X-box mod for Mame help (Also Best Console Game Ports)

[ark_ader]

I'm with you on this AA, ignore PinballJim and his thread crapping

I'm not the one trying to get the thread closed, moran.

There's links all over the main page on xbox-scene that take you directly to websites that have downloads using XDK, I'm looking at least half a dozen right now.  Wink, wink, nudge, nudge instructions all over the place on how to get to the xbins server, and there isn't a program on there that's non-XDK.

I got a $1 that says ark's unmarried, nuff said.

Keep up the good work, jukingeo, I'm looking forward to your completed guide.

We are not discussing links to websites are we?

You typed that you had links on XS that had MS-XDK links directly at source as Geo did with RS.

Please PJ read the posts and answer accordingly. 

And no I am not married, unless miss perfect shows up. 

Thanks for your interest though! 

[jukingeo]

Hello guys,

Please don't argue, as it is I really didn't want the discussion of legalities to enter this already extremely long thread.  Goodness knows that it has already went on several tangents.   If everyone prefers, then when I post the final part of the document up, I will change the link to just point to the CoinOPs forum.   I really don't want arguments here.

Not to feed into the argument, but I have to say that Ark_Ader has helped me out tremendously with the Xbox mods.  Initially it was Crashwg who helped me get started on the project with getting all the materials.  But Crash was in the middle of a move and then Ark_Ader came in and helped me the rest of the way.   So being that I only have modded two Xbox's  I am sure you guys know a helluva lot more about the Xbox than I do.

I am sure there is a section where you guys can exchange words on the legalities.  But still I am not really for the arguments.  Up to now this has been an outstanding forum and I would like to see it stay that way.

AA did point out a potential issue in regards to the legality of the one link I posted but it does kind of fall along the lines of two points:

1) Anything connected with the discussion of modifying an Xbox by right is illegal. Microsoft took action by banning those with modded machines from Xbox Live.  Yet there are tons of talk about modding Xbox's.  In fact if it wasn't for the mention of the ability to mod the Xbox here in this thread, I wouldn't have known you COULD do such a thing. 
2) On the side of the Xbox modder's defense:  The Xbox is a dead format and is no longer supported by Microsoft.  They completely cut the thing off when they came out with the 360.  So outside of doing something on a commercial level, or blatantly ripping games and posting them directly on the site...I don't think it is a major issue.

However, if this turns into a heated debate here, it MIGHT draw unwanted attention, which I am sure no one wants.

So just to be on the safe side, I will change the link when I put up the last part of the document.  But if Saint feels that it isn't a big deal, then I will leave the link.  But right now that is up to him as it is his website.   Naturally I will comply with whatever he wants me to do.

But please, just lets settle down and talk about the fun stuff we are all good at and that is making arcade games.  I just would hate to see Saint getting upset with the bickering and shut this thread down, or worse, we loose a valuable member of the forum due to an argument.

Ok, 'nuff said.

Getting back to business, I am hoping to get the final part of the document up this weekend.  I will have Saint go though it to make sure it is fine and hopefully he can make a sticky of the document so this way everyone will have a good source and good instructions for setting up an Xbox for the use of Mame and XBMC.

So once again I do have to thank everyone that contributed to this thread because it is really such a wonderful thing to have found out about modding the Xbox.  It is a beautiful replacement for a large computer system and it answers so many little issues when setting up a small Mame cabinet.  In addition the Xbox does make a great media center that blows away any store bought unit or DVD player.  It has helped me tremendously with my 'movie nights' where I can put together a whole evening of events in the XBMC playlist player and all I have to do is "sit back and enjoy the show".

So everyone have a good weekend!

Geo

[Hoopz]

Modding an Xbox isn't illegal.  It violates the warranty and terms of service but it isn't illegal. 

[versapak]

Modding an Xbox isn't illegal.  It violates the warranty and terms of service but it isn't illegal.  

If you are using a bios that uses code from MS then it is, and any bios that allows you to play Xbox games is gonna be illegal.

[northerngames]

coinops mame mameox fceultra daphne xbins and any other emu fall under the same don't matter if they are pc xbox playstation ipad whatever.

a link to any of them is no different then the next.

mame is mame and they have nothing to do with coinops or they would have already done something with them mame is also in no posistion to go after any other emu's becuase what there doing is illegal also or it would be on store shelve's everywhere as we speak.

and yes x-s is tattered in links to illegal things try to find some xbins links that are everywhere and see where they go lol I mean come on now..

and with this mame non-sense can anyone post a legit link where the mame team had actually taken anyone to a real court room for anything emu related besides their name and logo? I don't mean so and so taking mame to court I mean the mame team where they are the plantiff and going after someone for something beside's their name and logo wich they have a right to claim but nothing else is theirs legally that I can tell anyhow..

[ark_ader]

coinops mame mameox fceultra daphne xbins and any other emu fall under the same don't matter if they are pc xbox playstation ipad whatever.

a link to any of them is no different then the next.

mame is mame and they have nothing to do with coinops or they would have already done something with them mame is also in no posistion to go after any other emu's becuase what there doing is illegal also or it would be on store shelve's everywhere as we speak.

and yes x-s is tattered in links to illegal things try to find some xbins links that are everywhere and see where they go lol I mean come on now..

and with this mame non-sense can anyone post a legit link where the mame team had actually taken anyone to a real court room for anything emu related besides their name and logo? I don't mean so and so taking mame to court I mean the mame team where they are the plantiff and going after someone for something beside's their name and logo wich they have a right to claim but nothing else is theirs legally that I can tell anyhow..

Again we are not talking about the MameDevs suing anyone, nor are we discussing links to other websites that have MS-XDK material.  CoinOPS is built from MameDox which is created with a MS-XDK.  I haven't seen anyone sued for downloading MS-XDKs, nor do I want to be the first. 

With regards to your legal argument, I am no lawyer, but if you PM/submit your postal address with your actual name, I would be happy to forward your suggestion to a friend of mine, who works for Microsoft, and whom can locate a suitable person to provide you a response to your query.  If it is a MameDev query, I am sure Haze could answer.  But this topic has already been discussed on another forum.

I think the platform is dead and nearly buried, and to be honest couldn't care less who does what.  What I object to is linking to file hosting sites that contain illegal software to this site.  The thread is really good info for those who like to take the Xbox to a new level, I just hate it to be trashed because of some dumb links.  Geo has done a good write up.

Personally I live in one big greenhouse and restrict myself from throwing any stones when inside.   

[northerngames]

I was not trying to argue nor ask any questions just posting basic facts is all.

no emu guys are going to go after another its like a robber trying to sue the home owner becuase they cut themselve's on the way in from the window they broke to get in and more then likely they bit off more then they can chew when it hits the court if they were dumb enough to even try.

care to post a link to whatever your talking about then?... taking who ever to court or having any site shutdown for what reason again and where has this happened before?

I guess I am lost on where your coming/talking from here and would like to see some links of whatever your threating others about here becuase I have never heard nor seen anything like it from something like an emu team and would love to see some facts over opinion.

what makes you think any emu differ's from the next from mameox mame fceultra pcsx and the other hundred or so that are out there with links everywhere some from one right to the other etc...

I know MS dont approve of non MS emu's so I have no reason to ask them either nor sony or nintendo etc.. what does 1 emu hold over the next 20+ for the same console but this one single one cannot be linked to again and what makes it so special over all the others again?

links and file hosting are two very different things ya know.

[ark_ader]

I was not trying to argue nor ask any questions just posting basic facts is all.

no emu guys are going to go after another its like a robber trying to sue the home owner becuase they cut themselve's on the way in from the window they broke to get in and more then likely they bit off more then they can chew when it hits the court if they were dumb enough to even try.

care to post a link to whatever your talking about then?... taking who ever to court or having any site shutdown for what reason again and where has this happened before?

I guess I am lost on where your coming/talking from here and would like to see some links of whatever your threating others about here becuase I have never heard nor seen anything like it from something like an emu team and would love to see some facts over opinion.

what makes you think any emu differ's from the next from mameox mame fceultra pcsx and the other hundred or so that are out there with links everywhere some from one right to the other etc...

I know MS dont approve of non MS emu's so I have no reason to ask them either nor sony or nintendo etc.. what does 1 emu hold over the next 20+ for the same console but this one single one cannot be linked to again and what makes it so special over all the others again?

links and file hosting are two very different things ya know.

Ahh OK I understand now.

In Geo's excellent write up he included some links to a file hosting service that was posted by somebody else in another forum.  Since the files use MS-XDK which follows the rule on this board that states:

5. Nothing illegal! Do I even need to explain this one? Need a ROM to repair an arcade board you own? Fine to talk about. Need a ROM to complete your MAME collection? Don't bother to post here. If someone posts such a request, please don't answer it -- no direct answers, no hints, no private messages.

That is where we are right now.  All I know is Mame ROMs and MS-XDKs are technically the same.

PJ states that these MS-XDK files are available in quantities of eleventy million dotted all around the internet.  I have found 12 so far on my travels which means I have some years ahead of me to find the rest.  Unfortunately I have not found any that are directly linked to file hosting services, but to dodgy sites that throw up all kinds of warnings from my firewalls. 

The file(s) in question is CoinOPS and the whole package is rather cool, which hopefully Geo's write-up will explain and show the links to the corresponding sites with more information.   

[saint]

OK, pardon my tardiness in responding. There are two separate questions here. The first is a moral question - is it "good" or "right" to ..... I don't have an opinion I'm willing to share on that, and it is not germane to the discussion here. Your moral decisions are between you, your conscience, and whatever faith you might have.

My perspective for BYOAC is strictly from a legal one, regardless of moral judgements. If use of the SDK was illegal, please do not link the product developed from it.

[jukingeo]

OK, pardon my tardiness in responding. There are two separate questions here. The first is a moral question - is it "good" or "right" to ..... I don't have an opinion I'm willing to share on that, and it is not germane to the discussion here.

Thank you Saint.  

I know the question of legality has entered the issue here, but I would appreciate it if you guys did take it to another thread more suited for that discussion.   In the event that Ark_Ader IS 100% correct (and I am not saying that I doubt his claim either) then the discussion here is just going to attract 'undue' attention.  The last thing anyone wants here is someone to start pointing fingers and then all of a sudden Saint gets a visit from Microsoft.  So I would appreciate it if you guys didn't argue about it in this thread any longer.

 Your moral decisions are between you, your conscience, and whatever faith you might have.

My perspective for BYOAC is strictly from a legal one, regardless of moral judgements. If use of the SDK was illegal, please do not link the product developed from it.

On that note, as much as I personally think the Xbox is a dead issue and format I HAVE edited the links to the forum discussion on CoinOps instead of leaving the direct link to the actual location of the file.  That forum doesn't have a direct link to CoinOps either (which does kind of reinforce what Ark_Ader is saying) so it it will make it much harder to find it now.  But you can ask there.

So, sorry guys, the boss has spoken and I certainly don't want to have him shut this thread down or worse, get into a situation that could force this entire site to be shut down.   So 'nuff on the legality discussion.   The link is now gone.

Thank You,

Geo

[ark_ader]

OK, pardon my tardiness in responding. There are two separate questions here. The first is a moral question - is it "good" or "right" to ..... I don't have an opinion I'm willing to share on that, and it is not germane to the discussion here.

Thank you Saint.  

I know the question of legality has entered the issue here, but I would appreciate it if you guys did take it to another thread more suited for that discussion.   In the event that Ark_Ader IS 100% correct (and I am not saying that I doubt his claim either) then the discussion here is just going to attract 'undue' attention.  The last thing anyone wants here is someone to start pointing fingers and then all of a sudden Saint gets a visit from Microsoft.  So I would appreciate it if you guys didn't argue about it in this thread any longer.

 Your moral decisions are between you, your conscience, and whatever faith you might have.

My perspective for BYOAC is strictly from a legal one, regardless of moral judgments. If use of the SDK was illegal, please do not link the product developed from it.

On that note, as much as I personally think the Xbox is a dead issue and format I HAVE edited the links to the forum discussion on CoinOps instead of leaving the direct link to the actual location of the file.  That forum doesn't have a direct link to CoinOps either (which does kind of reinforce what Ark_Ader is saying) so it it will make it much harder to find it now.  But you can ask there.

So, sorry guys, the boss has spoken and I certainly don't want to have him shut this thread down or worse, get into a situation that could force this entire site to be shut down.   So 'nuff on the legality discussion.   The link is now gone.

Thank You,

Geo

I really do apologize Geo if I have given the wrong impression, but I think the entire talk of modding a Xbox as shown in this thread is something that is quite different than breaking open a console controller and wiring up a joystick and some buttons, which this site is dedicated to.  Hacking a closed proprietary system is a breach of the DMCA.  What you do in private in your own home is up to you.

Personally I do not think a write up is necessary regarding the modding of xboxes as there are several websites that document this process to oblivion.  There again I really enjoyed your write up on the subject.

Nobody is arguing about dead console platforms, but what you have contributed into the thread, which was added by yourself that was later deemed illegal.  To be honest, you did not ask to post the links - you thought it was your right to do so.  We know the story about good intentions, and I do understand your fervor about documenting your personal experiences.  You should have shown restraint after the fact and edited them out.

Personally I really do not care to see threads about hacking consoles, who can hack them for you (i.e. providing a service) on this message board, except about hacking controllers.  The moral question regarding if you can do something should not even enter the equation.  There is enough of it going on without it being blatant and showing step-by-step. 

With regard to trouble, well let us put it this way:  You know who is reading this thread by the replies, but you do not know who is just reading.  I would not think that any harm could be done, but again this site is about building arcade cabs and controllers, not hacking consoles. AFAIK.

This is not my message board, but if it was I would want to distance myself from these types of discussions, considering the implications that could be involved.  Remember we should think of Saint first before any personal agenda, and it is quite apparent that this wasn't the case regarding those links.

I'm all for hacking consoles I own, but I draw the line on making available illegal content.  Incidentally I Google-d CoinOPS and it was just one click away, so I cannot understand why you linked to the xbe. 

My last hypocritical 2p on the subject.