Help understanding Monitor Differences ...

[kronic24601]

Ok So, I have narrowed my search for a montior down to 2 possible selections.

1) Makvision Tri Sync
2) Neiman Displays Tri Sync.

I am leaning toward the Neiman Displays, but I have some questions about the comparison I'm hoping someone can help me with.

I am planning on either a soft 15 hrz or an ArcadeVGA2 card.

Am I correct in assuming that both monitors (because they are tri syn) can switch their resolution to the correct resolution for the individual MAME game? I was told this is how the Makvision monitor works, but am confused if this is also how the Neiman Display works. Reading the spec sheet of the Neiman Display (http://niemandisplays.com/nvd%203m%20spec%20electrical%20spec%20sheet.pdf) I states 3 resolutions (560x240, 640x350, 640x480) Is that the only resolutions they use? Or am I misunderstanding something? It says it will switch between 15K, 24K, & 31K Automatically, but does that allow it to display the odd resolutions found in MAME? (I'm seriously confused.)

I really would like to go with the Neiman Display if it works the way "I think" for MAME. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.

[kronic24601]

Ok, so I just heard back from Rick, this is an email he responded to me.

Yes the monitor will switch automatically. But ours and Makvisions have analog controls, in other words adjustment pots/ rotary controls.

Either ours or Makvision's will require you to adjust size, and position as well as other controls when you switch between resolutions.

That is why I recommend using a normal video card that ca do 640X480 and leaving it there.

BTW, no problem, please ask all the questions you want... that is why we are here.

thanks again

Rick

My question to all you MAME'rs, especially the ones who use ARCADEVGA or SOFT 15hrz, is ... what are you doing? Do you set your card and leave it at 640x480, or do you use a different monitor that uses digital switching?

[Jack Burton]

I hate 640x480.  I think it is a waste of a perfectly good arcade monitor.  The whole point of having a multisync monitor is to be able to handle multiple resolutions.  If you are going to just leave it at 640x480 you should buy a 31khz, or VGA, monitor and be done with it.  They are usually cheaper than a full multi-sync.

Additionally you don't need soft 15khz or an arcadeVGA if you just want to run  in 640x480.  Just about any video card made in the last 20 years will support 640x480 and you can just select it from your video modes under your display adapter in Windows XP.

I set MAME to make my graphics card switch resolutions to whatever game I happen to be playing at the time.  This way I always get native resolutions, which look better than anything else.

With an analog monitor this means that the image will get shifted around a bit between resolutions.  That does not mean the game will be unplayable.  In fact, you may not even have to adjust it at all. 

There will be an optimal setting that will work best across multiple games.  Some game may not fill the whole screen, and others make have some of the screen cut off, but they will mostly all be playable.

Additionally, you can use software to adjust the placement of your screen.  MAME has slider controls that allow you adjust the placement of the screen somewhat, and Advancemame has even more options.

I have a multisync monitor.  It remembers 3 resolutions.  Every time I switch to a third resolution I have to resize the screen.  The controls are right on the front of the monitor, and it takes me maybe 1 minute to get it right.  If I did a quick job I could do it in 15 seconds.   I don't mind this at all and gladly take the inconvenience to get the image quality of native resolutions.

Both of those monitors come with a little control board you can put somewhere on your cab.  Most people put them right underneath the monitor behind the control panel. 

[kronic24601]

@ Jack

So what monitor do you use. I go emails back from both companies saying there is no memory for any of the settings. You mentioned yours can save 3 settings. Do you have a Wells Gardner? I know the 9800 is digital, instead of analog, but wasn't certain it had memory capability.

I just really don't want to pay $500 for a monitor than I have to keep adjusting each game a I play. It would almost be better to go LCD (...shudder...).

[Jack Burton]

I use a professional video monitor.  It's a Mitsubishi AM-3501R.  It is a digital multi-sync.




In reality I think it remembers more than 3 resolutions.  It remembers video settings for progressive and interlaced over the RGB connection.  It also remembers the setting for the S-video connection.  I'm guessing it will remember 2 settings for each input.  

But that is all irrelevant to your cause.  This monitor would be nearly impossible to put in a cab, and is too large.

There is the NEC XM29.  It is a  smaller monitor very similar to mine.  If you are building your own cab it is worth investigating.  You could put into your cab still in it's case.  

The best part is that these monitor scan be found very cheaply sometimes.  If you can find one around your area for $50 or less it's worth getting just to try it out.  You'll have to try ebay, craiglist, and surplus auctions.  I got mine from the University of Kentucky Surplus auction.

[Ummon]

Digital means it has memory.

[Jack Burton]

Indeed.  Just because a monitor is a multisync does not mean it is digital.

Also, digital monitor does not equal digital video.  They are completely separate things. Every monitor mentioned in this thread is only capable of accepting analog signals.

[kronic24601]

hmmm ... I see. It is a lot of interesting information trying to discover what will be best for Mame purposed cabs.

I found that Makvision & Neiman Displays (the Tri-syncs) since they are both analog, they do not have any memory settings, so each time a game would require a switch, you would have to make adjustments. I'm assuming that people are just finding one setting that seems optimal for "most games". I still have heard great things about these monitors, but I haven't gotten too much opinion from people using them in a mame machine while switching resolutions.

In contrast, Wells Gardner (9800 for example) is a digital monitor, Andy at Ultimarc mentioned that they should have memory...

Jack, I'll take a closer look at the NEC XM29, thanks for that.

[OverRide]

This is the same decision I am fighting with right now. I want the best/original looking resolution but having to change geometry every other game seems like a pain. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but my wife and friends will be playing it a lot and keeping it as simple for them is key.
I recently saw MAME running in a cab with a medium res monitor. The few games I tested look pretty nice, both horizontal and vertical (with the monitor in horizontal position). I guess it's hard to tell until you see them side by side.
I really want to try a standard res monitor before deciding. I plan on buying something used. Can at least resell it if it doesn't do the trick.
Good luck and let us know what you figure out.

[Jack Burton]

Last night I decided to play the devils advocate to myself and see how good I could get things to look in 640x480.

One difference I immediately noticed is that 640x480 is noticeably brighter than most native resolutions!

I guess since the scanlines are smaller on 640x480 more of the screen is being used for luminosity.  

My best efforts at making Super Street Fighter II Turbo (my favorite game) look good resulted in it looking just like the console versions.  Very soft looking, but certainly very playable.  If you didn't know what it looked like naturally you wouldn't know what you were missing.

I also tried playing games in 25khz just for kicks.  The effect was surprisingly playable.  There were not nearly as many scaling artifacts as I expected, although the video was kind of  blurry.  

If you're building a cab that is an all-encompassing, play everything cab, and you want strangers to be able to play it, then maybe a single resolution is best.

I'm not so sure that res is 640x480 though.  Most MAME games run at 15khz.  IF you could set-up a monitor for that, and have the 31khz games use interlaced modes I think it might be better.  

[Ummon]

Noooooo. It's simple. You want original, go native res. Simple as that.

You want convenience, go with a VGA monitor - and add effects or not, depending.

If you want ultra convenience and totally don't care, go with an LCD.


And all the monitors I've used are brightest at 15khz.