Is Mad Dog McCree invincible or what?

[crashwg]

I picked up the gunslinger pack for the Wii the other day and have played through the first game a few times now up to the final showdown with Mad Dog.  I gather from the tip that he wears a bullet proof vest that you have to shoot him in the head so that's what I'm doing but he just will NOT go down!  I've even resorted to cheating by covering the lens of the Wii remote for the reload then quickly uncovering it for the head-shot but it seems like his face is also bullet proof!  WTF!

If the the Wii version is arcade accurate, I can see how this game must have been a quarter muncher back in the day...  I just spent a half hour trying over and over to take that mofo down to no avail.

[ark_ader]

Quicker to throw your Wii remote at the tv.  I'm sure you will get him that way. 

[Malenko]

you have to shoot him in the head after he says his line "something about  goodbye varmit" or something, then a second time when he goes for his other gun

[Howard_Casto]

If the the Wii version is arcade accurate, I can see how this game must have been a quarter muncher back in the day... 

Although I commend Digital Leisure for keeping these old LD games in production, arcade accuracy is not their strong point.  Basically they own the rights to the games and the footage, but the original source code was long gone by the time they got ahold of them.  Because of this, their games are almost always coded from scratch.  Not only that, but they are re-made every single time a new port comes out.  I mean the wii version is so hacked up that they've added simultaneous 4 player support to a 1 player game!  Long story short, while they try, about the only thing that is the same on each port of a DL title is the video footage.

[northerngames]

mad dog ending spoiler...............................


































shoot his gun hand first then between the eye's!!!!!  

[Haze]

I gave up at the same point 15 years ago on my Pentium-75.  Was totally ridiculous.

and there you have the problem with LD games.  They're pre-sequenced videos ..  Doing what's logical is never the right thing.  You just have to do what the game is expecting, at the time it's expecting so that it can play the next sequence.

I'm surprised they keep bothering to remake and rerelease them, because they really have no gameplay value at all.

[northerngames]

I got the whole collection to play on a 39" with aimtraks and family & freinds still love them.

sure if you already dumped all your change years ago in the arcade the replay value may be lame for some nowaday's but for the new comers or younger crowd that never seen nor played them there still alot of fun.

I tried them on my VW246H 1080P LCD and the picture look's terrible but on the 39" showcase running a arcadevga it look's perfect.

playing with a mouse or trackball defaets the whole feel of it too.

I still don't know why ALG or DL never took them type of games further with today's tech and special effect's I am sure they could make some sick shooter's and with today's PC power & hdd size's no scene would play the same way twice type thing or with the now huge disk space on blue ray disk they could make the all new Blue Ray ALG disk system that now has that much more space and power then it did back when?

however I do agree they need to stop remaking them and start making new one's all over again.

[DJ_Izumi]

I got the whole collection to play on a 39" with aimtraks and family & freinds still love them.

sure if you already dumped all your change years ago in the arcade the replay value may be lame for some nowaday's but for the new comers or younger crowd that never seen nor played them there still alot of fun.

I tried them on my VW246H 1080P LCD and the picture look's terrible but on the 39" showcase running a arcadevga it look's perfect.

playing with a mouse or trackball defaets the whole feel of it too.

I still don't know why ALG or DL never took them type of games further with today's tech and special effect's I am sure they could make some sick shooter's and with today's PC power & hdd size's no scene would play the same way twice type thing or with the now huge disk space on blue ray disk they could make the all new Blue Ray ALG disk system that now has that much more space and power then it did back when?

however I do agree they need to stop remaking them and start making new one's all over again.

They did.  It's called 'Heavy Rain'.

[northerngames]

not really it looke like no other ALG game I seen I mean the actual video type games like mad dog 1 & 2 drug wars last bounty hunter etc.

there is already hundred's of comapanys since then and current that make games that look like video games that everybody and their brother make nobody makes games that look like a video/movie like they did back then.

they did try it with the original need for speed but same thing that was some very old hardware back then lets try it again with today's tech and I bet NFS in the real video environment & it would be sick.

[Haze]

I got the whole collection to play on a 39" with aimtraks and family & freinds still love them.

sure if you already dumped all your change years ago in the arcade the replay value may be lame for some nowaday's but for the new comers or younger crowd that never seen nor played them there still alot of fun.

I tried them on my VW246H 1080P LCD and the picture look's terrible but on the 39" showcase running a arcadevga it look's perfect.

playing with a mouse or trackball defaets the whole feel of it too.

I still don't know why ALG or DL never took them type of games further with today's tech and special effect's I am sure they could make some sick shooter's and with today's PC power & hdd size's no scene would play the same way twice type thing or with the now huge disk space on blue ray disk they could make the all new Blue Ray ALG disk system that now has that much more space and power then it did back when?

however I do agree they need to stop remaking them and start making new one's all over again.

They did.  It's called 'Heavy Rain'.

I don't know if you were joking, but I'm actually inclined to agree with quite a few new games.  They're like movies where you take part in a couple of set-plays, and really are reverting to the lack of actual gameplay and adventure that I associate with real games.  Uncharted 2 is a great movie, with bits you can play too, but once you've played it you're not left with much reason to play it again for a long time because all the surprises are gone and there weren't really any worthwhile choices to make in the game.  There is a certain irony that this type of game is exactly what creates a large 2nd hand market, the very market they want to kill, but at the same time they seem almost scared of providing games with everlasting appeal (unless they can charge a subscription) because if people have a game they're still playing they're seen as less likely to buy another one.  I'll still play San Andreas to this day because it was that damn good (don't mention IV tho.)

But honestly, sure, the LD games looked great for their time, but simply remembering to press a direction on a joystick or shoot at the screen at the very specific time when the game wants you to, often with no way of learning other than trial and error (otherwise it would be too easy) doesn't make for a lasting experience and if you strip away the visuals you're left with games with less depth than 'Simon'.

[Malenko]

Seriously, guys, didn't any of you play SegaCD?  Do you REALLY want FMV games to make a comeback?

REALLY?

shoot the tubes dogmeat!



I LOVED my sega CD. Prize Fighter was neat (very raging bull), Supreme Warrior was cool, Slam City sucked donkey boners and Sewer Shark was a cake walk when you learned the trick to beating it (dont fire the gun unless you have to, to save power)   They may have been the same premise as Dragon's Lair but there was much more to do and the randomness of the clips kept you from memorizing a pattern.

They arent anymore complex then the Quick Time events in a lot of games today, like God Of War but they were pretty for when they came out.

[northerngames]

with today's tech and hdd size's yes please do.

also do you know the difference between a movie with real actors in it and a charector in a disney cartoon.

comparing heavy rain to mad dog is kind of the same there not even the same video mad dog has real people with real house's & horse's heavy rain has cartoons.

with todays tech the game would not be the same thing everytime you play with the hdd size & blue ray hd we have now they could make it where the same game never plays twice that technoligy has been around for awhile now and there still doing it in games like left 4 dead.

add that with new HD video all randomized and you have something that is current and totally different then anything out there becuase it is real people cars etc.

when you want a game to look real what do you compare it with?

[Haze]

with today's tech and hdd size's yes please do.

also do you know the difference between a movie with real actors in it and a charector in a disney cartoon.

comparing heavy rain to mad dog is kind of the same there not even the same video mad dog has real people with real house's & horse's heavy rain has cartoons.

with todays tech the game would not be the same thing everytime you play with the hdd size & blue ray hd we have now they could make it where the same game never plays twice that technoligy has been around for awhile now and there still doing it in games like left 4 dead.

add that with new HD video all randomized and you have something that is current and totally different then anything out there becuase it is real people cars etc.

when you want a game to look real what do you compare it with?

Real != better..

The game you describe would be completely unplayable, the only way you can play the existing LD games is by learning them. (ie know that you are playing the same game twice)

They'd still suffer from the same problem of requiring the right action at exactly the right moment because a real person and flim can't create footage that seemlessly merges into another path for every possible moment of the film (CG rendered stuff can, but that's not what you were saying, and if you're doing CG rendered you may as well make a real game, not use video footage)

Things like the CDI and SegaCD were a complete disaster, because Sega / Phillips foolishy decided that CGI was the future.  Even in the cases where they did add branching paths the games were *terrible*  Both of them decided graphics were more important than gameplay, and for some reason that footage of real things was more imporant than well drawn sprites etc.  It was a bad idea, that created bad games, and even new technology won't change that, they'll just look a bit nicer.

The only thing pre-recorded video gives you is a severely limited game experience, and if you mix it with overlay graphics to create something closer to a real game (mach 3 etc.) there is still no way you're going to have proper interaction between video and gameplay which is in any way comparable to modern games.

Basically you'd be trading everything good that exists in games in exchange for some more realistic looking graphics, and in every case where that's been done before, even when not applied to LD / Video technology the gameplay quality has been degraded.  Take Deus Ex 2, it looked great compared to Deus Ex, but they traded large expansive interactive environments for smaller, more static, but higher detail ones.  The universal opinion?  That it sucked.  FMV based games are just a further step in that direction, sure you can have real visuals, but you trade ALL the gameplay for it.

If you want real, go outside...

[northerngames]

I did not mean remake them all again for a 10th time as I already said prior they need to stop remaking them and make new one's meaning completely new alg games not another dragons lair remake again.

completely remove the old gameplay where the controllers work like they do on games today.

we also are more then capable of merging film with no effort today it was limited back then sure but now no way with hdd size blue ray hd size and the pc power today they do it with ease in the movie's and have been for some time now and it's only getting better.

how many things were merged in the latest star wars and avatar again?

now I dont mean the charectors and how they look I mean how they merged the video with real people in them.

[DJ_Izumi]

Heavy Rain is essentually the modern version of the FMV game.  It takes quick time events and uses it as the key way to drive an entire game.  Only instead of using pre-rendered video it's rendered live in the machine adding a lot more flexibility to the presentation.

You've seen the same with FMV rail shooters, they went to real time 3D graphics to offer greater flexibility in the game.

[Haze]

Heavy Rain is essentually the modern version of the FMV game.  It takes quick time events and uses it as the key way to drive an entire game.  Only instead of using pre-rendered video it's rendered live in the machine adding a lot more flexibility to the presentation.

You've seen the same with FMV rail shooters, they went to real time 3D graphics to offer greater flexibility in the game.

It just dropped off my 'to buy' list then, I doubt I'll even consider renting such a game.

[Malenko]

TomCat Alley and Ground Zero , Texas were still fun games.

[DJ_Izumi]

It just dropped off my 'to buy' list then, I doubt I'll even consider renting such a game.

...How was it on your 'To Buy' list in the first place when you didn't even know about the core mechanic to the game?  Any research on the title would have revealed that.

[Haze]

It just dropped off my 'to buy' list then, I doubt I'll even consider renting such a game.

...How was it on your 'To Buy' list in the first place when you didn't even know about the core mechanic to the game?  Any research on the title would have revealed that.

Because I like to give games the benefit of the doubt, and not have any expectations based on previews or biased reviews, especially for exclusives.  If i don't like the game I'll usually trade it in for close to retail price within the first 2 weeks anyway.  However, based on what's been said here I'm glad I didn't bother.

I've seen so many games billed as things they simply aren't that I don't trust (or even take notice of anymore) anything I read prior to a game coming out.  Things are on my 'To Buy' list by default, so that I can experience them first hand, unless there is something that REALLY puts me off them, as is the case here.  I buy a lot of games, although the way the industry is heading that may soon stop just as it has with PC games due to the protection schemes and abysmal porting.

[Malenko]

It just dropped off my 'to buy' list then, I doubt I'll even consider renting such a game.

...How was it on your 'To Buy' list in the first place when you didn't even know about the core mechanic to the game?  Any research on the title would have revealed that.

Because I like to give games the benefit of the doubt, and not have any expectations based on previews or biased reviews, especially for exclusives.  If i don't like the game I'll usually trade it in for close to retail price within the first 2 weeks anyway.  However, based on what's been said here I'm glad I didn't bother.

I've seen so many games billed as things they simply aren't that I don't trust (or even take notice of anymore) anything I read prior to a game coming out.  Things are on my 'To Buy' list by default, so that I can experience them first hand, unless there is something that REALLY puts me off them, as is the case here.  I buy a lot of games, although the way the industry is heading that may soon stop just as it has with PC games due to the protection schemes and abysmal porting.

Why not download the free demo and see if its your cup of tea?

[Haze]

Why not download the free demo and see if its your cup of tea?

That would mean moving my machine out of the games room, downstairs where there is reliable internet access, the wireless is too unreliable.  It would also take ages, because even then I don't have a very fast connection, and will no doubt hit traffic limits during the download which will make it even slower.

Basically, it's not worth my time, it's frustrating enough not being able to do offline-installer downloads of the PS3 game updates.  Would be nice to be able to download them at work, stick them on a USB stick, and install them later.

[Malenko]

yeah it would. the demo is 1.3GB  I didnt like it, but my GF did, so shes gonna buy it.

[shmokes]

Because I like to give games the benefit of the doubt, and not have any expectations based on previews or biased reviews, especially for exclusives.

Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want to have your purchasing decisions guided by really in-depth, detailed reviews.  Why have your actions dictated by a broad consensus among critics (Heavy Rain Metacritic score: 88) when you could make a definitive decision based on the off-hand remarks of a single anonymous person on a message board who, as far as you know, has never even played it?  I don't mean that he might be lying; I mean that he never said he has played it.  

Heavy Rain might turn out to be awful, but for someone who "like(s) to give games the benefit of the doubt" it sure seems like you're quick to jump to conclusions.

[shmokes]

BTW, here's the sort of thing you get from actual reviews . . . ask yourself if this sounds like FMV:

You interact with the world through a non-traditional control scheme: Holding down R2 lets you walk around the environments and the Left analog stick changes directions. At best, this process is cumbersome and by far the weakest part of the experience. [shmokes' note: god, doesn't this just sound bought-and-paid-for by Sony . . . ?  It's never out and out bad, but I was never completely comfortable doing it either. When trying to maneuver around a desk or chair I'd often find my character pacing back and forth because there seemed to be a small amount of input lag when changing directions.

The other part of the control scheme lies in your interaction with the environment. This is accomplished by following on-screen prompts to press face buttons, performing motions with the Right analog stick, and sometimes using Sixaxis control movements. Again, it might seem clunky on paper, but it's elegant in execution. If you have the opportunity, I would absolutely implore you to play this game with a DualShock 3 controller; I don't think any game has used the rumble feature this effectively since the original Metal Gear Solid.

The motions and button presses don't always directly correlate to the motions of your character, rather they approximate the feeling of those actions. In one instance I had to struggle to get my character up a muddy hillside. By holding a series of buttons down in a finger-twisting series of motions, I actually felt like I didn't have a firm foothold -- it's little things like this that help further your immersion into the world.

That's from 1up's review.  Here are a few more quotes from the review:

There were moments in Heavy Rain where I found my heart rate rising -- not because of a cheap, momentary fright caused by something like a dog jumping through a window in Resident Evil, but because of a sustained level of tension that would leave my hands shaking. Heavy Rain portrays pain, suffering, and death with a stark frankness that doesn't elevate horror as something to be entertained by. Instead, you're regularly put in positions where you must choose between two equally horrific outcomes.

At the end of my first playthrough I was left utterly satisfied with the conclusion of the story and wanting more titles of this caliber.

Heavy Rain will most likely not make you cry. It does, however, provide one of the most emotional experiences I've ever had playing a videogame.

edit: added link to the review