OMG! A PC to Pinball Machine USB Interface.

[mark shaker]

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/

Has anyone here used this?

   - Mark

P.S. I never thought that I would *ever* type the letters "OMG", but I'm just that excited.

[Beretta]

OMG is right, does this mean what i think it means?

mame tables? or homebrewed NEW pin games?

well out of my league but awesome to think about at any rate.

[mark shaker]

OMG is right, does this mean what i think it means?

mame tables? or homebrewed NEW pin games?

Yup! It means real homemade Pinball Machines are possible for anyone willing to build a playfield and program the game rules.

   - Mark

[Ginsu Victim]

Cool, but nothing I'll ever attempt.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Yes. I have it.

Before any of y'all rush to buy it, you need to understand some basic programming and most importantly have a table design in mind. It is not something that is plug and play.

But I will say...a custom Tron pinball machine is in the works 

[Havok]

This would be great for a dead pin that you could bring back to life and have it work how you wanted. Looks like way too much work for me to bother though...

[drventure]

Oh wow.

Combine that with this type of LCD

http://www.hightech-edge.com/semi-transparent-lcd-screen/656/

and you could have a REAL pin, AND a virtual pin in the same box.

Ok, maybe not for a few more years, but, seriously, that's cool.

[SavannahLion]

Yes. I have it.

Before any of y'all rush to buy it, you need to understand some basic programming and most importantly have a table design in mind. It is not something that is plug and play.

But I will say...a custom Tron pinball machine is in the works 

How's the language? What are the options there?

[mark shaker]

Yes. I have it.

Could you give us a review?

   - Mark

[Benevolance]

How's the language? What are the options there?

Reading the site, it looks like you can pick a language of your choice. I don't believe it could possibly be that vague, sooo...

Could you give us a review?

x2

[mark shaker]

How's the language? What are the options there?

Reading the site, it looks like you can pick a language of your choice. I don't believe it could possibly be that vague, sooo...

Could you give us a review?

x2

This info provided by Gerry Stellenberg, the creator of the P-ROC, who is eagerly awaiting the approval of his arcadecontrols.com membership:

Regarding the software questions... we developed a low level API (open source, written in C/C++) that handles all of the low level communication with the P-ROC.  The API code is here: http://github.com/preble/libpinproc.  So people can write software in whichever language they want as long as they can talk to the C API.  The programmer can then issue commands like (shooter_coil.pulse() or lamp.schedule()) to make things happen on the playfield.

We have an example program showing how to interface to the board in C here: http://github.com/preble/libpinproc/blob/dev/examples/pinproctest/pinproctest.cpp.

We also have a feature rich, pinball software environment called pyprocgame.  It's open source and written in Python.  It is here: http://github.com/preble/pyprocgame.  This already handles most of the general pinball game functional (game starting/ending, player tracking, ball tracking, ball-trough logic, ball-save, ball-search, lampshows, coil driving, switch management, DMD text/animation rendering, etc).

The pyprocgame code comes with a sample starter game showing how to get started.  It is here: http://github.com/preble/pyprocgame/blob/master/games/starter/starter.py.  This starter game is completely playable, but there are no rules.  So you can start a game (even a multiplayer game), play through 3 balls, etc, but it won't activate any modes or special features.

We also have a custom Judge Dredd application that has a complex, commercial quality ruleset.  It is written to run on pyprocgame, and can be found here: http://github.com/preble/JD-pyprocgame

Everything we do is open source, and we have a number of people using the P-ROC in their own custom machines and others helping with the JD project.

We also just got pinMAME support working.  So if the P-ROC is in a real machine, you can play the original software on the machine by running pinMAME on the host computer.  It communicates properly with the real machine through the P-ROC board.  So we can choose to run our custom JD software or the real JD software by selecting which software to run on the host computer.

Feel free to visit the forums at http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum to see the ongoing discussions about the board and software.  I'll try to answer more questions as they arise here.

- Gerry

[Q*Bert_OP]

How's the language? What are the options there?

Reading the site, it looks like you can pick a language of your choice. I don't believe it could possibly be that vague, sooo...

Could you give us a review?

x2

Well, you can pick pretty much any language you want. I decided to begin in Python. That's what many of their tools are written in, for the time being. I have 2 years of training in Java and C++, so picking up Python was not all that hard. It's very similar except some of the syntax is a little simpler in Python.

I can't really give a detailed review. A couple months ago, Gerry was having a release party, so I got to see the Judge Dredd they've been working on in person. Being that their program isn't near complete, and I just started writing mine, I can't say much about the board, other than it does what it's supposed to do. My board has not been installed in a machine yet; my program is no where near ready, and I don't have my playfield built yet.

[Havok]

We also just got pinMAME support working.  So if the P-ROC is in a real machine, you can play the original software on the machine by running pinMAME on the host computer. 

OK, now it just went up a few notches in the coolness factor...

[gstellenberg]

Thanks Mark for posting this.  

If anybody has any other questions about the P-ROC or the open-source tools we're developing for pinball game development around the P-ROC, let me know.  There are a number of people using P-ROCs for their fully custom machines, and others are using them to retheme existing machines.  The interface library and tools are still maturing, and we are happy to hear suggestions on new ways to enhance them.

- Gerry

[The Habbler]

So I am assuming this is how they built Bill Paxton Pinball?
http://hackaday.com/2010/03/17/bill-paxton-pinball/

[SophT]

So I am assuming this is how they built Bill Paxton Pinball?
http://hackaday.com/2010/03/17/bill-paxton-pinball/

nope, he programmed his own from scratch on his own bread-board (of course he had a propeller to program):

http://benheck.com/03-16-2010/bill-paxton-pinball
http://benheck.com/bill-paxton-pinball-making-of

no PC involved

[rchadd]

using this would it be possible for pinmame to drive a dmd directly?

i am interested in whether its possible to use a real dmd as alternative to using 3 monitor setup for a visual pinball cabinet

 

[Paul Olson]

I haven't purchased one of these yet, but I am definitely intrigued. If I can pull a team together, I am going to try to use this for a school project. I have had a few questions, and Gerry has been great about answering them. It is great to see a product like this that is under continual development. I should be able to aford one to test out next month, so I am really excited to get started with this.

[gstellenberg]

using this would it be possible for pinmame to drive a dmd directly?

i am interested in whether its possible to use a real dmd as alternative to using 3 monitor setup for a visual pinball cabine

Interesting idea.  Yes, this is possible.  You would have to use a customized pinmame build (use P-ROC for DMD, use VP for table interface), but I could help you with that.  The downside, of course, is price (P-ROC + DMD).  I'd recommend using an LED-DMD to avoid requiring a high voltage power supply.

- Gerry

[rchadd]

using this would it be possible for pinmame to drive a dmd directly?

i am interested in whether its possible to use a real dmd as alternative to using 3 monitor setup for a visual pinball cabine

Interesting idea.  Yes, this is possible.  You would have to use a customized pinmame build (use P-ROC for DMD, use VP for table interface), but I could help you with that.  The downside, of course, is price (P-ROC + DMD).  I'd recommend using an LED-DMD to avoid requiring a high voltage power supply.

- Gerry

i see dmd's are pretty expensive

maybe cheaper alternative would actually be a second graphics card and simple lcd monitor

[rchadd]

i wonder...would it be possible to build yourself a dmd?

i mean its only lots of led's right?

i guess you need some interfacing electonics too

[Q*Bert_OP]

i wonder...would it be possible to build yourself a dmd?

i mean its only lots of led's right?

i guess you need some interfacing electonics too

A true gas filled DMD? The glass/cables costs $12 less than the whole assembly with pcb attached...

There are 4096 "dots" on a standard 128 x 32 DMD...that would be 8192 solder connections for just the LEDs, not counting the necessary resistors and driver ICs. I don't think it would be cost effective to make this by hand. PinLED already makes an LED DMD...that's what export Stern pins today ship with due to RoHS BS...the gas filled displays are hazardous...

[mark shaker]

i wonder...would it be possible to build yourself a dmd?

This guy did it: http://benheck.com/bill-paxton-pinball-making-of

   - Mark

[gstellenberg]

FYI - We will be at Pinball Expo in Chicago this year showing off the P-ROC.

We'll be presenting a seminar at 9:30 AM on Saturday: 10/23: "Custom Software Development with the
P-ROC & pyprocgame"

Following the seminar and for the rest of the day, we'll have a P-ROC running our custom JD software in a Judge Dredd machine.  Feel free to come by, play a few games, ask some questions, etc.  I'll have boards for sale there as well.  If you'd like to buy one, I'd recommend sending me a PM to reserve one since quantities will be limited.

See you at Expo!
- Gerry

[mark shaker]

FYI - We will be at Pinball Expo in Chicago this year showing off the P-ROC.

Gerry;

Real life has gotten in the way of my P-ROC project (as I know it would).

However I keep up with your developments by lurking at http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/.

I hope you can post a video of your presentation, for those of us who can't make it to the expo.

   - Mark

[Lilwolf]

Anyone see how much they cost?

I could see this for a few things.  Fix up a completely stripped table.  Or Adding new functionality to a completely dull table.  Sure home brews would be cool, but a LOT of work.  I have a cocktail pin in my garage that I though would be fun to fix up.... Then found how amazingly hard it was to get any parts for it.  I was considering just plugging everything up to power so it would work without any scores... but this might add some fun to it!

[mark shaker]

On the www.pinballcontrollers.com site it takes some clicking to find the price, but they are $329.

I think that the P-ROC would be great for your Cocktail Pinball project.

   - Mark

[RayB]

Has anyone ever explored using an Arduino controller?

[mark shaker]

Has anyone ever explored using an Arduino controller?

http://adampreble.net/blog/2009/12/arduino-pinball-dmd/

[gstellenberg]

I hope you can post a video of your presentation, for those of us who can't make it to the expo.

Mark, I'll definitely post whatever video we take.  In the meantime, here are a couple of short vids showing just a small bit of the JD software we'll be demo'ing with the P-ROC at Expo:




- Gerry
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com

[quadrider1]

this guy made his out of a 47 inch lcd, but is charging 3g for it.
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/vgm/1986140056.html

[lilshawn]

i'd have to say that the dmd effects are allot better than a standard pin.

the layered 3d scrolling background is pretty good, and i haven't seen anything like that yet.

guess having a computer directly control the DMD leaves it open to better and better graphics.

still... i think the orange DMD needs to go bye bye on pinballs... it's probably just as much to have an LCD put there nowadays. mmmmm color...

[mark shaker]

still... i think the orange DMD needs to go bye bye on pinballs...

The plasma DMDs are about $150, so a small LCD would be cheaper.

But it's not about the cost, it's about the tradition!

   - Mark

[lilshawn]

not to be pessimistic, but the tradition is what got pinball in the trouble it's currently in now.

kids nowadays don't care about orange graphics... they have been soiled by high definition this and terabytes that. if stern hopes to stay alive beyond the next machine release, they'd better start making the machines appeal to the younger crowd.

P.S. kids these days are obsessed with blue lights... let's make a DMD thats blue then.

P.P.S. TRADEMARK DIBS ON THE BLUE DMD!!! FIRST FIRST!!!!

[mark shaker]

not to be pessimistic, but the tradition is what got pinball in the trouble it's currently in now.

I'm not sure. A few disjointed thoughts on the subject:

How much innovation does it take before it's not pinball anymore? I'm not a fan of the Pinball 2000.

Stern exists because of the home market and not too many kids can cough up $5K for 1 game.

When ever one of my friends brings one of their kids over to my place, they walk right by the MAME cabinets and fire up a pinball machine. After all they have video games at home.

I started my homebrew pinball project before the P-ROC hit the market. (With luck I'll be finished around 2020.) I decided to put a 26" TV in the backbox, because I knew how to make stuff happen on a TV from a windows box and it's themed after a TV show anyway.

   - Mark

[gstellenberg]

Regardless of which direction designers choose to go with their homebrew machines, there are a lot of people simply wanting to re-theme their existing machines.  For those projects, the DMD is likely going to stay.  To make their lives easier, the pyprocgame framework has a lot of DMD support functionality to make it easy to render text and graphics. 

Interestingly, there are two P-ROC based projects I know about where the designers are actually installing DMD's into older, alphanumeric display machines:

Bride of Pinbot
Road Kings

Since a P-ROC based machine will include a computing element, the designer can choose between a monitor or a DMD (or even both).  Incidentally, the P-ROC can drive alphanumeric displays too.

- Gerry

[Q*Bert_OP]

P.P.S. TRADEMARK DIBS ON THE BLUE DMD!!! FIRST FIRST!!!!

Already exists... not ready for sale yet, but its already been done...

-edit-

I should mention its LED, not gas-filled glass

[lilshawn]

P.P.S. TRADEMARK DIBS ON THE BLUE DMD!!! FIRST FIRST!!!!

Already exists... not ready for sale yet, but its already been done...

-edit-

I should mention its LED, not gas-filled glass

i'd be interested in the plasma display... it would only be a matter of a different gas (maybe xenon) and maybe a slightly different composition of the anodes/cathodes. i don't think you would need to modify the power supply any for it to work.

i guess overseas from north america, they cant use the plasma DMD's due to the laws regarding hazardous materials or something of the like, therefore use LED displays that are RoHS compliant.

if you have a link to the LED blue DMD distributor i'd take a look for sure.

[mark shaker]

P.P.S. TRADEMARK DIBS ON THE BLUE DMD!!! FIRST FIRST!!!!

Already exists... not ready for sale yet, but its already been done...

-edit-

I should mention its LED, not gas-filled glass

Now, multi-color with nice big 8-bit style pixles. Now that would rock!


    - Mark

[gstellenberg]

Expo was a lot of fun.  The seminar went well, and the response we got to the P-ROC was excellent.  We should have the video edited in a week or two, and I'll post a link to it as soon as possible.

In the meantime, check out this video.  We've been helping the guys at Dutch Pinball for a while now with their P-ROC project, and they were kind enough to put the video together for our P-ROC seminar at Expo.  What they've been able to create is incredibly impressive!

- Gerry