Playfield Development

[Pinball Wizard]

Looking at the previews for Tilt (I really need to buy it, been sitting on the edge for 2-3 years) you can see some software they use for playfield development that even includes the footprint of the parts. Any possibility that there is a software that I could use for myself that would work in that similar way? Been working on ideas in my head for awhile and just having problems getting the vision into a real design.

[drventure]

Have you looked at Visual Pinball or Future Pinball?

They both have playfield designers built in. might not be the same as a CAD package for developing a "real" table, but they're free, and pretty dang good.

[Pinball Wizard]

Might give it a try. Forgot it completely. Maybe I'll find some good methods in it to develop good.

[drventure]

If you put together any custom tables, be sure to post back so we can try them out!

And be sure to grab a few tables out there. Looking at the script and table design can help get you up to speed very quickly. All the tables (as far as I know) will actually load right into the designer so you can examine how they were built/scripted

[Xiaou2]

Not sure what this Tilt software is.   But no cad / physics program is going to
be accurate to the real components.  (unless maybe it takes 3 days of calculations to
show one 5 min rendering, and even them may be off) 

 Something you design one way... will play completely different in real life...
thus defeating the purpose.

 I believe the best original designers simply started dropping parts down and testing
how the ball flowed.   Tweaking here and there.. until there was a very good
playing game.

 After which,  art, theme, etc... were added.

[Jeff AMN]

I don't think any special software was being shown in Tilt, but rather an animation of the ideas unfolding. They showed basically some simple conventions about pinball design, such as where the ball should go after being plunged. To me it just looked like they made an animation out of CAD drawings.

Future Pinball is pretty awesome. You can create some really nice playing tables on there. I'm really surprised at the quality of tables that come out of people just plugging away in their basements. If pinball was still a big industry, some of those Future Pinball designers could definitely make a case for getting a job as a designer.

As for the process, art and theme can come in at various points in development. In some cases theme is presented far before any layout begins, at other times it comes after. For some games, like Jurassic Park, they started as one game (Star Wars) and ended up being something else (JP).

From what I understand, most designers have conventions they like to obey and then they iterate designs from those conventions. George Gomez likes delivering the ball to a skill shot which places the ball at the top of the table. Other designers like the ball to launch to a skill shot and then end up at one of two flippers.

[Pinball Wizard]

Not sure what this Tilt software is.   But no cad / physics program is going to
be accurate to the real components.  (unless maybe it takes 3 days of calculations to
show one 5 min rendering, and even them may be off) 

 Something you design one way... will play completely different in real life...
thus defeating the purpose.

 I believe the best original designers simply started dropping parts down and testing
how the ball flowed.   Tweaking here and there.. until there was a very good
playing game.

 After which,  art, theme, etc... were added.

Tilt, is a movie about Pinball 200 and Williams decline. Check it out here: http://tilt-movie.com/. In the second preview it talks about pinball development.

[Xiaou2]

 Ahh, Tilt... I recall seeing an interview about it.   Lots of misinformation and outright
lies too.  Too many people with big egos to admit things..  and others who are fearful
to speak up.

 And Yup, that was just a cad style animation.

 After the pinball playfeild is finalized... they probably do an accurate Cad drawing from
a playfeild scan.   Thus then can get the other feilds routed and drilled to the exact
same spec.

 I can tell you that as a designer myself... I could start out with a theme as well.  But
I would never just draw out the entire playfeild layout based on that theme.
It would probably play very horribly if I did that.   

 You might be able to get away with dropping down a few themed assemblies... but
even then... you probably will have to move them a little here and there to adjust
for better angles.   

 If the shot is nearly impossible to make (pure luck)... it may completely discourage even the best players.  If all the shots are too easy..  it may make the game to boring, thus no
real reason/incentive to play at all.


 I played Sterns new Indiana Jones machine twice.  The ball launcher managed to drain the ball right down the center of the feild, giving me no chance (unless I really wanted to
risk a tilt)  to recover.   It managed to do that not once... but maybe about 4 times
in those 2 games.  This is a very poor design trait... which if the machine was tested
much more thoroughly, would have been fixed before it got anywhere near production.

 Well, the 2 plays were generous.  I figured Id be fair in my review though... and make
sure it was just as bad as I thought.  And yup, it was.   Dismal.  >.<


 Pinball 2000 was a Horrible idea btw.  Scrapping good pinball gameplay
(the monitor takes up too much valuable playfeild space) and complexity for cheezy
and expensive to produce animations... was a very very bad idea.

[Jeff AMN]

I don't know, I thought that Tilt seemed pretty straightforward. They owned up to their mistakes, such as not getting Episode 1 out on time, not allowing the Ep. 1 design team to interact with other employees, and that the cost hike was all a bad idea. Pin2k could have succeeded, but the SW: Ep. 1 failure sunk the platform.

I'm not the biggest pin2k fan, but I think Revenge From Mars was at least interesting, and by all accounts Wizard Blocks looks like it would have been a really good game. I'd like to own a RFM, mostly for the novelty of it, but I never really enjoyed it too much back when it was on location.

IJ4 isn't that great of a game, but the ball draining straight down the middle seems like it must have been set up with it leaning to one side too much. I played the game for an hour straight at a local operator's showroom a few weeks back and it never did it to me even once, but they're very particular about how they set up their games. I had this issue with my Twilight Zone recently, but some leveling fixed it.

[Xiaou2]

Pin2k could have succeeded, but the SW: Ep. 1 failure sunk the platform

 Clearly you do not understand Pinball very well.

 If you take your favorite games... rip out a huge section of the playfeilds toys and
ramps... and then install a few sensors at targets...   You have then Destroyed the
very game you loved.

 Remember Hyperball?   Even that is more fun, exciting, and most
importantly CHALLENGING  than a Pin2k machine.   You simply cant take 1/3 +  of a
playfeild and turn it into a video player with sensors.   Its STUPIDITY.   Id rather play some old EM machine that a pin2k.
 

 Revenge from Mars was a horrible movie, and same as a pin.  The pin is a snorefest
as far as challenge goes.  Same easy, boring, crappy shots over and over again.
The video does very little to make this less painful.  The whole experience get old in
5 min time.

 If people want to play Video games... thats what they do.  If they want pinball,
they probably play video games instead... because their favorite machine has
something Broken on it.  THAT was the problem with pinball.  They simply did not
engineer them to withstand the arcade level abuses well enough.   If they
had... pinball would still be Thriving  "On-Route", today.

 

IJ4 isn't that great of a game

    Finally, the Stern Lover cracks?  heh

 The game looked and played very level.  I didnt have one on me, but I do have
a very good eye (pencil artist).  Ive leveled feilds by eye and tension to almost perfection without a level.  And one can tell when a game isnt level... as the ball tends to drift in certain unwanted directions.

 If anything, its very possible the one you played was un-level... causing the ball to land
near a flipper - rather than drain it.   Its also possible that due to your machines
coil strength being lower, (from wear / dirt.. etc)    that it didnt have the power to
do what the one I played did. 

 If you look... you can see the outside lane pretty much draws a path right to the
center between the flippers.  Imop, its a cheap-shot money eater gimmick.  An intentional
way to get a persons game over with quickly.   Sorta like LOTR's cheapo
left side drain.

 Its somewhat expected that there is at least one shot that is a risk to attempt
in a game.  However... in Sterns IJ... the Auto ball launcher is making that choice
for you... and also.. its the fricken main loop of the game !  >.<    The stupidity
never ceases to amaze me.

 I think they must have thought that Theme alone would save that game.
I doubt there will ever be re-issues of that game.  heh

[Jeff AMN]

Eh, I wouldn't call myself a Stern lover in the least. I'll just play a good game when it's made, and Stern has made some good ones. LOTR, TSPP, and Spider-Man are all great, if you ask me. The rest of their stuff is either just ok or not so great.