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Author Topic: Double Dragon preservation & conversion  (Read 11417 times)

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smalltownguy

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Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« on: February 06, 2010, 02:03:27 pm »
So I've got this buddy who has a pretty nice looking Double Dragon cab that I'd like to get my hands on. DD was one of my favorites. It's the nice version, with the 25" monitor.

***edit on 2/23/10...it only has a 19" monitor ***

I've been searching for a good candidate cab to upgrade my Mame setup to something that will make my AimTrak shine. I needed a cab with a fairly large monitor with little tilt. I had toyed with the idea of building my own with a TV, but I'm just too lazy  :afro:

My question is this: if I preserve the integrity of the cab -- remove and keep all of the original controls, PCB, power supply, etc and not mar any of the cab itself with new holes, is it acceptable to Mame this cab? My intention would be to preserve the ability to turn it back into a dedicated DD cab if I ever wanted to let it go again, which I could very easily do. Or is that still just not kosher?

I'm really trying to avoid bad karma here. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 10:04:49 pm by smalltownguy »
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

BobA

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 03:20:29 pm »
I'm sure that with the care you are taking to make it reversible that no one will complain.   It's you cab and you are the primary one to please so go for it.  ;D

southpaw13

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 04:26:18 pm »
Your money, your cabinet, you have the rights to do whatever you want with it.  All of mine "look" original, but are Mamed.  I even leave the original board in it just to say I own the original roms.  Try to leave the original control panel alone...or do what I do and buy a duplicate that you can hack up  :cheers:

javeryh

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2010, 05:22:28 pm »
Do what you've got to do.  I've got a pretty sweet Donkey Kong cabinet that looks factory fresh but runs MAME.  The control panel is original and no one can tell otherwise unless they are actually playing it.  Sure, I could say that it is reversible to it's original state if I were to find an old Sanyo monitor and the PCB but in reality you will have to pry it from my cold dead hands before I ever let that happen.   :cheers:

SlayerAlex

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2010, 05:53:25 pm »
Your money, your cabinet, you have the rights to do whatever you want with it. 

same way i feel. If i ever get super rich i plan on buying an origional "Computer Space" and MAMEing it up

CrazyKongFan

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 12:46:46 am »
Double Dragon is probably JAMMA, so you could always get a J-PAC (which I think lets you hook up your PC to a JAMMA compatible machine). You'd need to make sure you had a video card that could handle the arcade resolution. But then you wouldn't really even need to hack into the cabinet....make a spot for your PC, and just hook it into the JAMMA harness in the cab :)

angryred

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Re: Your thoughts on mameing a dedicated cab if it's reversible?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 02:56:15 pm »
If you want to make a more versatile control panel, it's probably not that hard to remove the existing control panel without damaging it or the machine. Once you've got that off, you can design your panel to attach to the cabinet in the same way, and if it needs additional support, you work within the area covered by the original panel.  Then you can transplant whatever controls you like from the old panel to the new, or go with all-new controls.

Beyond that, cosmetically, all you really have to/can do is change the marquee.  There's plenty of room inside most 80's cabinets, so you can mount whatever PC components you need without having to disturb the original board setup. Just reroute the sound and video however you plan to do that, and you're good to go. So now, when you want to go back, all you have to do to get it looking right again is switch out the control panel and marquee. Then you yank your extra stuff from inside, and plug the old connections back up.

I wasn't so tender with the old Phoenix cab I used. It had been through multiple violent conversions over the years; a plywood box inside made for a vertical-to-horizontal monitor kludge, several half-inch holes had been drilled straight through the side panels, side-art was long gone but the adhesive wasn't quite, etc. I did try not to make it worse, but it's not as though it was a pristine Phoenix when I started. Now, I have an old Super Cobra that's all original; it's a bit beat up, but all it would take to make it look sweet is some fresh t-molding and paint (Stern cabinet's an easy stencil). I need to sell it before we move, but I fear for its fate.

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 07:35:28 pm »
Okay, I've finally got the cab in my garage. Of course for kicks, I want to see if I can get the DD board working, so I can store it in my collection  ;D

Inspection revealed that the 'main' fuse is missing. I tried swapping the monitor fuse in place just to see if I could get the board to fire, but when I tried to twist lock the fuse cap in place, I realized that a part of the fuse sleeve has broken, preventing me from locking in a new fuse. *grrr*

Here's a few pics of the fuse assembly. Anyone know where I can get a replacement?






The second pic shows the broken assembly in back, with the correct fuse and cap from the 'still good' fuse assembly for the monitor line.

Sure, I could just grab any old in-line fuse holder from the Rat Shack, but why not try for an OEM replacement, right?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 07:36:59 pm by smalltownguy »
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

RayB

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 05:34:59 pm »
Radio Shack, or your equivalent electronics parts place. Surplus stores usually have em for under a buck.

You should post a photo, cuz Double Dragon didn't come in a dedicated cabinet, except for this rare cabinet (which definitely did not have a 25"):

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7619

NO MORE!!

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 06:01:55 pm »
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7619


Yep, that's my cab. Someone in the past painted over part of the TAITO side art, but it's an original. It's got a 19" monitor it it. I'll be swapping it with a Sony 24" WEGA when I covert it.

DigiKey had my fuse holder for $3. I needed some driver transistors for an LCD monitor I'm working on, so I didn't even really need to worry about shipping.

I'll get some pics up tonight.

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

CheffoJeffo

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 06:15:28 pm »
 :'(
Working: Not Enough
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smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 09:21:14 pm »
:'(
Why so sad, Cheffo?

Here's a few pics of the cab:


The cab. Here you can see where someone painted black over the TAITO sideart. I may repaint it to it's original colors, should I decide to keep it as a DD.



Monitor


Serial No



The PCB. I think something needs attention, based on my last pic:



Here's what I get when I turn it on. Each power cycle produces a different scatter of polygons. Can anyone guide me on where I should start troubleshooting this board? At first I was going to restore the board and pull it, but after seeing how nice the monitor looks (nearly ZERO burn in) I'm thinking of sprucing this cab up and leaving it alone.
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

allroy1975

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 04:27:10 pm »
I had toyed with the idea of building my own with a TV, but I'm just too lazy


I commend you on your laziness.   :cheers:
They have the FAST Ms. Pac-Man!  MOM!  Can I have a quarter!??

CheffoJeffo

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 04:33:05 pm »
:'(
Why so sad, Cheffo?

It's not a cab that would end up in my collection ... I sold the DD I had long ago as it has little replay value.

But, the dedicated cab is rare, so it is sad to see one go.
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smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 05:04:08 pm »
Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I might want to keep the DD as is. I got it for a great price ($100) and if I can get the boards working again, I'd like to keep it. The control panel is in decent shape, the controls are working, and the monitor is nice, bright, and clean.

Perhaps I will end up building a new cab after all. Meh. In the mean time, I will start cleaning up the PCB to see if I can get it to work.

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

RayB

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 08:19:24 pm »
Measure the voltage. The +5v being most important. If it's lower than that, adjust it up to +5v.
I doubt it's that simple, but its a start.
NO MORE!!

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 08:53:16 pm »
Okay, I think I can do that. So really the only measuring device at my immediate disposal is an analog multimeter. Using that, I see over 15 volts on the 5v line, and over 30 on the 12 volt? Is that right? It can't be. I should probably get my hands on a digital meter.

When a power supply like this is horked, will it output TOO much voltage? I'd have figured that the opposite would be the case: bad PS, no juice.

Cycling the power gives me random garbled images like the one shown above, with random game sounds playing.

I have a buddy with a working game that I could probably borrow his PS to test with my board. I'll report back with what I see.
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2010, 10:03:49 pm »
Okay, so I'm an idiot. I finally figured out how to read my multimeter. I had to test it on my computer's power supply to understand it. I'm fairly confident that the 12v and 5v lines are pretty close to 12 and 5.

I noticed that there are capacitors on the game PCB's. Is it worth trying to replace them, or is there some other method of attack I should employ?

Remember, I can get random game sounds and garbled picture to come up each time I cycle the power.
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 09:54:35 am »
I got a little closer look at the PCB today. When I was cleaning it last week, I noticed one little area where there was some gunk on the board, most likely rodent pee or something like that. There was a little bit of corrosion. Closer inspection after cleaning revealed that some of the traces are damaged. Here's a pic:



I suppose the only way to really fix this is to jumper the traces with wire? I've never done it, but I think I could do it.

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill here? Or is this a legitimate concern?

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 10:31:25 pm »
Well, I was able to jumper most of what I could tell (or at least, what the multi meter could tell me) needed it, and now I can get the board to boot.

It's still unstable, though, freezing often, rebooting at various intervals, and barely accepting inputs. I think I may have missed a jumper connection somewhere.

But at least I'm getting closer.....

Oh where oh where have the schematics gone, oh where oh where could they be.......

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

RayB

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2010, 01:52:54 am »
There might not be any schematics for it. The big name manufacturers included them with their games in the early 80's but that practice came to an end as they got more and more protective of their hardware (blame the bootleggers!)
NO MORE!!

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2010, 07:27:47 am »
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

HaRuMaN

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2010, 09:22:19 am »
Does that board have any socketed chips?  You can try removing them (GENTLY!) and cleaning the legs, then reseating them in the sockets.  Sometimes helps.

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2010, 09:40:10 am »
Yeah, there's close to 2 dozen socketed chips on that board. I've removed and reseated them once, but I have not cleaned the legs. The sockets are double sided sweeps, so I should be making good contact.

Since I continue to make progress by tracking down and repairing broken traces, I'm going to continue down that road to see how far it takes me. If I hit a road block, then I'll try cleaning the legs better. In the mean time, I'm fairly confident that the chips are making good contact.

Because I'm still seeing intermittent behavior, I'm inclined to believe that the issue lies in a trace somewhere that is not 100% clear. The increased resistance due to a somewhat broken path could be what is causing the issue.

I'm holding out for a few more days until I can get my hands on the PCB schematics.
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2010, 11:04:47 pm »
Ok, after going back and forth quite a bit, I've decided to restore this cab, NOT convert it. I just CAN'T convert a dedicated DD -- it's my favorite game!

It needs some TLC to bring it back to decent shape though:

  • Need a new PCB -- this one's flaky
  • Side art has been painted over partially -- time for citristrip
  • Wheels are gone -- anyone know where to get replacements?
  • Marquee is pretty yellowed
  • monitor could be recapped
  • coin mechs missing
  • CP overlay is pretty worn -- could use a new one, or lay plexi on top
  • Corners knicked up - could use some triangle guards
  • Monitor bezel is a bit faded, but I could live with it.

Some work to do, but nothing too tough.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 07:52:31 am by smalltownguy »
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2010, 09:21:42 am »
I think I may have found something that will work in restoring the side art today. I tried Citristrip, and didn't get anywhere.

I found this at my parents place last night, and thought I'd give it a try:



Voila! We seem to be making some progress here:



Looks like I have a LOT of elbow grease in my future  :angry:
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2010, 12:36:43 pm »
Many thanks to Lord Nightmare over at Mameworld -- I now have a copy of the CPU schematics!

I've uploaded them to the file repository. As far as I know, this is the ONLY digital copy of these schematics currently available.

http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=3618

Now I need to start teaching myself how to read schematics ;)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 02:16:53 pm by smalltownguy »
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

CheffoJeffo

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 01:19:20 pm »
 :cheers:

There is a guy (check CGCC.ca -- CoinOpcorner) who has 4 DD boardsets available.
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smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2010, 01:22:50 am »
Ok so I have confirmed that I now have a working boardset in my posession! Only took me 3 tries to get there, but hey, now I have 2 sets of spares for parts, right??

I also took it upon myself to take apart one of the OEM pushbuttons to diagnose why Billy wasn't 'punching' every time I hit the button. Turns out the brass disc that contacts the 2 points in the button had a fine glaze of corrosion covering it. A quick buffing with emery cloth made my button work like new again. Of the 6 action buttons (3 blue and 3 red), only 4 are original -- 2 have been changed out to microswitch buttons some time in the past. I'd sure like to get my hands on a few NOS buttons to get a matched set again :(.

I've noticed an odd behavior lately -- the board will reboot randomly. Jiggling the JAMMA connector triggers it. This means either the contacts on my board are weak/dirty, or my JAMMA harness doesn't hold tight enough. Anyone have any opinions how I can address this?

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

Flip The Switch

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2010, 01:28:28 am »
I for one commend you, that cab looks so good, even better when its tidied up!
:picsMy first cab - Plutos rebuild:pics

NeoFlynn

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2010, 10:55:59 am »
I am impressed by your dedication in restoring this beast....loks like you have made huge progress so far and I look forward to seeing the project completed, I would never have the ability to even try something like this cheers mate :cheers:

Dr Zero

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2010, 01:38:34 pm »
It very cool that you are taking the time to do this please keep us posted!  :cheers:
Manuals and info on Dynamo cabs!

doteater

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2010, 04:05:46 pm »
I have two red and two blue buttons. Took them out of a tapper cab and I don't need them. I would love to send them to a good home pm me if your interested.

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2010, 10:46:24 am »
Thanks for the words of encouragement, folks! I have renewed my vigor with respect to this cab. I decided to take a few hours on Friday night to keep stripping paint. What an ugly, messy, tedious process.

I'm getting somewhere though...



The Goo Gone stripper works, but veeeery slowly, and in bits at a time. I burned through a whole can of it, and I only got to about 2 inches from the bottom of one side. I'll probably have to use 3 cans total.

Just for kicks, I tried rubbing alcohol -- didn't budge. Citri-strip - nada. Gasoline, however, did have some effect at removing the paint, though not as effectively. Maybe I'll use that for my final touch up work one I get most of it off with the remover.

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

opt2not

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2010, 04:37:32 pm »
Glad to read you're restoring this baby to a dedicated cab.  :applaud:

Looks like this thread could be moved to Restorations! 

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2010, 04:42:52 pm »
Well, since my headache is still going away from the vapors of stripping paint on Friday night and I'm out of stripper, I figured I'd get a better look at the JAMMA connector on my board to see if I could figure out why it's rebooting from time to time. Here's what further inspection revealed:



I took after it with a polishing cloth, and was able to remove most of the corrosion. Looks like this now: (sorry for the flash issue)



I tested it for about 15 minutes, and the power issues seem to have disappeared. Yay!
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

smalltownguy

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2010, 08:50:43 pm »
I'd just like to say that I'd like to find the route owner who decided it was a good idea to paint this cab and strangle him  :badmood:

I've been scrubbing away on this cab for a few minutes at a time for the past few weeks. I can't do it for more than 10 minutes or so at a time, b/c the solvent is making me dizzy and I don't have a respirator. I'm making progress, but it's VEEEEERY slow.

I've switched to 100% acetone (nail polish remover). It seems to work as effectively as anything else I've tried, and it's not wrecking the original stencils.

Have I mentioned this is taking FOREVER??!!#$%)(80????   :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

dawolv

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2010, 10:42:15 pm »
Keep at it ... this rocks!  :applaud:

The Lumberjackass

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Re: Double Dragon preservation & conversion
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2010, 05:42:04 am »
i have a question,
the side art is in bad enough condition as it is , so when you are finished stripping the paint off , are you going to re-vinyl the sides ?

i mean all the hard work and effort your putting into the cab is revealing all the knocks and scratches that the previous owner was trying to hide.
so im wondering as to what you are going to do once the paint comes off  ;D
I may be a jackass , but im no fool !

  
 

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