Hockey... now THAT is a WTF moment

[ChadTower]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4702423

So, erm... been around a lot of hockey over the years... that's a new one... why the hell isn't that guy kicked off of the Panthers?   

[Ginsu Victim]

Man, what a moron. The rest of the team should've beat his ass.

[ChadTower]

That's what I think.  If he did that to an opponent they'd be talking about a potential lifetime ban and a definite season long suspension.  I don't get why he hasn't been thrown off the Panthers entirely.

Sure, it "was an accident", but that's your goalie.  No different than spearing your own QB's knee after he throws an INT.

[polaris]

he didn't seem to give ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- either, seems he noticed he hit the guy and just skated off

[drventure]

Heck, he hit the guy and then hit the goal frame. It's obvious he meant it.

[ChadTower]

Heck, he hit the guy and then hit the goal frame. It's obvious he meant it.

It's entirely possible the first swing was meant for the post too.  That doesn't change it much IMO but slashing your own goalie in the face is just so off the charts I am having trouble believing even Happy Gilmore would do it.

[Ginsu Victim]

At least Happy felt bad about Chubbs' hand. This guy is just a ---tallywhacker---.

[ChadTower]

Not nearly as smart as this guy.

[shardian]

It was an accident it appears - he was looking at the pole, not the goalie. He needs to be sent to the minor leagues though, because obviously he has no depth of perception. 

[hypernova]

He obviously missed his intended target.  And he obviously had no clue initially that he had inflicted so much damage when he realized he hit him on the first swing, as he swings again at the post, then skates off, not looking at the goalie.

Hell, when you watch that video, and watch how much the goalie's head moves after being struck, it doesn't seem like it would hurt that much.  I would have figured the helmet absorbed much of the blow.  They take vulcanized rubber to the face and head on occasion when they don't have sight of it and it's shot high.  Didn't think this would be so drastically different.

Poor goalie.

[Dartful Dodger]

It looked like an accident (the hockey one).  It's like a baseball player throwing down a bat and having it bounce up and hit a fellow team mate.

If it's revealed that the guy did it on purpose there should be criminal charges against him, not just an NHL slap on the wrist.

Otherwise, it's hockey and he's a goalie, if it's to rough for him he should be playing soccer.






...As long as he's not playing against her:

[ChadTower]

There is a huge difference between a puck to the mask and a stick to the temple.  Stick blades are sharp and covered in abrasive.  He didn't take that to the mask, he took it to an exposed spot.  That's the only way he could have been bleeding.

[Ginsu Victim]

Yeah, he was clearly bleeding.

[ChadTower]

I took a lot of pucks to the mask as a kid.  Granted that's not NHL speed but up to say 15 you barely even feel it.  You HEAR it, it's jarring like someone yelling in your face, and it wakes you up a bit.  It doesn't hurt, though.  Getting a foul tip off the catcher's mask was always worse though still not all that painful unless you had a beaten to crap mask.

[hypernova]

There is a huge difference between a puck to the mask and a stick to the temple.  Stick blades are sharp and covered in abrasive.  He didn't take that to the mask, he took it to an exposed spot.  That's the only way he could have been bleeding.

That was my only other assumption.

 

Cat fighting gets ugly during BYU vs. New Mexico women's soccer match

Apparently, that's somewhat the norm for her.  I bet she's a demon in the sack...You best be up for some masochism if you hop into the bed with her.

[ChadTower]

You know, I've been to a few bush league hockey games, own a San Antonio Rampage t-shirt, and I admire the athleticism and all that... but it is possibly the worst team sport -> TV transition out there.

Hard to argue that.  I don't understand why they have never been willing to go with a top down view.  It would make the game so much easier to follow for people who have never played it.  Coverage as is really depends on people being able to read where the puck must be based on what you can see the players doing when they are on the near side.  Plus half the violence of the game is lost when you can't see how hard the boards shake when someone is driven into them.

[Hoopz]

I've often thought that the grace of a game of hockey is better than almost any other team sport.  I don't mean the gracefulness of the players, but the grace of the game itself.  It's something that has to be seen in person to truly appreciate.  The ability of the players to work together is much more important in hockey than in most team sports.  The possible exception may be football (American football).

I don't mind watching it on tv, but no one seems to be able to broadcast it well.  ESPN was ok.  No idea about the fucksticks at Versus....

I'd be curious to see it from a bird's eye view. 

[ChadTower]

The flow of hockey is actually sort of similar to soccer.  Less people, way faster, compressed into a smaller space, and with the added ability to hit.  If one takes a hard look at the strategies, though, they are more similar than most people think.

[Hoopz]

The flow of hockey is actually sort of similar to soccer.  Less people, way faster, compressed into a smaller space, and with the added ability to hit.  If one takes a hard look at the strategies, though, they are more similar than most people think.

True to a point.  In hockey, you don't see people taking the play off in hockey like you do in soccer though.  Less number of players in hockey attributes to this also.  Most hockey players are involved in each play much more than soccer. 

[ChadTower]

That's really only because of the smaller playfield.  If a hockey rink were 100 yards long you would see guys standing around.  And trust me, hockey players do take plays off.  They skate to the bench and sit down.     Even during shifts it's somewhat common to see a guy coasting along on the perimeter and not making a real effort to engage.  You don't have to stop on skates to rest.

[wachin]

As I am a goalie (albeit a beer leaguer), seeing this clip disgusts me.  Yes it was an accident, one that was totally preventable but more importantly, it was after the play was dead.  During play athletes get hurt, that happens in every sport.  But to be blindsided after the whistle and by your own player, that just unacceptable.  Especially because Ballard was acting like a 12 year old trying to break his stick.

Something that most people don't realized, both fans and players, is that a goalie mask is a specifically designed piece of protective equipment.  They are shaped they way they are so to allow a puck to carom off the shell thereby displacing the force to the head.  They are not intended to absorb the full direct impact from a puck.  But this only holds true if the goalie is facing the puck directly.  A direct shot to the side of the mask is asking for a concussion and can be career ending.

Ballard's slash is exactly that.  A blind blow to the side of Vokun's head.  People think that goalies are "invincible" because they wear all that equipment, but the truth is that they are designed to be "invincible" against pucks, not crashing forwards, skates, sticks or your teammates.  I am truly surprised that Vokun did not suffer from a concussion.

[ChadTower]

Heh, that's true.  My equipment was really old and crappy, too.  It definitely only protects from the front.  Side, back, almost no protection at all.  People don't realize how often you get slashed on the inside of your forearm dropping on a puck or on the back of the leg while you're spread out for a kicksave.  I got a nasty cut on the back of my neck once from that.

[wachin]

Ha! Kicksave... now you're really dating yourself.  Don't you know that no one does those anymore?  It's all butterfly all the time.  But you're right, there is little protection on the backsides for goalies.

Between goalie equipment costs and the amount of money I pour into arcade parts for this hobby, my wife desperately wants me to find something cheaper to occupy my time...

[ChadTower]

Ha! Kicksave... now you're really dating yourself.  Don't you know that no one does those anymore?  It's all butterfly all the time. 

Yeah, it's been 20 years since I put on goalie pads.     Back then the butterfly style hadn't been around all that long.  Some of us had some of Roy's moves but not many had a lot of them.  And there were a lot of coaches out there that didn't even allow it yet.

[Dartful Dodger]

I remember when hockey was a the sport short guys had the advantage in and if you were over 5'9" you were to tall to play.

Now if your under 6 foot you're too small.

Cheer up, you little guys still have the advantage with horse and car racing.

[ChadTower]

You'd be hard pressed to find a major star of almost any era much under 5-10.  Maybe that's just perception?  Even Gretzky is around 6' tall.  Gretzky was really light but not short.

[Dartful Dodger]

6' is short for a modern hockey player.  And these new guys are as heavy as football players.

[ChadTower]

Right, but you could say similar things about every sport.  That's just how people are evolving.

[wachin]

From my perspective, what I think separates hockey from most other sports is how dramatically the game has evolved into what it is today, specifically over the last 20 years or so.  If you take a close look at goaltending (can you tell I'm bias), it is one of the few position in professional sports, if not THE position, that athletes can play totally different from each other and yet still have high degrees of success.  You look at a guy like Brodeur and then you look at a guy like Luongo, and you can see how 2 athletes play the exact same position but in 2 totally different ways.  Can that be said of any other sport? 

Nevermind the fact that NHL goalies have become so good at what they do that the league has to enforce equipment changes to increase scoring (at least in their minds).  What other position in a sports have athletes excelled to the point that the league had to change rules to maintain the "integrity" of the game?

Chad: I totally am nostalgic about old school goaltending.  I remember back in HS almost 20 years ago, the last summer hockey camp I attended had goalie specific drills:  Shuffle to the left, skate save to the left, shuffle right, skate save right, 2 pad slide left, 2 pad slide right.  But now I hardly ever do any of those moves.  Everything is t-pushes, butterfly saves, backside recoveries...

And yes, I blame my 5'7" stature on why I never made it to the NHL...

[Dartful Dodger]

The goalie is different, that's always going to be a big guy.

Chad you've missed my point.

Every sport has a certain type of person that excels in that sport, the people are in better shape but they are still the same type.

The tall skinny guys always excelled in basketball, now they are tall skinny guys with lean muscles, you're not going to see a linebacker playing basketball.

Hockey was a little guys sport(except for the goalie), the lower your center of gravity the better advantage you had.

Now you have to be as big as a house to play hockey.

There are exceptions to any rule, but what I'm trying to say is the "stereo type" in hockey is now the complete opposite.

[Malenko]

I believe Chad had the moves of Patrick Roy about as I believe that player slashed his own goalie on purpose.

They interviewed both players Ballard and Vokoun, one guy said sorry, the other guy forgave him. Yeah lets end this guys career that he's worked so hard for to get to the pro level because he made an innocent mistake. Players break their sticks, especially against the posts, all the time. Big ---smurfing--- deal. You guys are just pissed off because you weren't good enough to make it to be a pro hockey player.

All this talk of where he got hit and how the equipment works, Im sure when you played hockey chad, back in what, 1941? all they had for goalies was the Jason type mask (think Splatter-house) the equipment now DOES protect the entire head for the most part (there is space in the back between the rear head guard and the front mask). The hit was in the front of the mask, just be hind the grill. The cut he was so massively bleeding from ( /sarcasim) was a tiny little cut on his ear where the mask pinched it.  Also, he wont be suspended because he didn't break any rules. Chad cant be banned because he hasnt broken any yet, so there's nothing anyone can do about either thing.

Everyone keeps talking what ifs , what if he hit the other goalie, what if Vokoun was badly hurt, what if Kobe didn't anally rape that girl in Colorado, well none of that is what happened. You cant punish what ifs in any sort of way that is just and fair.

Warren Sapp putting that blind sided ---smurfing--- ---uvula--- hit on Chad Clifton is one thing, trying to break your stick on the post and hitting your goalie is an entirely different ball of wax. Also, basketball sucks. Vokoun got a cut on the ear, Clifton couldn't walk for 5 week; you tell me whats worse



side note, Warren Sapp said he didn't break any rules or do anything wrong and didnt give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that he almost ended a guys carreer; Ballard apologized the same day it happened.

[ChadTower]

Who here has ever claimed what Sapp did was anything but wrong?  It was within the rules but it was a very, very dirty play.  The rules were changed after that and now it would be a penalty.

Breaking your stick on the goal is against the rules.  It's an unsportsmanlike penalty, they just don't call it much for some reason.  They call it at every level except the NHL.

[Malenko]

Who here has ever claimed what Sapp did was anything but wrong?  It was within the rules but it was a very, very dirty play.  The rules were changed after that and now it would be a penalty.

Breaking your stick on the goal is against the rules.  It's an unsportsmanlike penalty, they just don't call it much for some reason.  They call it at every level except the NHL.

Sapp hit someone within the rules, Ballard hit someone within the rules; that was the comparison. So now you're mad he broke his stick? I thought you were mad he hit his goalie on accident.

[ChadTower]

Sapp hit someone within the rules, Ballard hit someone within the rules; that was the comparison. So now you're mad he broke his stick? I thought you were mad he hit his goalie on accident.

Erm... there is nothing within the rules about smashing your stick on the post.  There is nothing within the rules about a slash to the face - the rules do not differentiate between accidental or intentional for high sticking.  That wasn't even during play, it was a dead puck, so the two aren't even close to the same thing on any level.  It's a dick move to slash at the goal like that - injuring a teammate during a dead puck dick move is the type of thing that should bring an internal suspension. 

I have never defended Sapp's hit - it was unnecessary and 30 yards away from the ball.  But comparing something that happened during play to a dead time act doesn't even make sense.

[Malenko]

First off:

Erm... there is nothing within the rules about smashing your stick on the post. 

Breaking your stick on the goal is against the rules.  It's an unsportsmanlike penalty, they just don't call it much for some reason.  They call it at every level except the NHL.

Secondly, your ability to miss the most obvious point is down right amazing.

Johnny hit someone playing football on purpose and hurt the kid really bad, but it wasnt against the rules. Johnny is fine with what he did.

Billy hit somone playing hockey on accident and hurt the kid a little, but it wasnt against the rules. Billy said sorry.

Why chastize the guy for an accident? No ones saying its ok to hit your team mate with a stick, I'm just saying its forgivable.

[ChadTower]

Sure, it is forgivable, once an appropriate punishment is meted out.  Discipline is important.  The image of the team is important.  How the rest of the locker room feels about guys being a problem is important.

Saying a high stick slash is within the rules doesn't make it so.  There is no provision for intent in those rules. 

[Malenko]

Sure, it is forgivable, once an appropriate punishment is meted out.  Discipline is important.  The image of the team is important.  How the rest of the locker room feels about guys being a problem is important.

Saying a high stick slash is within the rules doesn't make it so.  There is no provision for intent in those rules. 

No punishment is needed. Punishment is used to deter someone from breaking the rules; Im sure the fact he hurt his teammate and forever having to live this down is punishment enough. Team image? The panthers are 11-12 this year. The team? They all accepted his appology and he isnt in bad standings with any of them. No one is pissed off at him except him (and you).

I guess your google searches on the subject didnt yeild you the interviews they showed on ESPN last night.

[ChadTower]

Punishment is used to deter someone from breaking the rules; Im sure the fact he hurt his teammate and forever having to live this down is punishment enough.

Disagreed.  Punishment is a deterrent to others as much as it is to the offender.

The team? They all accepted his appology and he isnt in bad standings with any of them. No one is pissed off at him except him (and you).

So you talked to each of them, then?  They were probably instructed by the coach to tell the media it's a closed issue.  I guarantee you there are guys in the locker room that lost respect for the guy.  As a player I would lose respect for a coach that put up with crap like that. 

I guess your google searches on the subject didnt yeild you the interviews they showed on ESPN last night.

Yeah, because you can really trust what people say to reporters.     Things in a locker room stay in a locker room, right?  That's how good teams handle it.  They don't talk to the outside.  I guarantee you if that team has a kangaroo court he is going to face it and they won't be lenient.

[Malenko]

Punishment is used to deter someone from breaking the rules; Im sure the fact he hurt his teammate and forever having to live this down is punishment enough.

Disagreed.  Punishment is a deterrent to others as much as it is to the offender.

Again, you ability to miss the point is borderline magical.  So you feel there will be an outbreak of players hitting their own goalie? Its only the second time its happened as far as I can remember and the first time the goalie got hit in the leg. And that was like 15 years ago when we still had the Norris Division. Yet you really feel the need to make it against the rules and punishable to hit your own goalie with a stick. People like you are the reason for so many pointless laws that should be covered by common sense.

So you talked to each of them, then?  They were probably instructed by the coach to tell the media it's a closed issue.  I guarantee you there are guys in the locker room that lost respect for the guy.  As a player I would lose respect for a coach that put up with crap like that.  

I guess your google searches on the subject didnt yeild you the interviews they showed on ESPN last night.

Yeah, because you can really trust what people say to reporters.    Things in a locker room stay in a locker room, right?  That's how good teams handle it.  They don't talk to the outside.  I guarantee you if that team has a kangaroo court he is going to face it and they won't be lenient.

You are just proving how big of an ---uvula--- you are. The guy made  a mistake and repented for it. If his team mates are good team mates they'll accept the apology and move one. Good teams look out for one another and dont throw their players under the bus because of simple errors in judgement. You are reacting to this as if he decapitated his goalie instead of cutting his ear. Again you are judging it on what could have happened instead of what did.

yeah, I obviously talked to each of them   Im pretty sure the majority of the players if not all of them have accepted it for what it is, an accident. And if they hold a grudge thats a flaw with that player, not the system.

Whats your big gripe with Ballard anyway? Not like he has a rep for being an ---uvula--- or anything

[ChadTower]

Again, you ability to miss the point is borderline magical.

I didn't read the rest of your post.  Just putting that out there.  This comment is all I'm going to address.

You need to work on recognizing the difference between disagreeing with you and not understanding you.  I get what you are saying.  I disagree.  That is fundamentally different from not getting your point.  

I have no use for butting my head up against that wall anymore. 

I also suggest learning to debate without personal attacks.  Dillhole.