Author Topic: I'm about to buy BALLY PAC MAN PINBALL MACHINE (Read 10739 times)

mimic · « **on:** November 08, 2009, 12:25:22 pm »

For $250.00 one flipper is not woking is it worth it?

mimic · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2009, 04:55:06 pm »

It doesn't matter I bought it. It looks like it's going to be quite a challange, as it's not in very good shape. I'm gonna be visiting now often this forums as I've got tons of questions.

mimic · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2009, 07:02:26 pm »

It is Mr & Mrs pacman

I'm reading the service manual. Machine is still in the van need someone to help me unload.
I was trying to find any kind of converation about this pinball on these forums, but couldn't so far.

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2009, 08:24:11 pm »

Where are you located? Someone here on the forums might be able to help out with the unload. Glad it is a Mr. & Mrs. Pacman. Baby-Pacman's were to un-pinball. The focus was to back and forth between video up here and playfield down there. Don't get me wrong on the idea of video in pinball (I like the idea of P2K), but that game just wasn't done very well at all.

mimic · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2009, 11:14:18 pm »

I brought the damn thing home by myself (I'm going to feel it in my back tommorow.) I plugged it in and here is what's the problem. Left flipper when pressed gets stuck in up position, on top of that if I hold the push button it starts to smoke! I can manualy force the flipper back down, it seems as the plastic part that moves up and down on a piston or metal shaft (for lack of better words) gets jammed. I'm thinking if some kind of lubrications would be enough to make it work correctly?

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2009, 06:13:49 am »

Sounds like a melted flipper coil. Dealt with those before with games on location. Sounds like EOS switch is out of alignment to cause that. The coil IF melted is garbage.

mimic · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2009, 07:45:26 pm »

Quote from: Pinball Wizard on November 09, 2009, 06:13:49 am

Sounds like a melted flipper coil. Dealt with those before with games on location. Sounds like EOS switch is out of alignment to cause that. The coil IF melted is garbage.

I called one number that I know sells pinball machines in my place (WPB) and he said he would sell me the part for $15 + Tax, is that fair? Or can I buy it for much less online/ebay? Also where can purchase cheaply Wildcat #125 solution? It's recommended in the service manual by Bally.

I'm about to try to remove that part myself see how dificult it is. One important question though, is there any part of pinball that is dangerous while machine is unplugged from power?

mimic · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2009, 09:32:00 pm »

Why would there be a burn mark on the wood where the mechanism is attached with 1/4 hex screws. something not grounded or wires touching?

mimic · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:36:41 pm »

I'm trying to take that thing (I don't know the proper name for it, coil?) underneath the flipper off. I unscrewed 4 silver 1/4 hex screws and loosen screw with allen wrench that goes through steel ring, but I can't pull the whole thing off and I don't want to force it.

Which fuse has been replaced and where?

Btw thx for the pinball repair web site very interesting although long read, and I'm impatient! Just want to fire it up play few games and get it out of my system, and then take it easy

mimic · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:12:56 pm »

I just replaced the flipper coil, but I've got a problem, either I lost something or I don't know how to reasemble the thing. After inserting flipper shaft backinto the flipper paw? (The steel ring) flipper is wobly and I can't get it to stay at certain height (the whole thing with EOS mechanism just drops down). I think there probably should be some kind of bushing underneath, but I didn't notice anything falling from under the flipper, so I'm lost as to what I'm missing, or doing wrong.

Btw flipper coil was very tight and I couldn't remove the sleeve and shaft was jamming.

mimic · « **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:48:29 pm »

Ok, found the bushing fell down and went under a piece of wood. I used mirror inside to find it. Connected everything, fired up machine, pressed push button while looking inside, just in case and saw a green flash and some lights went dead along with flippers not responding, either side. Looks like the flash came from around where some kind of fuses are... Help?

Edit: Just replugged the machine. Nothing lights up except for backglass, the whole playfield is dead and very weak light under first digit of every display. Self test also does not respond, yikes!

StephenH · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2009, 12:42:22 am »

Here is some technical info for your pinball system that might help you:

http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index1.htm

mimic · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2009, 05:14:30 pm »

Quote from: pinballjim on November 11, 2009, 09:17:24 am

StephenH strikes again, with a link that's already been posted!

There was no striking there. I appreciate that StephenH posted the link directly to the section dealing with my machine, but I found it right after you posted the link 1st time. I'm asking questions in hope someone can help with a specific problem rather than read through the whole thing that 90% does not apply to what's happening right now. It's like you would want me to learn how to repair entire car, while all I want is to change oil.
For example PinballWizard was right on the money with the coil and EOS, I replaced that and soemthing else happend, maybe someone has some idea or eperience with that situation and can point me directly to the problem without going through a lenghty process.

mimic · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2009, 07:23:16 pm »

Just made another discovery there is more stuff behind the backglass (maybe there is a problem? Blown fuse or something), but there is a lock on top and I don't have a key for it, how to rape the lock, without damaging anything?

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2009, 04:08:03 pm »

Where exactly was the lock for the backbox on this again? If it is like Centuar (like this) I would just drill it out but slowly. Even if it is on top you should be able to drill it out. If it is on the front attached to a metal plate (like apollo 13) then it has security bits on it that you could take out and the lock with come out.

Jeff AMN · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2009, 03:36:32 pm »

Quote from: mimic on November 11, 2009, 05:14:30 pm

Quote from: pinballjim on November 11, 2009, 09:17:24 am
StephenH strikes again, with a link that's already been posted!

There was no striking there. I appreciate that StephenH posted the link directly to the section dealing with my machine, but I found it right after you posted the link 1st time. I'm asking questions in hope someone can help with a specific problem rather than read through the whole thing that 90% does not apply to what's happening right now. It's like you would want me to learn how to repair entire car, while all I want is to change oil.
For example PinballWizard was right on the money with the coil and EOS, I replaced that and soemthing else happend, maybe someone has some idea or eperience with that situation and can point me directly to the problem without going through a lenghty process.

Dude...it's best to read up on everything about your machine, even if you only have what you think is a "single problem". Pins are very complicated and a single symptom can indicate a variety of issues. Understanding general repair is important, even if you feel you're only addressing something that's very specific.

Jim is smart about this stuff, I'd go easy on lashing out when there are already so few that are active on this part of the forum to begin with.

mimic · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:05:35 pm »

Lashing out? C'mon "we" are not that sensitive here, right? That was hardly anywhere near lashing out. All I'm asking, for people to give me a little more help (if they can of course) than just pointing to links, that's what this board is about isn't it? Btw as to reading the whole thing, guess what... I DID IT! And I'm still at the same point I was before reading. Unfortunately I was unable to find info that would apply to my problem at the moment.

Right now here is what's happening (for those that recognize the problem and can help.) Machine boots up fine. Passes self test (7 flashes) right flippers works fine, but the left one, does nothing and then blows up a fuse on the rectifier board at F4 (5 amps +43V) if I hold it little longer. That's after replacing flipper coil with a new one. I have checked and rechecked if connected everything right, and it seems everything is same way as on the old one. Btw old coil would energize the flipper in up position and then it would stay there, fuse would not blow up (but it was 7 amp, that blew after my new coil install) but it was buzzing and smoking.

Btw why is there so many burn marks everywhere? I look at pictures of other board under the playfield and see nothing like it. All the wires, Aux board, Solenoid driver have residue like something was burning. It's only in the part closer towards coin doors.

mimic · « **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:47:44 pm »

Quote from: Pinball Wizard on November 12, 2009, 04:08:03 pm

Where exactly was the lock for the backbox on this again? If it is like Centuar (like this) I would just drill it out but slowly. Even if it is on top you should be able to drill it out. If it is on the front attached to a metal plate (like apollo 13) then it has security bits on it that you could take out and the lock with come out.

I forgot to mention that I just jammed flat screw driver and forced it to one of the sides, just enough to get the back glass out.

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:04:04 pm »

Quote from: mimic on November 13, 2009, 08:47:44 pm

Quote from: Pinball Wizard on November 12, 2009, 04:08:03 pm
Where exactly was the lock for the backbox on this again? If it is like Centuar (like this) I would just drill it out but slowly. Even if it is on top you should be able to drill it out. If it is on the front attached to a metal plate (like apollo 13) then it has security bits on it that you could take out and the lock with come out.

I forgot to mention that I just jammed flat screw driver and forced it to one of the sides, just enough to get the back glass out.

AHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Please tell me you didn't let the WHOLE lock spin in the wood??? I hate getting a game where someone took the whole lock and spun it to do that, damaging all the wood in its path. If it was a lock where the pins where removed (I'll do that on games until I get a bulk lock order together) and just turned what is supposed to then I guess that is okay.

mimic · « **Reply #19 on:** November 13, 2009, 10:47:49 pm »

ooops that's precisely what I did, but I don't see any damage whatsoever, next time I won't take any chance though, now that I know.

Some pictures to maybe take a look and help solve the problem.

First picture: new coil is green, and the wiring is the same as in the last picture (old coil brown.) Supposedly coil is same as well?

Middle picture, opposite coil, why does it have 4 blades and not 2?

mimic · « **Reply #20 on:** November 16, 2009, 11:54:34 pm »

Making some kind of progress (I think) I wrongly assumed that just because it passes test that means it works + I didn't understand self test properly (still don't fully) I tested solenoid board and all transistors, everything checked out fine, but when I ground one side of the wire and then touch the tabs on the transistors none of the flipper coils "fire", same with the self test, when it runs through all of the coils, none of the flipper coils "fire" (even though I can operate the right side) and a light at the aux solenoid board starts to flash and I hear loud clicking. Also coil from the coin door also doesn't "fire".
Weirdly I can operate left push button when in pac man maze, but I 'm guessing it just goes to different part of electronics, and has nothing to do with flipper coils.

Any ideas what I can check or do?

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:55:55 pm »

Is this a Baby Pac-man or a Mr. & Mrs. Pacman? Your title says Bally Pac-Man, and before you said it was a Mr. Mrs. Pacman but now your talking about going through a pacman maze.

mimic · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:34:41 pm »

Quote from: Pinball Wizard on November 17, 2009, 04:55:55 pm

Is this a Baby Pac-man or a Mr. & Mrs. Pacman? Your title says Bally Pac-Man, and before you said it was a Mr. Mrs. Pacman but now your talking about going through a pacman maze.

It is Mr. & Mrs. Pacman, maze is made out of lights on the playfield (I just called it a maze)

Pinball Wizard · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:08:12 pm »

Okay, thought you were referring to the monitor-based Baby Pacman when you said maze.

You are correct to assume that the flipper buttons go through different circuits in the game to control motion of the "maze" lights and the flippers. When you push the flipper button it will trigger a relay on a specific flipper coil board. IIRC the self-test shouldn't make the flippers actually move but instead it triggers the transistor that triggers a coil that triggers the flippers. I maybe crossing my knowledge of Williams with Bally since they were still separate companies at the time of your game.

mimic · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:12:39 pm »

here is what I'm thinking of doing tell me if this is crazy. I'm thinking of running new wire from the pin that connects on the solenoid board (if I can figure out which pin is that) to fuse that I think is for those coils and then to the coil + a new wire for ground to ground source, just to see if this will work? I'm assuming that each wire that goes from the board goes to each coil or a bank of coils.

shardian · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2009, 08:22:12 am »

If I read you right, you've had your answer and you have described the exact same problem still happening. Your End of Stroke switch on that flipper is messed up. Here is a crash course on flipper operation:

When you hit the button, High power is delivered to the coil. If you hold the flipper in, the end of stroke switch is opened up. Only a small amount of power is needed to hold the flipper in the up position, so the end of stroke switch will cut the power in half.

What happens if the EOS switch is misadjusted and not opening? Hi power will remain in the coil while the coil is raised. This will quickly burn up the coil, blow a fuse, destroy the driving transistor, etc. So go back to your flipper, and look closely as you manually manipulate the shaft. Compare what you see to the working flipper. you will notice the EOS switch open on the working flipper. Odds are it is not opening on the bad flipper.

As to why there are two switches stacked on the right flipper, that is how the upper playfield flipper is controlled.

EDIT: I re-read, and it appears you are saying the flipper doesn't move at all when you hold the button, but the fuse still blows. That's odd.

mimic · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2009, 07:52:56 pm »

Quote from: pinballjim on November 18, 2009, 09:45:33 am

Quote from: shardian on November 18, 2009, 08:22:12 am
EDIT: I re-read, and it appears you are saying the flipper doesn't move at all when you hold the button, but the fuse still blows. That's odd.

That'll happen if your flipper coil is shorted out.

That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know how to verify that when I replaced the coil, I have wired properly. I did one wire at a time, to not make a mistake, but I could tell that old coil was replaced once and perhaps wiring was messed up already. Also someone told me there should always(?) be 3 wires on one of the coil lugs, while I only have 2 on that particular one.

One more question why self test bypasses testing flipper coils, even the good ones?

mimic · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2009, 05:24:40 pm »

For anyone that might stumble upon this thread, just wanted to let everyone know that I have fixed the machine. With help from guys from pinballcountry.com (hopefully no one minds the plug, if so please let me know and I'll edit)

mimic · « **Reply #28 on:** January 01, 2010, 11:43:02 am »

Quote from: pinballjim on December 18, 2009, 05:28:06 pm

What was the fix?

The little diodes on the coil were bad, replacing those fixed the problem of fuse being blown at F4.

shardian · « **Reply #29 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:51:29 pm »

Diode was bad on a brand new coil? Man, that is a real drag! I know I would probably tear apart every piece of the cab before I bothered to check a diode on a new coil...

Jeff AMN · « **Reply #30 on:** January 05, 2010, 06:31:38 pm »

Quote from: shardian on January 05, 2010, 01:51:29 pm

Diode was bad on a brand new coil? Man, that is a real drag! I know I would probably tear apart every piece of the cab before I bothered to check a diode on a new coil...

They're pretty fragile, so I always give them a test. Of course I only do so these days because I've overlooked that issue before...


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