Atari 2600 question

[_JMFR]

I've got an old 2600 that i want to put into a custom cab i'm building. I want to hack the controlers, and use my own sticks for the cp. I also want to install the paddles on the cp by attaching the pots. My question is...Is there anyway to connect the paddles and the sticks to the console without without having to unplug one or the other? I may be in over my head on this one, but surely there is a way to connect both at the same time. Both paddles are connected together, and only plug up to the player one slot. I know you can get controller inputs on ebay, just wondering if there is some way to use one to connect both at the same time. Is this possible?

Btw....please dont recommend That i just use emus...I know my options

Any info helps!

[SavannahLion]

Hhmm... never thought of that. Never really had a desire to build something like that for the Atari 2600 since, IMO, the 2600 is a home console, not an arcade.

All opinions aside, according to the pinout schematic, that does seem like a possibility.

The joystick pinout is:
1     WHT  <--     Up
2    BLU    <--    Down
3    GRN    <--    Left
4    BRN    <--    Right
5    n/c    -    Not connected
6    ORG    <--    Button
7    n/c    -    Not connected
8    BLK    ---    Ground(-)
9    n/c    -    Not connected

The paddle pinout (different source) is:
1    NC
2    NC
3    2P Fire
4    1P Fire
5    1P Paddle (X-axis)
6    NC
7    +5v (pot common)
8    Ground
9    2P Paddle (X-axis)

As you can see pins 5, 7, and 9 are unused on the joystick, but used by the paddles. The only pins that are shared are 3 and 4 for the Left/Right <-> Fire1/Fire2 controls. Wiring multiple buttons that way is trivial.
   
However, while it seems mechanically possible to merge the controllers since their pinouts don't seem to interfere, I have no idea how any of the games might react to accidental inputs. For instance if a drunk buddy decides to push up on the joystick while you're playing a paddle game. Or whether a joystick game might react to input from the paddle.

I say give it a shot and see how the games react, just don't kill off an old joystick or paddle to do it.

[_JMFR]

I figured the best way to do this would be to toggle between controls...What would be the best way to do that? If possible Pinballjim, is there anyway you could get some pics of your friends set up?

Thanks guys

[_JMFR]

interesting..ill let you know. Seeing as the buttons for the directionals and fire are direct, could i just use a replacement atari joystick cable, and wire it directly to my joysticks and pushbuttons? This would be easier, and i wouldnt hafta kill another classic stick

[_JMFR]

http://www.atarirevolution.com/atari-cx40-joystick-controller-wire-harne40.html

something like this to specify. Id probably go ahead and hack a pair of paddles. I got 2 sets

[SavannahLion]

If you get a bare harness, make sure all the pins are there. IIRC, on my joystick, pins 5, 7 & 9 are simply not there. Doesn't make sense to waste wire you're not going to use anyways.

The 9 pin plug is bone standard. it appeared in hundreds of products. So if the stock 2600 cable doesn't stock a full compliment of wires, you'll most certainly find a serial cable that does.

side note: I did find the plastic 2600 connectors seem to be "bowed" just a smidgen, about a mm on each side. Plugging a plastic plug into a metal jack tends to shave off the plastic on either side. Not sure if it's just a property of the plastic 

As for the interference, I've got a few ideas but it seems PBJ has a grip on it. I'll let him do the typing.

[missioncontrol]

couldn't an serial RS-232 switch work?

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Male-1-Fem-DB9-Serial-RS-232-2way-AB-Switch-Box-RS232_W0QQitemZ120487758595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0da14b03

[ChadTower]

This would be easier, and i wouldnt hafta kill another classic stick

Test it all out with Genesis pads.  Or some beaten to crap third party 2600 sticks.  I might even have some chewed up sticks I have been saving for parts if you want.

[missioncontrol]

_JMFR, are you planning on using two sets of paddles on your CP so you can have 4 people playing Warlords?

[ChadTower]

And how about driving controllers?  They look the same but are not - the driving controllers are optical and are not restricted like the paddles are.

[SavannahLion]

couldn't an serial RS-232 switch work?

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Male-1-Fem-DB9-Serial-RS-232-2way-AB-Switch-Box-RS232_W0QQitemZ120487758595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0da14b03

The way the 2600 is wired, a simple DPST or DPDT switch would suffice. Might even get away with using a SPDT or even a SPST switch but I don't know how well that might work.

Any of those switches would be 25 cents or so. 50 cents at rat shack.

Only advantage a $13 box would offer is a no solder solution.

[_JMFR]

_JMFR, are you planning on using two sets of paddles on your CP so you can have 4 people playing Warlords?

I wasnt planning on it. It seems likes 4 paddles would make the cp tooo crowded. But it's something to consider. Do most paddle games offer a 4 player option?

[_JMFR]

This would be easier, and i wouldnt hafta kill another classic stick

Test it all out with Genesis pads.  Or some beaten to crap third party 2600 sticks.  I might even have some chewed up sticks I have been saving for parts if you want.

That would be awesome Chad! I let you know as soon as I get the cab done, and a good gameplan for the design.

[_JMFR]

couldn't an serial RS-232 switch work?

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Male-1-Fem-DB9-Serial-RS-232-2way-AB-Switch-Box-RS232_W0QQitemZ120487758595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0da14b03

That would be sweet if would work. Any ideas folks? I could even use 2, and do 4 paddles on the cp.

[_JMFR]

couldn't an serial RS-232 switch work?

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Male-1-Fem-DB9-Serial-RS-232-2way-AB-Switch-Box-RS232_W0QQitemZ120487758595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0da14b03

The way the 2600 is wired, a simple DPST or DPDT switch would suffice. Might even get away with using a SPDT or even a SPST switch but I don't know how well that might work.

Any of those switches would be 25 cents or so. 50 cents at rat shack.

Only advantage a $13 box would offer is a no solder solution.

That 13 dollar box would look sweet in the cab though

[_JMFR]

And how about driving controllers?  They look the same but are not - the driving controllers are optical and are not restricted like the paddles are.

What drive controls are you talking about chad?

[ChadTower]

They look like paddles but are actually optical spinners and have no restriction on spinning.  Think of them like a Pole Position steering wheel or a Tempest spinner.

[missioncontrol]

And how about driving controllers?  They look the same but are not - the driving controllers are optical and are not restricted like the paddles are.

but there's only like 2 games that use the driver paddles

[missioncontrol]

_JMFR, are you planning on using two sets of paddles on your CP so you can have 4 people playing Warlords?

I wasnt planning on it. It seems likes 4 paddles would make the cp tooo crowded. But it's something to consider. Do most paddle games offer a 4 player option?

Warlords is the only 4 player game that comes to mind, but it's usually a hit at parties where I break out the 2600. I would think putting paddles to the left and right of each player would work well and not take up too much space.

[ChadTower]

but there's only like 2 games that use the driver paddles

I'm pretty sure all of the 2600 racing games support them as well as a few undocumented ones you wouldn't expect.

[missioncontrol]

but there's only like 2 games that use the driver paddles

I'm pretty sure all of the 2600 racing games support them as well as a few undocumented ones you wouldn't expect.

I thought they only worked with Indy 500 and the Tele-games version of Indy 500

[ChadTower]

I could be wrong, of course, as I haven't busted mine out in many years now.

It's certainly a controller you could live without.  Probably on the same importance as a second set of paddles, maybe a little less.

[missioncontrol]

I know they don't work with Night Driver and from my understanding only worked with the two games (well same game just renamed for Sears). I do agree they could be left off, but would not equate them to the same importance as a second set of paddles. Out of the many times I have my Atari out, I get plenty of requests for 4 player Warlords, I've never had anyone ask to play Indy 500.

[Ed_McCarron]

_JMFR, are you planning on using two sets of paddles on your CP so you can have 4 people playing Warlords?

I wasnt planning on it. It seems likes 4 paddles would make the cp tooo crowded. But it's something to consider. Do most paddle games offer a 4 player option?

Warlords is the only 4 player game that comes to mind, but it's usually a hit at parties where I break out the 2600. I would think putting paddles to the left and right of each player would work well and not take up too much space.

Video Olympics.

As for accidental inputs, FrontLine locks up if you hit left and right at the same time, so I'm sure other games do, too.  Wasn't there a glitch where you pressed straight in on the stick to cheat some game?

[missioncontrol]

one option you could go with that I've been toying with the idea of is building a replica kiosk

[ChadTower]

I used to know a dude who had one of those.  It took up half a room.  Really, really not worth it! 

[missioncontrol]

there could be slight modifications to make it not as wide

[danny_galaga]

And how about driving controllers?  They look the same but are not - the driving controllers are optical and are not restricted like the paddles are.

I've done a heap of research into this for an Atari Jaguar hack, and I'm pretty sure the driving controllers use mechanical encoders, not optical. No big deal, just thought i'd point it out (",)

[ChadTower]

I've done a heap of research into this for an Atari Jaguar hack, and I'm pretty sure the driving controllers use mechanical encoders, not optical. No big deal, just thought i'd point it out (",)

Could be.  I had always just assumed optical since it seems like the way to go.