How do U360's work in MAME? Head-spinning n00b question!!

[Diewrecked]

Hi guys

I've just started trying to get my U360's (firmware 2.3) to play nicely with my MAME (0.124). The instructions for the U360 say you just need to enable MAME to work with a joystick and it should work. I did that but it still didn't work: Ultimap picked up both sticks and I could see them moving in those little squares but my little frog in Frogger just wouldn't budge.

I eventually (having reset everything in MAME to default options and reconfigured everything again which was a Grade A PITA!!  ) sussed that changing default controls to up/down/left/right on Stick 1 for Player 1 would get the little guy to move. And I have to say they felt very nice with circular restrictors and hard springs so many thanks for those recommendations!

So my questions are basically based on how to set up these controls:

• Given I have set default game controls for Player 1 via Frogger for Stick 1 up/down/left/right am I going to need to do the same for a Player 2 game; for Player 1 and Player 2 diagonals; for two way up/down and two way left/right for both players etc? What about buttons? (haven't got that far yet!)
• I know that Ultimap comes preloaded with all the generic mappings (ie two way up/down, two way left/right, four way, eight way, four way diagonal etc) but how does MAME know which mapping to use for each particular game? Is this info stored in each game's CFG file? I'm guessing in that case I'll need a stack load of these files to go in my cfg folder but where do I get them from? Presumably this comes back to the first question with default.cfg? Alternatively if it's being passed via front end (ie effectively command line) how do I configure my front end to point to the right controls and mappings (I'm using the FPS in 3DArcade)? Again is there a stack of these I can download and dump into a folder somewhere?

Apologies if these seem like really obvious questions (I know you guys have been using these sticks for years, apparently really easily!  ) but it beats the hell out of me!!      

Many thanks in advance you guys  

[Ginsu Victim]

Set your stick to analog and allow MAME to use its own maps.

If you wish to use UltraMap, you need a frontend to load each map before the game starts (and to change it back after the game exits).

[Diewrecked]

Hi Ginsu

Thanks for coming back mate.

This is how it was last night: I set Ultramap to have both sticks analogue and closed it then opened my MAME, set default input layout as Standard and with Joysticks checked but still my little frog didn't move in Frogger until I went into the Tab menu and configured the Player 1 controls manually. Is there something I need to check/configure to tell MAME to use its own maps? Can I also confirm that the U360's will work with my version of MAME (0.124u5) please? It is rather old now - I'm happy to download the latest one with latest ROMs if it'll fix this issue.

[Ginsu Victim]

I was just trying to send off in the right direction. Maybe someone will come along that uses the MAME mapping (or you could search u_rebelscum's post), since I use UltraMap through Mamewah for everything.

[ubiquityman]

You've doing everything right.  Only your expectations need to change.

You still have to configure MAME to use the joystick's analog inputs.
The automatic analog mapping in MAME takes the analog inputs and translates them into digital signals based on internal maps.
 

[Diewrecked]

You still have to configure MAME to use the joystick's analog inputs.

Thanks Ubiquityman - sounds like as soon as I've done that I'll be home and dry. Ummmm, how do I do that please? In my MAMEUI32 Controllers tab I have set the Default Input Layout to Standard (choice of that or  hotrod; hotrodse; sample controller file; sample custom controller; various Slikstik options; Standard again and Xarcade), I have "Enable joystick input" and "Enable mouse input" both checked and multiple mice checked (touchpad on the keyboard, trackball and two spinners), and in my Controller Mapping tab I have everything set to Joystick except Mouse device, Dial device and Trackball device which are all set to Mouse. Currently all that works is four way on both players, presumably because that's what I set on Frogger to be default for all games. I just tried Commando and cannot do diagonals because they're not configured - shouldn't they "just work" when this is configured properly? I can't have to configure every game surely???

I was just trying to send off in the right direction. Maybe someone will come along that uses the MAME mapping (or you could search u_rebelscum's post), since I use UltraMap through Mamewah for everything.

Thanks for your help Ginsu - again Nice one fella.

[ubiquityman]

Start any game, hit the TAB key, the select to configure GENERAL controls for Player 1.

[Diewrecked]

Start any game, hit the TAB key, the select to configure GENERAL controls for Player 1.

That's what I did yesterday (for Frogger) - but what I'm asking is, isn't MAME bright enough (via its own mappings or the U360 ones) to work out which mappings are needed for which games? IE, four way for Frogger or DK; eight way for Commando; two way horizontal for Space Invaders; analogue for Space Harrier; four way diag for Qbert etc - or do I need to program them all separately once I've created an 8-way template? I thought the point of the U360 is that it could be any joystick for any game and it worked it all out on the fly? How do I tell Space Harrier to act as analogue?

Is it becuase my MAME is so old (0.124)? Happy to download 0.136...?

Thanks again for all your help Ubiquityman - and apologies if these are dumb questions!

[ubiquityman]

You can configure it ONCE under General, or you can do it over and over and over again for each game individually.

If you do it under once under the General settings and wipe out the individual configs, that'll cover the bulk of the games.

(If I'm not answering your question properly, let me know. I suspect we're talking past each other a bit.)

[Diewrecked]

You can configure it ONCE under General

Hi Ubiquityman,

That's exactly what I did - like I said it works to a level, ie, the config you do for that one game is propagated across into every other game unless you configure that particular game specifically - I get that (and like you said that does break the back of all the input configs). However, I was under the impression that whatever game you threw at the U360, MAME (or the driver?) was able to work out which mapping to use itself and just use it (as in my last post, four way for Frogger or DK; eight way for Commando; two way horizontal for Space Invaders; analogue for Space Harrier; four way diag for Qbert etc). Assuming this is in fact NOT the case then, do you have to specify each non-standard setup individually? And if so, where are the settings stored and is there a repository somewhere online to download them all? Also (and this is the bit I really don't get), how do you specify a game to use a REAL analogue input (eg Space Harrier or Star Wars or something, I know that the latter won't control right but it's just an example) if you can only specify digital directions in that dialogue?

Many thanks for your continued patience Ubiquityman, I know it must be frustrating for you trying to get my head around this!!!  

ADDITIONAL
Ubiquityman I've just found these posts from you in the thread about the Mala plugin for the U360:

you shouldn't need to.  Mame does the mapping for you on an analog joystick.

My point was that MALA is not required for joystick mapping if you are using an analog joystick.
MAME takes care of that internally.

THIS is what I'm talking about: how do I tell MAME that I'm using an analogue joystick? Am I right in thinking that if I can get this sorted out that everything else will take care of itself?

Thanks again.

[ubiquityman]

Let me see if I can answer your questions one by one....

However, I was under the impression that whatever game you threw at the U360, MAME (or the driver?) was able to work out which mapping to use itself and just use it (as in my last post, four way for Frogger or DK; eight way for Commando; two way horizontal for Space Invaders; analogue for Space Harrier; four way diag for Qbert etc).

Yes, that's essentially what MAME does.
You don't map the analog joystick.
MAME just reads the analog values and decides what to do with them.

Assuming this is in fact NOT the case then, do you have to specify each non-standard setup individually?

In general, you shouldn't have to do this.  If for some reason you did, let me understand what the reason is.
For me, where I need to configure games individually is for button layout or spinner gain/sensitivity.

And if so, where are the settings stored and is there a repository somewhere online to download them all? Also (and this is the bit I really don't get), how do you specify a game to use a REAL analogue input (eg Space Harrier or Star Wars or something, I know that the latter won't control right but it's just an example) if you can only specify digital directions in that dialogue?

MAME has different categories of inputs.
- Digital Inputs, Analog Inputs, Spinners, etc
If the game requires analog inputs, it picks up the inputs to use from the analog input selection.
If the game requires digital inputs, it picks up the inputs to use from the digital input selection.

What you want to do is to configure these inputs for the U360 under GENERAL use so that they apply to all games.

Try this:
Configure the [General Player 1 Controls] digital input for Pac Man (I think you've done this already).
Configure the [Analog Controls] analog joystick for Sinistar. (Although somewhat misleading during play, the arcade game uses a 49-way joystick, thus this is a good match for the analog joystick)
Configure the [Analog Controls] spinner for Tempest.
The "Analog Controls" settings will be different from Tempest and Sinistar, even though the heading is the same.

I suggested these 3 for example because they use completely different inputs.

Under each of those games, look at the individual, game specific configuration, to understand what the games uses, but configure the GENERAL settings for the ANALOG controls, for example.
I think this might give you a better idea of how it works.

Now you could configure PacMan to use the trackball, or you could configure Sinistar to use the digital joystick (and lose the analog control capability), or Tempest to use the digital joystick but that's not optimal for play.

THIS is what I'm talking about: how do I tell MAME that I'm using an analogue joystick? Am I right in thinking that if I can get this sorted out that everything else will take care of itself?

So again, this is just to set expectations to make sure we're on the same page.
1. MAME does not "download" anything to the U360.  It uses the analog inputs and does the mapping internally in the program.
2. You tell MAME to use the analog joystick by configuring the general Player 1 settings (or individual game settings) for the analog joystick.  If you configure the general settings, you only need to do this once.
3. You tell MAME to use the analog joystick by configure the general Analog Controls settings for the analog joystick when you have a game loaded that uses the analog joystick.  You should only need to do this once.

Does that help?
Once again, I think we're talking past each other a bit, and once you "get it", you're going to realize that it's really quite simple.

[Diewrecked]

GOT IT!!! GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT !!! And it only took putting it into really, really small words for it to get there!!!

Many thanks for your help Ubiquityman! 

Right. My confusion was twofold. Firstly I was under the impression that "Analog controls" was going to be somewhere in the Default Game Options in the main MAMEUI32 front end - I thought setting various inputs to Mouse was doing it - of course it wasn't. Secondly I was under the impression that the menu you get when you hit the Tab key was universal - of course it isn't. When I hit Tab in Frogger there was no Analog Controls option because, of course, there are no analogue controls - when I hit it in Arkanoid, Tempest, Sinistar or Space Harrier of course it is there and tweakable.

This now leads me to an earlier question:

[snip]
do you have to specify each non-standard setup individually? And if so, where are the settings stored and is there a repository somewhere online to download them all?

Now, I have discovered that each individual game's settings are stored in a CFG file in the CFG folder (even if they're unchanged a generic file is generated when the game is first launched). Assuming everyone must have to make the same changes to the same games that deviate from the norm, ie, sensitivity settings for Arkanoid and Tempest; four way diag for Qbert etc, is there somewhere online that these CFG files can be downloaded and simply dumped into my CFG folder or is each install/version different? I'm pretty much there now with the exception of 4-way diags on Qbert but I'm going to raise a new thread about that.

Thanks again for all your help Ubiquityman.  Nice one 

[ubiquityman]

I've not seen a set of config files, but that's a good bad idea.
Generally, they are not necessary, but I would say that qbert is one of the exceptions where an alternate config is necesssary.
Ideally, it'd be nice if MAME automatically mapped this properly when it sees an analog joystick.