Help with a Broken 360

[AtomSmasher]

This is my first issue with my 360, which is out of warranty, and google seems to be failing me (or I am failing at google), so I thought I'd ask here since we seem to have a couple knowledgeable people around.

Let me start by saying my 360 does not have any red ring issues and has what seems to be known as the "open tray" issue, or in other words its having trouble reading the disks.  Basically it's been slowly getting worse over the past few weeks until now where it is impossible to play any games on it.  I've been searching online and tried all the simple tricks (lens cleaner, tapping the top of the 360 when starting it, and starting the 360 with no disk in the drive), and these tricks have gotten it so that I can always start the game without any issues (so I no longer see the "open tray" message).  My problem now is that it seems to get stuck reading the disk in the middle of the game.  The game will freeze and the disk will continue to spin at full speed, leaving me no option but to turn it off.

My 360 does not have any mods and I have never opened the case.  Theres still a couple other tricks I've found that I could try, mainly the rubber band mod, which could potentially fix it, but it requires me to open the case and I'm wondering if it fails, will Microsoft still fix a machine that has been tampered with? (at the absurd cost of $100 for non-warranty repairs).  I assume they will, but I just wanted to double check with someone before I opened it up.  I figure $100 is better then buying a new machine, but I should try all home remedies first.

Also, if anyone else has any good ideas on how to fix my problem, I'm definitely open to hearing them.

[Malenko]

They will do the repair but you're better off selling the system as is and just getting a new arcade version 360 for $199. Modders can take your 360 and spoof in another drive or just copy the firmware info onto a working drive.  When MS does "repairs" it just ships you out a working 360 and then fixes yours. When yours is fixed it goes out to the next person who shipped their 360 in. I wouldnt gamble it because they may send you a 360 that was made earlier in the 360s life cycle then you run a higher chance of having a RRoD.

[AtomSmasher]

They will do the repair but you're better off selling the system as is and just getting a new arcade version 360 for $199. Modders can take your 360 and spoof in another drive or just copy the firmware info onto a working drive.  When MS does "repairs" it just ships you out a working 360 and then fixes yours. When yours is fixed it goes out to the next person who shipped their 360 in. I wouldnt gamble it because they may send you a 360 that was made earlier in the 360s life cycle then you run a higher chance of having a RRoD.

I'll look into that, thanks.  What do broken 360's normally go for these days?  Also, since my 360 has HDMI, wouldn't Microsoft be required to at least send one out that also has an HDMI port?  which would mean it would have to at least been a semi-recent version?

I should also ask around my work as I'm sure someone there has the equipment to copy the firmware over or spoof the drive (I work in the video game industry, so my odds of finding someone are better then most workplaces ).

[Malenko]

I'll look into that, thanks.  What do broken 360's normally go for these days?  Also, since my 360 has HDMI, wouldn't Microsoft be required to at least send one out that also has an HDMI port?  which would mean it would have to at least been a semi-recent version?

no idea the value, I wouldnt offer ya more then maybe $50. I dont think M$ is obligated to send you back an HDMI console but I cant say for sure either way.

[Bender]

the first 360 with a HDMI port came out in April of 2007 so you should still be under the 3 year extended warranty
try contacting M$

[AtomSmasher]

the first 360 with a HDMI port came out in April of 2007 so you should still be under the 3 year extended warranty
try contacting M$

3 year warranty is only for the red ring of death and unfortunately is only a 1 year warranty for everything else.

no idea the value, I wouldnt offer ya more then maybe $50. I dont think M$ is obligated to send you back an HDMI console but I cant say for sure either way.

Seems like a lot of people would be extremely upset if they were using the HDMI port, sent it in to get repaired and could no longer use the HDMI when they got it back.  But who knows, I could easily see them doing that.

[DJ_Izumi]

Have you tried contacting Microsoft and asking how much they'll charge to fix/replace the 360's DVD drive?

It's woth seeing what that'll cost and it could be cheaper than getting a new Arcade unit.

While some people have warned you that they might not repair YOUR 360 and send you a different refurb... That refurb will have a brand new serial number and a very recent (re)manufacture date and that means a brand new one year warrenty.

[Malenko]

Have you tried contacting Microsoft and asking how much they'll charge to fix/replace the 360's DVD drive?

he said $100  , thats when I suggested unloading it on some one (full disclosure) and just getting a new unit (only $100 more but then he gets a new warranty n stuff) He however does run the risk of getting a non HDMI console, while slim, its still a chance I wouldnt take.

[Samstag]

If you have HDMI, MS will send you another HDMI version.

[Cakemeister]

You can replace the drive yourself. What you do is take the logic board out of your drive and put it in the new drive. It requires a new drive of the exact same model as your old drive. It will not ban your console.

I've done this and it is not difficult. In fact, the hardest part was opening the stupid case.

[AtomSmasher]

You can replace the drive yourself. What you do is take the logic board out of your drive and put it in the new drive. It requires a new drive of the exact same model as your old drive. It will not ban your console.

x 2.  I did this on a 360 with a broken drive and the repair worked fine.

Hmm, that sounds like a good plan.  Do I just buy the replacement drive off ebay or is there a better place to get one?

[Cakemeister]

Yep, ebay. Remove your existing drive so that you know what kind of replacement drive to get.

http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/Xbox_360_DVD_Drive_Comparison.htm

[DJ_Izumi]

Yep, ebay. Remove your existing drive so that you know what kind of replacement drive to get.

http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/Xbox_360_DVD_Drive_Comparison.htm

That list appears to be horrendiously out of date.  Namely cause the BENQ and Phillips drives (Phillips not even listed there) can't be easily told from one another.

http://www.tronix.co.nz/images/xbox_360_dvd_model_identification.jpg

[AtomSmasher]

Awesome, thanks for the tips.  I just bought a new BENQ drive off ebay for $21 shipped, I'll let you know how it goes once I get it.

[northerngames]

just in case other's have this problem

usually that is either:

dry/sticky laser rails where the laser cannot move back and forth freely
laser eye is dirty on top of the eye or under it
spindle locking ring is shot and makes a weird noise when disk spin before it break's even more
laser motor is worn out

hair clipper oil or similar works good to get it moving good again for dry rails.

for the laser eye I use rubbing alcohol and q-tip and just barley toach it, one scratch and its done for good canned air is good to clean it out under the eye one peice of hair can cause DDE/DRE

if you take the top off and put a disk on the spindle or locking ring on the bottom and the disk wobble's when spinning then the ring is shot also sometime's the top ring in the case lid gets stuck or sticks and needs to be lubed sometime's also becuase if it sticks it works like a car break kinda wich cuase's DDE/DRE

The laser motor or snake motor should move fast back and forth if it is really slow or make's a tapping noise then the motor is worn or the teeth that runs on it from the laser arm are worn or broken.

laser do go bad and wear out but there also is the laser pot's that can be turned up wich usually fix the dde problem for another year or so if the laser was losing strengh.

another thing to look out for is on some model drive's there is a way to adjust the laser rails height and some pitch wich also can help a dying or weakining laser.

I know it sounds like alot for a drive with disk read errors but those are the most common things that can cause that next to the laser itself going bad.

I have reapired many makes and model drive's for all type's of electronics but most drive's dont need to be replaced just a good cleaning, re-lubed and sometime's a pot tweak but most are fixable believe it or not.

 

   

[AtomSmasher]

I have reapired many makes and model drive's for all type's of electronics but most drive's dont need to be replaced just a good cleaning, re-lubed and sometime's a pot tweak but most are fixable believe it or not.

I originally was going to open it up and try a few of the simpler fixes first, but since it's only $20 for a new drive, I figured might as well just replace it.  Thats a lot of good info though.

[JackTucky]

Just send it in for RROD.  They will not check your error.  They will ship you a new one ASAP.

[AtomSmasher]

Well I got the new drive earlier this week and finally got a little bit of time to open the 360 and try and do the swap.  However, opening the dvd drive showed theres nearly a dozen wires soldered to various parts of the drive.  I was hoping this would be a simple swap, but I guess it's going to take a little work.  I generally suck at soldering, so I think I'll probably try some of the northerngames ideas before I attempt the swap.  Hopefully I'll have a bit more time on Sun. and be able to try out some of those remedies.

[northerngames]

you can't do a quik disconnect with the main drive board eh?

usually there is the laser ribbon that goes from the laser to the logic pcb and then another ribbon or molex type plug that goes to the tray's pcb.

the ribbon has them clamp deals where the molex has actual wire's but can be plugged/unplugged from the logic board

all you need to swap out is your logic board wich is the larger board from your broken drive to the new drive and you should be all set.

dont worry about the tray pcb unless you have eject issue's.

if you have any questions or need help just post'em but worst case if you cannot get it settled I would fix it free just cover the shipping both way's  


also when you pull the laser ribbon take it from the laser itseef not the pcb becuase becuase it is attached to the pcb with double sided tape so the ribbon dont get caught in anything and damaged.

the ribbon just plugs into the laser as there is no clamp on them usually but sometimes there is so check to make sure there is no clamp and if not just pull it and it will pull out but if there is clamp make sure you unclamp it or will wont look and hold right if it gets broken.

if you take it off the pcb's side and remove the tape part you risk it getting tangled or damaged by other moving parts.

what I do is take the bottom and top of the drive's casing off flip the drive over pull the laser ribbon from the laser and then unplug the tray pcb from the main logic pcb then there is 2 black plastic prongs on the side's of the pcb pull them to the side lift the board out.

do the same with the other drive then put your old logic board in the new drive attach the molex/ribbons close it up and its good to go.

if you have to solder/desolder on anything what make and model drive do you have and I will look into that model a little better but you should be able to get by with no soldering.

it also makes it easier to get the laser ribbon back in if you manually eject the tray where it is open all the way this raise's the laser and give's you a little more room to work with to get the ribbon back in it's not much but it does help.

there is a bar in the front of the drive that move's left and right if you press it to the side the tray will open if you dont know what I mean just slowly spin the big black gear wheel and you will see the bar move and then know what part I am speaking of.
 

[AtomSmasher]

The drive is a BENQ VAD-6038 and there definitely seems to be wires that I would have to re-solder in order to replace the PCB, but I'd me more then happy to learn of a work around    Attached is a picture of the drive and pcb, so you can get a better idea of what it is.

[northerngames]

I see what your saying now I have not worked on the ben-Q's yet.

also I noticed that does not even have a tray pcb and why there is all them wires in there.

I actually have never even seen that many wire's in any make or model drive for anything and why they did that like that is beyond me but I guess wires are cheaper then pcb's

I would still be willing to swap'em out for ya if needed though.

but yeah that one your going to have to solder and desolder for sure as nothing has a molex on them for that model drive for some reason.

usually all them wires are either a ribbon or wire with a molex on the end.

all the other makes you just unplug the ribbon and molex as mentioned prior. 

[AtomSmasher]

So today I got out the old soldering iron and swapped out the drives.  It went very quick and easy, and I had no problems.  I reassembled the 360 with the new drive in it, popped in a game.  The "open tray" problem has completely gone away, so the swap was successful. 

Unfortunately it seems the problem of the system freezing in the middle of a game with the disc spinning indefinitely was not related to the "open tray" issue, because it still occurs.  It's weird because I can play through downloaded games just fine, so it's obviously an issue related to the dvd drive, but apparently its not the drive itself (unless its the pcb).

I dunno, maybe I'll just give up and buy a new console.

[AtomSmasher]

After typing the previous post I remembered that on the 360, you can install any game onto the harddrive, so I figured it was worth a shot.  Turns out it worked great and I just played an hour of a game that I couldn't make it 2 minutes into before.  It's not a perfect solution (especially since I only have a 20 gig harddrive) but at least I'm able to play on the 360 again

[Bender]

I'd try to force the thing to get the red ring of death, cause they should send you a new one, maybe there are some tips on the interwebs on how to sabotage the thing

[northerngames]

could be a gpu glitch due to overheating.

do a google search for the 9V or 12V stock fan mod 12V is rather loud though.

[AtomSmasher]

could be a gpu glitch due to overheating.

do a google search for the 9V or 12V stock fan mod 12V is rather loud though.

Hmm, worth a shot I suppose, especially since Mass Effect 2 is coming on 2 discs, which could pose a problem for my current workaround.  But before I do it, I probably can tell if thats the problem just by leaving the case open and pulling the dvd drive as far out as possible and see if the problem still occurs.

[AtomSmasher]

Just played a game with the dvd drive pulled most of the way out and it ran fine, so I guess the problem was overheating.  Thanks for the tip.  Now I just have to find a good tutorial on how to do the 12v mod, and figure out exactly how to do it   

[AtomSmasher]

Just finished the 12v fan mod and everything seems to be running great now.  I only had time to play for 15 min or so, but it used to crash after 30 seconds on this particular game, so I'm pretty sure it's fixed.  The only drawback is that my 360 now sounds like a vacuum cleaner, but it's definitely worth it to have a working system again. 

Thanks again for the help.

[Bender]

Way to to stick with it and get it working!