8 buttons too much?

[Dafu]

I am planning of having 8 buttons per player, in two rows of 4 (the curved rows design). I can't actually think of any arcade game that uses 8, but since I plan to play SNES as well it seemed right (4 buttons, 2 shoulders, start, select = . Are there any arcade games that use this many buttons? If not I'm thinking maybe I should instead wire P1/P2 Starts to snes starts, and go with 7 buttons, 3 on each row and 1 offset diagonally.

[DashRendar]

There are no arcade games that use that many--

But if you have a few more buttons, you could have a keyboard!   

[Gorotsuki]

It's not finished yet, but
I'm using 8 buttons.
6 for joystick, and
2 for trackball.

[KapnKerfuffle]

Can't think of any with 8 buttons.  But I'm going with 7 buttons for my next panel to accomodate the NEO-GEO.  3 on top and 4 on bottom for the A,B,C,D button configuration found on the NEO-GEO cabs.

[Malenko]

why not the street fighter layout and put a coin/ select button next to start?  most people have 3, 6 or 7 (the hybrid NeoGeo/Street Fighter layout) so you could use the 7th button for select?

[atomikbohm]

I'm in the process of a very slow CP design / build  ... I digress. 

I was planning on having the player buttons (i.e. p1 p2 p3 p4) assigned as the start button or as a shift button and using my game buttons as dual purpose for console emulator option buttons.  You might want to look into the possibility, 8 buttons is a lot to manage when you are playing button masher type games.

[northerngames]

a bottom or top set of 4 is good for the neo geo but if you emu psx 8 buttons is a huge plus for having l1 l2 r1 r2 buttons.

[justinjstark]

I've been thinking about this too for my cab I'm going to build this spring/summer.  I figure I will play more SNES than anything and also plan on getting/modding a USB SNES controller or two.  But I'd still like to be able to use the arcade button for SNES so I'm planning on:

Coin Button: Select
Player Start: Start

Then I have 6 buttons yet to account for (A B X Y L R).

So I'm thinking I will put 6/7/8 buttons.  I haven't made up my mind.  The coin and player start buttons will be up top.  Here are some possibilities for the other buttons where O is the joystick

a) Standard 6 button setup.  Maybe a 7th button on the botton row offset a bit to accomodate neo-geo.

Code: [Select]

   X Y L
O  B A R

My biggest problem with (a) is that L and R are a pain in the butt to use.  Some SNES games require you to hit L and R quickly and often.  So I could do some kind of setup like

b)

Code: [Select]

  O  X Y C
 L R B A D

where C and D are extra buttons.  So this is basically a standard 6-button setup with the additional L and R within reach of the joystick hand...I'm not real sure how this will work but I will do some mockups and see if I like it.  The I could use R B A D for 4-button fighters.

And here are some other alternatives I'm thinking about:

c) This keeps L and R separate so they would be easier to hit.  Or I could put L and R below the other buttons.

Code: [Select]

    L R
   X Y C
O  B A D

d) Diamond shaped.  Again, I could put L and R above the buttons or below the joystick.  I will probably not use this but since the SNES controller buttons are slanted I thought about it.

Code: [Select]

    L R
     Y
O   X A
     B

In the end, I'm going to put together some mockups and see which one works best.  I suggest you do the same.  Install the buttons in some cardboard and play around with it until you get them where you like.  Then transfer that design to wood.

[ark_ader]

X-arcade have eight.

[dafelandry]

8 buttons are fine... my Xarcade has 8 and runs SNES like a pro!!! it seems like much but as long as u set your defaults button 1,2 ,3, 4 and so forth you should be fine! Zombies Ate My Neighbours on a mame cab is the shiz!

[walterg74]

I don't really get people's obsession with playing SNES games (or any other console for that matter) on their cabinet...

The whole purpose of building a cabinet is to re-create the whole arcade experience and re living what it was like to play the games originally.  When were these games played on an ARCADE cabinet? (except at a cheap ass arcade place maybe).

SNES (and other console) games are meant to play in front of your tv with it's controller. Playing with an arcade cabinet is just lame... 

[versapak]

I don't really get people's obsession with playing SNES games (or any other console for that matter) on their cabinet...

The whole purpose of building a cabinet is to re-create the whole arcade experience and re living what it was like to play the games originally.  When were these games played on an ARCADE cabinet? (except at a cheap ass arcade place maybe).

SNES (and other console) games are meant to play in front of your tv with it's controller. Playing with an arcade cabinet is just lame... 

Yeah, they are designed for a console that is connected to your tv, but pretty much every major system made has also had arcade controls made for it, and a bunch of those classic games that were made for consoles still had a very arcade like gameplay, and fit a cab like a glove.

8 buttons is a lot, but then 7 buttons is very commonly used for an easy Neo-Geo and Street Fighter arrangement. That 8th button really doesn't clutter things up any more.

[shateredsoul]

I'm using this layout for my arcade controls!

[northerngames]

I don't really get people's obsession with playing SNES games (or any other console for that matter) on their cabinet...

The whole purpose of building a cabinet is to re-create the whole arcade experience and re living what it was like to play the games originally.  When were these games played on an ARCADE cabinet? (except at a cheap ass arcade place maybe).

SNES (and other console) games are meant to play in front of your tv with it's controller. Playing with an arcade cabinet is just lame... 

Yeah, they are designed for a console that is connected to your tv, but pretty much every major system made has also had arcade controls made for it, and a bunch of those classic games that were made for consoles still had a very arcade like gameplay, and fit a cab like a glove.

8 buttons is a lot, but then 7 buttons is very commonly used for an easy Neo-Geo and Street Fighter arrangement. That 8th button really doesn't clutter things up any more.

plus with newer tv's and lcd's that ol nes is not going to look as good as it does on a arcade crt as opposed to lcd there smashed stretched cubed etc.

[justinjstark]

Not all of us are arcade geeks.    I don't much care about playing original games in their original forms.  I'm building an arcade machine because I think it will be fun to build and it will be great to play with my girlfriend or when friends come over.

SNES is my favorite system with the most quality games that can be emulated on my old computer.  Also, my gf wants the cab to be mario themed so it fits.

I also don't care so much about how it looks.  I try to keep things scaled properly even if that leaves black bars on the sides...it doesn't bother me much.  And the blockiness of snes emulators can be fixed by using filters such as super eagle or can be made to look more arcadish by adding scanlines.

I understand why many of you want to play games just as you remember them (and a lot of what I have said is probably blasphemy) but we are not all arcade junkies and we are not all building arcade machines for the same reason.

That being said, I'll start a thread and post some pictures when my SNES mario cab begins to be built.   

[javeryh]

I guess it does depend on what you will be using your cab for but 8 would be too much for me.  The 6 button SF layout is plenty for me although I could justify the 7th button for the small handful of Neo Geo games that actually use all 4 buttons in a row (fighters).

[Malenko]

I just dont understand the need for 8 buttons.  Theres only 6 action buttons on a SNES that are regularly used. the start buttonyou use for the arcade games and be used as the start button with SNES and the coin button can double as select or you can use the 7th button as a neogeo A button and select.


Also, nothing you've "said" is blasphemy, everyone is entitled to their opinions,even genesim. It is odd to ask people for their opinions if you dont intend to take their opinions into consideration. I do agree that an 8th button wont "clutter up the panel anymore" it will add to confusion and truth be told theres no need for it. I wanted to run SNES on my cab, but I have a vertically mounted CRT and I cant run the resolution high enough for Nvidia to rotate windows and none of the SNES emulators will rotate the display (that I know of)

I believe this is the part where we start asking you where you're going to to put you O and K buttons, volume control buttons, escape button,etc....

[Dizzle]

I don't really get people's obsession with playing SNES games (or any other console for that matter) on their cabinet...

The whole purpose of building a cabinet is to re-create the whole arcade experience and re living what it was like to play the games originally.  When were these games played on an ARCADE cabinet? (except at a cheap ass arcade place maybe).

SNES (and other console) games are meant to play in front of your tv with it's controller. Playing with an arcade cabinet is just lame... 

Lame?  Really?   

I have lots of fun with SNES games on my cabinet.  Many of them work really well with arcade controls.  I’m not gonna stand up and play any Final Fantasy on it, but I love the SNES version of Super Punchout.  The whole purpose of building an arcade cabinet is whatever the builder decides.  The Wii version of Tatsunoko vs. Capcom works tons better on my control panel than it does with a Gamecube or classic controller so there’s definitely a place for consoles/console emu’s in arcade cabinets.  Just look at the Dreamcast.

That being said, I have 7 buttons on my panel.  My MAME PCs share space with a Wii in one cab, a Dreamcast in another, and a host of console emu’s in both.  I haven’t run into anything where I really needed 8 buttons yet.  I haven’t tried PSX emulation yet, so that might change.  I also plan on sticking a PS3 in a cab, but I imagine that the types of game I really want to play on it won’t take all 8 buttons.

[severdhed]

i say 8 is too many.  the more buttons you have, the more confusing it gets for your friends/family who try to use it.  you will remember what every button is set to do, because you are passionate about it.  if you put the start and select buttons right there with the action buttons for SNES games, you are going to constantly have to hit your friend for accidentally pausing the game because he keeps hitting the start button by mistake.  like many others said, use the p1/p2 start buttons as Start, and the coin buttons as select.

speaking from experience, and many control panel revisions, more is not always better.  the more controls and admin buttons you have, the more confusing it is for everyone else.  i say keep it as streamlined and simple as possible.  you are still going to have to explain how it works to your friends pretty frequently...they just wont remember how everything works.  i have light-up, labeled Pause and Exit buttons, and people still ask me how to pause or exit the game.

on a side note, to those of you using dedicated mouse buttons for your trackball, there is no real reason you would need to do that.  an easy way to clean up clutter on the control panel is to double up your buttons.  wire up two of your regular player 1 buttons to the mouse, and just configure mame to use mouse buttons for those inputs.  that way you will have access to the mouse buttons when you need them, but don't have to have dedicated buttons there for them.

[justinjstark]

on a side note, to those of you using dedicated mouse buttons for your trackball, there is no real reason you would need to do that.  an easy way to clean up clutter on the control panel is to double up your buttons.  wire up two of your regular player 1 buttons to the mouse, and just configure mame to use mouse buttons for those inputs.  that way you will have access to the mouse buttons when you need them, but don't have to have dedicated buttons there for them.

Sorry to go all off-topic but argggh, this has been a problem for me lately.  Certain games/emulators don't recognise mouse buttons as inputs so this method causes problems.  Also, I want games like neverball/neverputt (which use the mouse and mouse buttons) to be intuitive to new users so I'm thinking dedicated mouse buttons (in a place near the trackball where they won't be confused) is the way to go...especially since my mame cab will be as much a computer as an arcade system.  To each his own I guess.

[javeryh]

severdhed makes an EXCELLENT point and probably the most important thing to consider when designing a CP - keep it simple!  If you are going to be the only one playing your cabinet then go nuts with the buttons - it doesn't matter - but if you plan on playing with friends then the more buttons on your CP the more questions you will get as to how it works. 

If you think your friends are smart enough to figure everything out after one explanation they aren't - especially if you are going to be installing multiple emulators.  I have a DK in my living room - it runs 4-way vertical games ONLY (MAME only) and every single time people come over to play (which is quite often) I get questions on how to work the thing.  The CP has P1 Start, P2 Start and ONE action button (never mind 8!) with two admin buttons (coin and exit to FE) which are out of sight.  It couldn't be any easier!  They're all morons I tell ya!!!   

[massive88]

on a side note, to those of you using dedicated mouse buttons for your trackball, there is no real reason you would need to do that.  an easy way to clean up clutter on the control panel is to double up your buttons.  wire up two of your regular player 1 buttons to the mouse, and just configure mame to use mouse buttons for those inputs.  that way you will have access to the mouse buttons when you need them, but don't have to have dedicated buttons there for them.

Sorry to go all off-topic but argggh, this has been a problem for me lately.  Certain games/emulators don't recognise mouse buttons as inputs so this method causes problems.  Also, I want games like neverball/neverputt (which use the mouse and mouse buttons) to be intuitive to new users so I'm thinking dedicated mouse buttons (in a place near the trackball where they won't be confused) is the way to go...especially since my mame cab will be as much a computer as an arcade system.  To each his own I guess.

I use a wonderful program called Xmouse, which is pretty awesome to get around anything that causes problems and needs keyboard inputs instead of mouse.

Check it out here - http://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/XMouseButtonControl.htm

You can have it load only when certain applications are active, and have them all operate anyway that you want.  Its a fantastic solution imo that has worked flawlessly for me.

[justinjstark]

I use a wonderful program called Xmouse, which is pretty awesome to get around anything that causes problems and needs keyboard inputs instead of mouse.

Check it out here - http://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/XMouseButtonControl.htm

You can have it load only when certain applications are active, and have them all operate anyway that you want.  Its a fantastic solution imo that has worked flawlessly for me.

Looks nice but my heart belongs to linux.

And while I'm sure I can come up with solutions for linux, I still think dedicated mouse buttons would be easier for people rather than having to tell them to use certain player 1 buttons for the mouse.   

[massive88]

Looks nice but my heart belongs to linux.

And while I'm sure I can come up with solutions for linux, I still think dedicated mouse buttons would be easier for people rather than having to tell them to use certain player 1 buttons for the mouse.   

Probably.  Its a tricky though making things intuitive or not for people, as javeryh noted above, even the simplest layout will be met with a multitude of questions.  My need for dedicated mouse buttons is low, but Im sure glad I have the ability to use the trackball, with buttons, in windows if needed.

You'll probably be telling people what button to press irregardless if its overlapping previous buttons or are their own buttons (even if labeled), its just the way it goes.  Doubling up the buttons just saves you real estate, but if that's not a concern, go nuts.

Personally I have my mouse buttons as Player 2's buttons 4 and 5, with xmouse running in the background to simulate keystrokes on press in programs where its needed.

[Epyx]

The whole purpose of building a cabinet is to re-create the whole arcade experience and re living what it was like to play the games originally.  When were these games played on an ARCADE cabinet? (except at a cheap ass arcade place maybe).

SNES (and other console) games are meant to play in front of your tv with it's controller. Playing with an arcade cabinet is just lame..

Actually, it all depends...to me it isn't the whole purpose. My ideal personal arcade would be a couple of classics AND a mame/console/old computer cab.  I loved the arcades, loved my C64 and loved my NES. However, I do remember thinking at the time...Man this C64 or NES game would be so much better on an arcade cab...shooters in particular are/were a pain in the butt on a C64 joystick or original NES controller.  Even titles like Super Mario Brothers play a lot better on an arcade controller imo than on the original controller.

Amiga games like Road Raider/Xenon/Battle Squadron/Turrican play fantastic on an arcade cabinet as well.

So really it boils down to personal preference.