U360 Spring Options and Observations

[SammyWI]

Back to the stickyness of the stick itself - or not self centering well.  I just swapped out the stiffer spring and went back to a stock setup - lighter spring and no restrictor.  Definitely reduces the sticky feeling of the stick and self centers much better.  Stands to reason I guess: less force pushing against the ball joint will reduce the frictional force.  Still don't like the long throw with no restrictor.  I'll probably put the circular restrictor back in with the stock spring, maybe mount it a little lower under the panel to shorten the stick.

[I/O]

Ok so I tried this all over again on a win 7 pc, my cab is xp and still have the same problem. So I/O could you attach the firmware file you used that was successful so I could try it?

Reason I'm asking as the 2.5 and 2.4 are the same size and this might be the case but for the added shift function I thought it might be a bit bigger than 2.4. This is just a shot in the dark.
 
Thanks Keg    

I doubt that is your issue, but here you go.

[SammyWI]

Ok so I tried this all over again on a win 7 pc, my cab is xp and still have the same problem. So I/O could you attach the firmware file you used that was successful so I could try it?

Reason I'm asking as the 2.5 and 2.4 are the same size and this might be the case but for the added shift function I thought it might be a bit bigger than 2.4. This is just a shot in the dark.
 
Thanks Keg    

I doubt that is your issue, but here you go.

That zip file won't unzip for me - reports as corrupted.  Unless that is just the 2.5 firmware with the extension changed to .zip for some reason?

[kegger]

I doubt that is your issue
[/quote]

Yea I agree as I finally was able to upgrade 1 stick but I can't get the other one to take the firmware so now I'm stuck and wondering what to do. I tried it on 3 different Pc's and the exact same problem on all of them,...Thinking it's now a hardware issue with this board on the joystick

[SammyWI]

I picked up a JLW spring and tried it in the U360.  Feels almost identical to the stock spring.  Maybe a touch stiffer but if you put them side by side, I'd never tell the difference.  So if the JLW stick has a stiffer feel than the stock U360, I'm guessing that the spring in the JLW is held compressed a bit more than the U360.  I don't have a JLW to try side by side or measure up.  There may be other factors too: Is the throw the same?  Stick length?  Etc?

So I'm thinking that you could fine tune a U360 by adding some extra washers to pre compress the spring more.  You might want to use nylon washers since Andy has posted that the stainless steel washer may be the cause of the metal shavings people are finding on their magnets.  Of course, self centering may suffer some with more spring tension.  FWIW, I measured my washer as .79" OD X .1345" ID X .02" thk.

Also, I still can't get my U360 to update the firmware to 2.5.  Emailed Andy and got the file direct from him but still no luck.  He did offer the update it for me if I send the board to him.  I'll probably just live with 2.4 or use an encoder for the buttons if it really ends up bothering me.

[kagaden]

I still haven't bothered updating to the new firmware, and I probably won't. The sticks are simply too frustrating to use. I've been playing around with the different games and even with Super Street Fighter II turbo there are some big problems trying to do quick shoryukens that a P360 or Microswitch joystick would have no problem picking up on. You seem to need to slow down your movements in order to get the move to come out. Or try doing quick super arts on Street Fighter III, it's a mess. 

I have a showcase cabinet and it may be that I'm running it through 2 usb 2.0 extension cords (1 per player) that makes the response slower. I'd test this theory, except that... even if it was the extension cords I wouldn't have any reasonable way of playing without them. I doubt longer cords would make much of a difference over extensions.

For now, I'm rewiring the cabinet & going back to microswitches and have an ipac on order from divemaster.

[kagaden]

Actually, I just got to thinking about it... maybe I'll try wiring the U360 in output mode instead to the iPac and see how that fairs first. I really love the idea of programmable maps, I just want the performance for fighters I'll post results if I decide to go that route after I get my new toys in: ipac2 & 100ftx10 (colors) of wire.

Seems like I can't help but tinker with the controls for this cab every 5-6 months -.-

[kegger]

I agree I haven't had great luck with fighters with the U360's but I never made a custom map for fighters either to see if that would help do the moves easier. One downfall to output mode is you lose the ability for analog control. I'm curous to how you make out though in output mode. 

[SammyWI]

I'm not into fighters, but just from your description of the moves, I wouldn't think the U360s would be a good choice.

I did order some washers to experiment with.  Some nylon and some PTFE (Teflon).  I'll report back on how the experiment goes.

[kronic24601]

Its likely I will be able to offer the new bush and chromed cup bearing as a kit eventually.

Yes please!

Yes please 2! 

[kagaden]

I'm not into fighters, but just from your description of the moves, I wouldn't think the U360s would be a good choice.

I did order some washers to experiment with.  Some nylon and some PTFE (Teflon).  I'll report back on how the experiment goes.

I thought they'd work as well as the P360's but aren't quite quick enough. I'm planning to just use the extended bat handle sanwa + microswitches now. I still really like the U360's and will be keeping them for another project down the line which is not fighter based, and where programmable maps will show it's stuff. Maybe in a couple candy cabs I'm setting up a deal for soon

[SammyWI]

Well adding washers was kind of a bust.  Adding just one .08" thick washer made the spring assembly too long to reassemble - couldn't get the c clip back on.  The most I could do was add one Teflon washer that is the same size as the stock washer (.02" thk).  Only a very slight difference in feel. 

[ivwshane]

I agree I haven't had great luck with fighters with the U360's but I never made a custom map for fighters either to see if that would help do the moves easier. One downfall to output mode is you lose the ability for analog control. I'm curous to how you make out though in output mode. 

If you don't make a custom map you really aren't seeing the beauty of these sticks. After making my custom map moves are so much easier to pull off in fighters.

[Bender]

I agree I haven't had great luck with fighters with the U360's but I never made a custom map for fighters either to see if that would help do the moves easier. One downfall to output mode is you lose the ability for analog control. I'm curous to how you make out though in output mode. 

If you don't make a custom map you really aren't seeing the beauty of these sticks. After making my custom map moves are so much easier to pull off in fighters.

Want to share that map?
you could post it here, I'd love to have an 8 way fighter map!!!!!

[kegger]

Yea, brother share that map for fighters I'll check it out   

[I/O]

For those interested in the mod Andy spoke of:

There is one aspect of the U360 which I am looking to improve further, namely the amount of free play in the handle in the center of travel. This requires a precision machined bush to be made and we are working on this. Its likely I will be able to offer the new bush and chromed cup bearing as a kit eventually.

Here is a comparison of the old bearing cup (left) vs new (right)

I asked him about this, and he said the stock would be available Monday (tomorrow).

[ivwshane]

Back up your original 8 way map first and then paste and save this into it (overriding whats already in there):

MapFileFormatVersion=1.0

MapSize=9
MapRow1=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow2=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow3=NW,NW,C,C,C,C,C,NE,NE
MapRow4=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow5=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow6=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow7=SW,SW,C,C,C,C,C,SE,SE
MapRow8=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE
MapRow9=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE




All I did was increase the dead zone which meant that large or small movements equaled the same thing making moves easier to pull off.

[kegger]

Thanks, I'll try it tomorrow   

[kagaden]

Back up your original 8 way map first and then paste and save this into it (overriding whats already in there):

MapFileFormatVersion=1.0

MapSize=9
MapRow1=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow2=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow3=NW,NW,C,C,C,C,C,NE,NE
MapRow4=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow5=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow6=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow7=SW,SW,C,C,C,C,C,SE,SE
MapRow8=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE
MapRow9=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE




All I did was increase the dead zone which meant that large or small movements equaled the same thing making moves easier to pull off.

That's actually the exact map I ended up settling on after a month of playing around with different ones. I still found the deadzone to be too small, but Andy's suggested adjustment for the map regions would be fix that up nicely.

Do you find the response time slow for quick movements? I can pull off a shoryuken in about (rough estimate) .2 seconds on a microswitch joystick... I need to typically half the speed of my joystick inputs to get them to register.

Additionally, it seems like 3 button moves don't work all that well. Like Gief's spinning lariat in SFII... SFIV it works alright because of lax input acceptance, but you can still see some button shenanigans on input display training mode.

[ivwshane]

Back up your original 8 way map first and then paste and save this into it (overriding whats already in there):

MapFileFormatVersion=1.0

MapSize=9
MapRow1=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow2=NW,NW,NW,N,N,N,NE,NE,NE
MapRow3=NW,NW,C,C,C,C,C,NE,NE
MapRow4=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow5=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow6=W,W,C,C,C,C,C,E,E
MapRow7=SW,SW,C,C,C,C,C,SE,SE
MapRow8=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE
MapRow9=SW,SW,SW,S,S,S,SE,SE,SE




All I did was increase the dead zone which meant that large or small movements equaled the same thing making moves easier to pull off.

That's actually the exact map I ended up settling on after a month of playing around with different ones. I still found the deadzone to be too small, but Andy's suggested adjustment for the map regions would be fix that up nicely.

Do you find the response time slow for quick movements? I can pull off a shoryuken in about (rough estimate) .2 seconds on a microswitch joystick... I need to typically half the speed of my joystick inputs to get them to register.

Additionally, it seems like 3 button moves don't work all that well. Like Gief's spinning lariat in SFII... SFIV it works alright because of lax input acceptance, but you can still see some button shenanigans on input display training mode.

Unfortunately I am not good enough to notice such minute differences:o

[kagaden]

Unfortunately I am not good enough to notice such minute differences:o

How about the 3x punch/kick button test? Zangief is pretty easy to try. It'd be great if I could narrow it to either the controllers or the PC.

[ivwshane]

Unfortunately I am not good enough to notice such minute differences:o

How about the 3x punch/kick button test? Zangief is pretty easy to try. It'd be great if I could narrow it to either the controllers or the PC.

What exactly would you like me to try (I don't use zangief)?

PM me so we don't clutter up the thread and then I'll post my results.

[ragnar]

Unfortunately I am not good enough to notice such minute differences:o

How about the 3x punch/kick button test? Zangief is pretty easy to try. It'd be great if I could narrow it to either the controllers or the PC.

What exactly would you like me to try (I don't use zangief)?

PM me so we don't clutter up the thread and then I'll post my results.

ACtually, post away.  I am finding hte conversation informative.

[fytr]

Hi all,

Sorry for the long delay since I set-out to try various spring combinations, but summer got in the way. 

So, over the last 4 months or so I've tried switching the Sanwa springs into my U360s, and stretching the stock U360 springs to make them stiffer as well. Both tests resulted in a soft-resistance stick which was still too soft IMHO. There must be something quite different in the run length or something with those springs in the Sanwa sticks.   

Last weekend I finally had a chance to install the new "precision machined bush"ings that Andy had generously sent me earlier in the summer (upon request). With the new bushings (?) and the hard springs that I had ordered with my U360s I am now fairly happy with the stick resistance and return-to-center characteristics. I also took the hard springs and compressed them in my vice, although not sure if that softened them up much or not. The sticks are certainly less stiff and better centering than when I originally installed them. I would say that they are perhaps still a little too stiff, but a reasonable compromise for most games.

I'm not much of a fighting game player, so I can't really comment on that aspect of their performance, but I'm liking them for DK, Robotron, Ms. Pacman, etc. that I typically play.

The idea of using a nylon washer to compress the spring is interesting, and something that I might try in the future, although I might expect that to *increase* the stick stiffness by pre-compressing the spring.

Thanks to everyone for their input on this issue, and in particular to Andy for the great upgrade to the bush!

I look forward to further observations and advice here. 

Regards,
  Ken

[Encryptor]

We have made a change to the design of the U360 around a month ago. It no longer has any silicone grease used at all in assembly. Instead, the cup bearing on the handle is chrome plated to eliminate friction without the need for grease.

There is one aspect of the U360 which I am looking to improve further, namely the amount of free play in the handle in the center of travel. This requires a precision machined bush to be made and we are working on this. Its likely I will be able to offer the new bush and chromed cup bearing as a kit eventually.

Andy

Andy - Any news on these? I looked on your site but didn't see them listed with the U360 stuff.

Will these work on any U360?

Thanks.

Encryptor

[Encryptor]

Andy? Anyone?

Encryptor

[ragnar]

I agree I haven't had great luck with fighters with the U360's but I never made a custom map for fighters either to see if that would help do the moves easier. One downfall to output mode is you lose the ability for analog control. I'm curous to how you make out though in output mode.  

If you don't make a custom map you really aren't seeing the beauty of these sticks. After making my custom map moves are so much easier to pull off in fighters.

Totally agree.  I actually went with new maps for 8 way games since diagonals were easy to hit accidentally.  I use the following where X is diagonal and * is center.  This works good for most 8 way games including fighters:

XXU UUU UXX
XXU UUU UXX
LL* *** *RR

LL* *** *RR
LL* *** *RR
LL* *** *RR

LL* *** *RR
XXD DDD DXX
XXD DDD DXX

I reduced the diagonal areas because it was to easy to accidentally jump diagonally.  This map resolved that issue.

I do have one big request of Andy if he is still reading this.  Please make some restrictors with a greater range of movement.  I think I read that no restriction iallows for 17 degree angles of the stick while the restrictor allows for 7-10 degrees.  Something like 13 degrees would be nice.  Allows for custom restriction but more sensitivity when being used in analog mode.

[kagaden]

Unfortunately I am not good enough to notice such minute differences:o

How about the 3x punch/kick button test? Zangief is pretty easy to try. It'd be great if I could narrow it to either the controllers or the PC.

What exactly would you like me to try (I don't use zangief)?

PM me so we don't clutter up the thread and then I'll post my results.

ACtually, post away.  I am finding hte conversation informative.

So, to update, I never did find out the cause of this mystery button stuff when hitting 3xpunch/kicks or dropped inputs when putting in fast motions like super arts in 3rd strike.

But rewiring the cabinet, changing back to a microswitch joystick, and using an I-pac is now flawless with performance.