and didn't want to mess it up.

If anybody sees any errors or down wright wrongness please point it out.

Good Luck and ...

I take no responsibility to any damage you do to your yourself, pc, keyboard, house, neighborhood, planet or the contents of any of the above.  I don't want some litigation happy idiot making a mistake and ending up with my house.  

[syph007]

I understand the urge to tinker, but when there are cheap and better alternatives, you really have to gauge how much of your time is worth 25 bucks.

[atomikbohm]

For me it was a geek project that I could lose myself in for a while and at the time I didn't have the approval of the CFO (aka my wife).  The hack from beginning to end was like $5 for the D-subs.  I had all of other components in my spare parts bins.  To be honest I still have the cab counting the generic sterns cab I think I was $50 or $60 for the whole project.  I still have some work to do but broke the cardinal cab building rule... "NEVER hook up the PC till after the cab has been finished!!!" It's been like that for going on 2 years now 

[mphuie]

A cheap USB gamepad would be a better bet.

Agreed.  USB gamepads will generally give you at least 12 inputs.  I picked up a few on Amazon for less than $8.

[solidteezme]

I think when you get into it, you'll wish you had just bought an Ipac

Exactly what i did after wasting £20 breaking 3 keyboards,

[Demon-Seed]

Is there any descent walkthroughs with hacking a pad?

thx
Jim

[syph007]

Is there any descent walkthroughs with hacking a pad?

thx
Jim

I think it's pretty much, open up pad and start probing with the pad connected to the PC with the game controllers util open.  Then you can see what solder points trigger what buttons.  Hopefully the pad will have a common ground, most do.

[Demon-Seed]

is there any pads that are known to work well?

[BobA]

Here is a start
Gamepad Hack Tread

[ptinolv]

Any cheap gamepad should be fine but it may be hard to find an exact tutorial. If you can get your hand on a multimeter it is not hard to figure out where you need to solder.

[Demon-Seed]

I think I have a multimeter.. just mot sure how to use it

[syph007]

I think I have a multimeter.. just mot sure how to use it

And you want to waste time and hack keyboard/gamepads instead of taking a cheap common sense approach?  Hey if you like pain, who am I to stop you.   

The only other thing I'll point out is you can get one of those eco encoders to mimic keyboard OR gamepad input.   So for the price of 2 'cheap' gamepads, you can get a proper solution anyhow.   

[bkenobi]

No offense, but if you don't know how to use a multi-meter, how are you going to know if your solder joints are any good?  If I were in your shoes, I'd just buy an encoder for ~$25 rather than wasting hours trying to figure out why/how you messed up the hack.

I did a dual strike + mouse hack for my driving cab to save some money.  At the time I did it, I would have needed 2 encoders (1 for the spinner control and one for analog input).  I can't remember, but I think I figured I'd also need a standard encoder for the buttons as well.  Anyway, that would have been somewhere between $50-100.  I opted for a $5 mouse and a $10 joystick and hacked them.

I had some problems with the mouse hack (the mouse I chose was an issue for the front end at the time), but the joystick hack was easy.  BUT, that was because a bunch of people had already done dual strike hacks and so I was simply riding their coat tails.

If you do a keyboard hack successfully, congrats!  BUT, be aware that it won't be as good as a gamepad or encoder for a variety of reasons.

[mphuie]

I think I have a multimeter.. just mot sure how to use it

And you want to waste time and hack keyboard/gamepads instead of taking a cheap common sense approach?  Hey if you like pain, who am I to stop you.   

The only other thing I'll point out is you can get one of those eco encoders to mimic keyboard OR gamepad input.   So for the price of 2 'cheap' gamepads, you can get a proper solution anyhow.   

Money is money, the KeyWiz Eco is still triple the price of  a cheap USB gamepad.  If you're decent at soldering, you can do a pad in ~30 minutes.

Padhacking is fairly trivial and painless, and in most cases you don't need a multimeter.  There are lots of diagrams on the net if you search the exact gamepad model. 

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
I agree there too, money is money.. if I save 20-25 bucks doing it then that will pay for my buttons etc. however if I try it and it takes hours then there is an issue

Jim

[syph007]

I think I have a multimeter.. just mot sure how to use it

And you want to waste time and hack keyboard/gamepads instead of taking a cheap common sense approach?  Hey if you like pain, who am I to stop you.   

The only other thing I'll point out is you can get one of those eco encoders to mimic keyboard OR gamepad input.   So for the price of 2 'cheap' gamepads, you can get a proper solution anyhow.   

Money is money, the KeyWiz Eco is still triple the price of  a cheap USB gamepad.  If you're decent at soldering, you can do a pad in ~30 minutes.

Padhacking is fairly trivial and painless, and in most cases you don't need a multimeter.  There are lots of diagrams on the net if you search the exact gamepad model. 

If you seriously think saving 10 bucks is going to make a significant difference in the project then sure, but I think thats just kidding yourself.  This isnt a cheap budget hobbie, and if you budget 500 and end up spening 800, since thats what always happens... 10 bucks is a joke.

[ptinolv]

I think a lot of people here have more time than money. It may not look like much on a single aspect of the project, but getting 10 dollars everywhere can make a difference at the end.

[Demon-Seed]

I agree 10 is not a lot, however to me at least this is a hobby and I enjoy building etc..... so its not a major pain. (at least I do not think it will be) I have never actually tried to hack a pad.. well once.... and i messed it up......

We have a town wide yardsale day this weekend and I will look for some pads.. what type serial or usb? is there a brand specific?

thanks
Jim

[syph007]

Not too sure about brand, but you can pretty much hack any kind.  The only complications arise if there are no exposed solder points, and only those carbon pads.  You can usually scape a trace bare with an exacto knife thou, and if you use flux on that it can be soldered to.

If you were buying new ones to hack, I'd get these as I've heard others hacked them fine.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3686

[bkenobi]

I suppose it doesn't really matter what type of pads you get, just make sure you have the connections for it.  The common choice today is USB.  However, back in the day, the common choice would have been a game/midi port (sorta looks like a serial port).  If you don't have that type of connection on your system, the that will obviously be a problem.  Also, there are limitations to the number of game port controllers on a system, as I recall, as well as the number of buttons.

If you want to do a game pad hack, I would just go with the cheapest game pad you can find that has a decent amount of buttons on it.  You won't need the analog controls, so I would avoid any pad that has analog sticks (e.g., Playstation controllers) unless the price was low as that might add complications.

For reference, GGG sells pads that are intended for hacking use for ~$6.

[Demon-Seed]

Pardon my ignorance but what is GGG?

thanks for the tips

[drventure]

Groovy Game Gear

GroovyGameGear.com

They've got some good stuff over there.

[syph007]

For reference, GGG sells pads that are intended for hacking use for ~$6.

I thought he only carried that old style gameport ones though, the sidewinders?  Personally I'd want USB, less hastle.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
It looks like it is non usb... however I use it will it work in most emulators? will it work in DOS? what emulators will it not work in?

thx
Jim

[syph007]

Hmmm none of my pc's even have gameports anymore, so I'm not too sure about even how they work.   Maybe someone else will know about OS support etc.

Edit:  Looked up more info on gameports out of curiosity.

The standard gameport has 4 buttons (and 4 analog axes).  If you want more buttons, you pretty much have to hack an 8 button controller.  They used non-standard gameport communication and needed the drivers that came with them.

So... unless you only want 4 buttons, skip the friggin gameport hacking.  It should be a clue that the threads I found info regarding this type of hack are from 2002.  Stick to usb, or just buy an interface card.  Of course the best solution in my opinion is to get ultimarc U360s which removes the need for an interface card, but if you are worried about 10 dollars here an there, I assume you dont want to spend that much for those stick.  They are awesome sticks though and the auto switching of 4way,8way etc is totally worth it IMO.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
The 360s do not need encoder or anything? just usb plug in? wow that is kool.. I have been away from the scene a number of years.... used to have to use encoder. The 360 can it be switched between 8 and 4 way ontop of the panel??? with no need to remove the panel?

However the buttons you still need an encoder anyways.

thanks
Jim

[saint]

Hey
The 360s do not need encoder or anything? just usb plug in? wow that is kool.. I have been away from the scene a number of years.... used to have to use encoder. The 360 can it be switched between 8 and 4 way ontop of the panel??? with no need to remove the panel?

However the buttons you still need an encoder anyways.

thanks
Jim

There's no physical switching needed on the 360's to go from 4 way to 8 way. You have to download a software map (which can be automated to hide it from the game play) to tell the joystick what directions to allow. Note that this is a software based solution, and not a physical restriction. I.E. You can still move the joystick to the top-right diagonal in 4-way mode, it just won't do anything. There are physical restrictors available for the 360 if you want, but they require getting to the bottom of the joystick to manipulate.

The built-in USB interface on the 360's each support 8 buttons, so with two of them you can have 16 buttons without needing an additional interface. Depends on how many buttons you think you'll need for your project.

If you want top-access 4-way / 8-way switching, the Ultimarc Mag-Stik Plus and the Groovy Game Gear OmniStik Prodigy are the only two I'm aware of.

However, the 360's are very nice sticks and I haven't done them justice in describing them here. Take a look at the web pages, http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html, particularly the bit about mapping http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_prog.html

[spystyle]

HI
I am on a tight budget and I am considering a keyboard hack instead of IPAC...

I am fond of keyboard hacks myself But for almost the same price you can get a KeyWiz ECO, it's more accurate and saves tons of time.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=200





I recently tried the new one, it's super good

If you live outside of the US and can't get one mailed to you PM me, I'll send you one at actual cost (did I hear that GGG doesn't ship international? Did I bother reading through this whole thread? Is there any pizza left?)



KeyWiz Eco 40, it's what's for dinner

[RandyT]

Thanks for the plug, Spystyle.  Glad you like the new boards (you managed to get a photo out there before I did  ).  But we do ship internationally, and that quite often.

The thing for folks to understand is that there is more to the avoidance of keyboard hacks (and gamepad hacks to some extent as well) than just the time involved.  There can be, and often are, performance issues associated with them.  All keyboards and gamepads are not (let me stress that ....not) created equal.  The main processor used in specialized interfaces such as the KeyWiz or GP-Wiz costs more than what an entire gamepad costs me to buy from my suppliers.  Where do you think the money was saved?  I'll tell you....on the parts you can't see.  So the internals of a lot of these devices are poorly built, with the lowest quality components and the cheapest processor they can get away with.

A long, long time ago, my cabinet started out with a keyboard hack and a gamepad hack.  I thought it was fine, for the most part.  It wasn't until I built my first dedicated, performance oriented interface, and replaced those items with it, that I realized how big a difference there actually was.  Yes, if you are on an extremely tight budget, the hacks will get the job done.  But, if you can afford the difference in cost, why spend all of that time, only to end up with a result that will likely have mediocre performance, when it's so important and one of the lower cost items you will be buying for your machine?  I can see where some won't have a choice as whether to hack or not, especially in this economy,  and I'm certainly not knocking them for the decision to take that path.  But, for most, it just doesn't make good sense to hack anymore.

For those needing to, and looking for a reasonable gamepad to hack, our blue USB pads are easy and perform better than some.  I even made a nice diagram and posted it in one of the other threads (email me if you need it).  Just don't expect the same kind of performance from it that you would get from a dedicated interface.  It just won't be there.

RandyT

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
That makes sense about the hacks however I am wondering exactly what is the performance issues? I mean when you play with a real gamepad you hit the button and it works.. so why does it not do that with a hack?

I agree that it is time consuming to hack....

If you have that link to the diagram I would love to see it!  In regards to shipping, what is approx shipping rates to Canada?

thx
Jim

[RandyT]

That makes sense about the hacks however I am wondering exactly what is the performance issues? I mean when you play with a real gamepad you hit the button and it works.. so why does it not do that with a hack?

You can get groceries with a scooter, but that doesn't make it a car.  Or something like that.

There can be a host of issues depending on the quality of the electronics.  Everything from ghosting, blocking and low numbers of simultaneous button registrations to latency you can not only feel, but which can interfere with certain games where timing is crucial.

If you have that link to the diagram I would love to see it!  In regards to shipping, what is approx shipping rates to Canada?

linky

International shipping rates to Canada aren't bad if you aren't in a hurry.  We can also "de-case" the gamepad for you to save you some time.  The store has a shipping button that will let you preview the shipping costs for what you have in your cart. 

RandyT